What happens when we die?

[Sand Dancer]

If the "wages of sin is death" (Rom 6.23) why are we resurrected? For there is a "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous" (Acts 24.15). Is it so we can "all stand before the judgement seat of God" (Rom 14.10), and if so, why would we want to when we have already died for our sins? And also, if God can "destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" (Mt10.28) and if that is what the resurrection is about, why does he resurrect the soul when he already knows the body? And if the soul has it made clear what the facts are, why would it defy and die? And why stand before his judgement seat anyway considering we are "judged already" (Jh3.18- normally says 'condemned'). And if the body dies through sin and therefore judgement, why judge the soul. Is it that the body is judged and dies? and then the soul the second death? (Rev) But if that is complete destruction, how then is Christ, "the saviour of the world" (Jh4.42) and also it says of God, "will have all mankind(anthropos) saved" (1Tim2.4) Surely if the Christ is the Saviour of the world, he will save it and therefore all mankind is saved. But how then do they die? The soul must survive if the body dies in order that "all mankind" is saved. Yet we know he can destroy "body and soul", so does this mean there are many levels of soul, or perhaps there is a deeper self to the person.
Yet (1Pet2.11) says that worldly passions in the body "war against the soul". In (Jms5.20) turning someone from their sins will "save a soul from death" which fits the lords words and Gehenna. It is appointed that "all mankind shall die once and then face judgement" (Heb9.27). The lord himself says that if you "lose your soul" you will "save it" (Lk9.24) the Greek often rendered as destroy and not "lose". Thus now it seems that the destroying of the soul will save the soul. Is this the same soul we speak of? And though Peter spoke to many and could have therefore been speaking in the plural, is says that "you have received the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls(1Pet1.9) which we might take as being more than one soul if we take scripture as sacred text which stands apart and also together. Is that the clue? Are there more than one soul as the anceints used to think? If so, then a soul and body can be destroyed and yet all mankind can be saved. Rebirth or reincarnation as some say would then be right. And the lord says that you "must be born again" if you are to enter the kingdom of God (Jh3.3) to which Nicodemus asks him, "can you enter your mother's womb again". What if you can? If there is a spiritual mother, then why not? For Paul tells us that surely if there is a natural body there is a spiritual body.
It would mean that the new testament, much like the old testament, is speaking about a people, a land, a slice of time.... yet to be repeated many times over. Consider this, if we are from God, how can he do anything but save us. Does he not have a vested interest? Does he not look at himself?

So the question, what happens when we die?

No one knows, but everyone has their pet opinion.

 

[allfoak]

The Gospel of Thomas
saying 18

(18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

 

[moorea944]

If the "wages of sin is death" (Rom 6.23) why are we resurrected? For there is a "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous" (Acts 24.15). Is it so we can "all stand before the judgement seat of God" (Rom 14.10), and if so, why would we want to when we have already died for our sins? And also, if God can "destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" (Mt10.28) and if that is what the resurrection is about, why does he resurrect the soul when he already knows the body? And if the soul has it made clear what the facts are, why would it defy and die? And why stand before his judgement seat anyway considering we are "judged already" (Jh3.18- normally says 'condemned'). And if the body dies through sin and therefore judgement, why judge the soul. Is it that the body is judged and dies? and then the soul the second death? (Rev) But if that is complete destruction, how then is Christ, "the saviour of the world" (Jh4.42) and also it says of God, "will have all mankind(anthropos) saved" (1Tim2.4) Surely if the Christ is the Saviour of the world, he will save it and therefore all mankind is saved. But how then do they die? The soul must survive if the body dies in order that "all mankind" is saved. Yet we know he can destroy "body and soul", so does this mean there are many levels of soul, or perhaps there is a deeper self to the person.
Yet (1Pet2.11) says that worldly passions in the body "war against the soul". In (Jms5.20) turning someone from their sins will "save a soul from death" which fits the lords words and Gehenna. It is appointed that "all mankind shall die once and then face judgement" (Heb9.27). The lord himself says that if you "lose your soul" you will "save it" (Lk9.24) the Greek often rendered as destroy and not "lose". Thus now it seems that the destroying of the soul will save the soul. Is this the same soul we speak of? And though Peter spoke to many and could have therefore been speaking in the plural, is says that "you have received the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls(1Pet1.9) which we might take as being more than one soul if we take scripture as sacred text which stands apart and also together. Is that the clue? Are there more than one soul as the anceints used to think? If so, then a soul and body can be destroyed and yet all mankind can be saved. Rebirth or reincarnation as some say would then be right. And the lord says that you "must be born again" if you are to enter the kingdom of God (Jh3.3) to which Nicodemus asks him, "can you enter your mother's womb again". What if you can? If there is a spiritual mother, then why not? For Paul tells us that surely if there is a natural body there is a spiritual body.
It would mean that the new testament, much like the old testament, is speaking about a people, a land, a slice of time.... yet to be repeated many times over. Consider this, if we are from God, how can he do anything but save us. Does he not have a vested interest? Does he not look at himself?

So the question, what happens when we die?

What happens when we die?

Easy to answer. Scripture tells us that there is nothing in death. You cease to exist. You cant remember anything, think, love, envy, hate, etc, etc. You are dead until the resurrection.

So.... what about this thing called a "soul". That "soul" has been taken out of context by almost all religions. People are afraid of death and dont want to hear, "when you dead, your dead". They want life to go on.... God told Adam that you will die. You go back to the dust of the ground. The serpent said, no....

"Soul' in the bible is not something added to a human at some point in time. "Soul" in Hebrew is a living, breathing person. Someone who is alive. That's all. Adam "became" a soul. Soul can also be written in many different ways too. But never that man was given something extra.

In scripture, a "soul" can live, breath, eat, sleep, and die. NEVER do you find "soul" and "Immortal" together. Why... If it is so important to people's faith, why isnt immortal soul found in the bible?

The resurrection is preached all through scripture. Esp, in Acts and Paul's letters.

So in death, this what happens.

Eccl 9 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

Gen 3 "Dust thou art: to dust thou shalt return."

Gen 25 "Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people." "Spirit" in Hebrew is breath....
.
Psalms 6 "In death there is no remembrance of Thee: in the grave, who shall give Thee thanks?"

Psalms 115 "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

This is just some of many verses on death. Acts 2, Peter gives examples of what death is by taking about David. David is just dead and buried and he didnt go to heaven.
Jesus says in the book of John, no one goes to heaven. John even tells us that no one has ever gone to heaven.

So, we are dead until the resurrection. Bible is very clear on that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If Yahweh rules forever after a certain point, doesn't that render everything that happened up until that point completely meaningless?
I mean YEC types say everything is only about 6000 years old right? But let's step outside that even and allow for religious people who aren't completely loony and accept the approximate age of Homo Sapiens to be ~200,000.
So all this ridiculous drama with Yahweh and Jesus' dying for everyone, and thousands of years of judgment and people going to heaven and hell and purgatory and sheol and all these places. And then one day Yahweh wraps everything up and "rules forever."
Forever.
And ever.
So let's say 25 hundred billion trillion years from now, Yahweh is still ruling in his Golden Pyramid. Statistically speaking, the ~200,000-250,000 years is meaningless. Why all the hub-bub about commandments and faith and judgment and all this, if this stretch of time is basically going to mean nothing in the face of an ever extending eternity?

First of all, there is nothing in Genesis to indicate how long each creative day was or even if they are of equal or differing lengths of time. AL of the creative days are summed up by the word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4

Please keep in mind according to 1 Corinthians 15:24 that Jesus hands back God's kingdom to God at the end of Jesus governing over earth for one-thousand years. That means that Jesus will have accomplished over earth what is recorded at Revelation 22:2.
ALL of earth's nations will be healed. So, by the end of Jesus millennium-long day of governing over earth even ' enemy death ' will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

Only some people are resurrected to heaven - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10
The majority of people will be resurrected ( out of hell/sheol/grave ) back to healthy physical life on earth.- Revelation 20:13-14
Biblical hell (grave) ends up emptied out before vacated biblical hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death' for hell ( grave ) .
Mankind will see that what has taken place is meaningful because the righteous will inherit the earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29 - inherit the earth forever. So, the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth of Matthew 25:31-33 is the beginning for those who can remain alive on earth, and continue living on earth, right into the start of Jesus' 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth. Earth will become a beautiful blooming paradise as Eden originally was. All in the face of an ever extending eternity on earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

None of us survive our own deaths. It's a nice fantasy, but get over it people. We die, we're not permanent. Nothing is eternal, why on Baal's Blue Ball would anyone think human consciousness is??

Even Adam was never permanent but mortal.
Adam could only live forever on earth as long as Adam did not break God's Law.
Since Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B - then even the angels are Not immortal.
Since we sin we die - Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7 - and we can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone to resurrect us.
Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18 - some to heaven - Revelation 20:6 - but MOST of mankind will be resurrected back to healthy life on earth during Jesus' coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth. Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection...... because the sleeping dead will be awakened from death's deep sleep during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth in righteousness.

Before a person is resurrected they are Not conscious - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
So the dead ' sleep in death ' as Jesus taught at John 11:11-14.
That means the day Jesus died Jesus was in a sleep-like state while he was in the biblical hell (grave ) until God resurrected the dead Jesus out of the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Acts of the Apostles 3:15

According to Psalms 115:16 it is Not Baal's blue ball.

 

[Demonslayer]

First of all, there is nothing in Genesis to indicate how long each creative day was or even if they are of equal or differing lengths of time. AL of the creative days are summed up by the word ' day

Yeah sure I've heard it before, creation week could have been a week, a year, a hundred years, whatever.

But that doesn't answer my question in the post you responded to. My question is, if homo-sapiens have been around for around 200,000 years, and at some point God is going to come back down, judge everyone, and then "rule for all eternity" after that...doesn't that make this whole time period rather pointless?

I mean all this hype, God creates Earth and God creates humans and sacrificies his son and it all leads up to judgement day...let's say Judgement day doesn't even come around for another 800,000 years so this fantastical play that God is putting on lasts one million years.

But then it's over right? And God then sits and rules Heaven for eternity. That's a super long time, you realize. So in 75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, the entire span of God's experiment creating, judging and damning or saving human souls is going to see pretty insignificant, yes?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yeah sure I've heard it before, creation week could have been a week, a year, a hundred years, whatever.
But that doesn't answer my question in the post you responded to. My question is, if homo-sapiens have been around for around 200,000 years, and at some point God is going to come back down, judge everyone, and then "rule for all eternity" after that...doesn't that make this whole time period rather pointless?
I mean all this hype, God creates Earth and God creates humans and sacrificies his son and it all leads up to judgement day...let's say Judgement day doesn't even come around for another 800,000 years so this fantastical play that God is putting on lasts one million years.
But then it's over right? And God then sits and rules Heaven for eternity. That's a super long time, you realize. So in 75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, the entire span of God's experiment creating, judging and damning or saving human souls is going to see pretty insignificant, yes?

No, this time period has allowed for all of us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
If God had destroyed Adam and Eve before having children we simply would Not be here.
We are all to be descendants of Adam and Eve - Genesis 1:28
Satan challenges all of us - Job 2:4-5 that touch our ' flesh ' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God.
So, the passing of time shows Satan to be a liar and for all to see that even under adverse conditions there are faithful people.
Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.

 

[Nietzsche]

So the question, what happens when we die?

Tell me what the conditions of death were, what the environment is like, temperature, a time-frame and maybe how many pieces the body is in and I'll be able to tell you.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Yeah sure I've heard it before, creation week could have been a week, a year, a hundred years, whatever.

But that doesn't answer my question in the post you responded to. My question is, if homo-sapiens have been around for around 200,000 years, and at some point God is going to come back down, judge everyone, and then "rule for all eternity" after that...doesn't that make this whole time period rather pointless?

I mean all this hype, God creates Earth and God creates humans and sacrificies his son and it all leads up to judgement day...let's say Judgement day doesn't even come around for another 800,000 years so this fantastical play that God is putting on lasts one million years.

But then it's over right? And God then sits and rules Heaven for eternity. That's a super long time, you realize. So in 75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, the entire span of God's experiment creating, judging and damning or saving human souls is going to see pretty insignificant, yes?

No. The whole event of death and life will never end; ye of little faith (and many words)

 

[Geoff-Allen]

Here's a site you may enjoy - by a person who had a near-death experience -

https://www.embracedbythelight.com/archives/quotes/archive_quotes.htm

Cheers!

 

[outhouse]

Here's a site you may enjoy - by a person who had a near-death experience -

https://www.embracedbythelight.com/archives/quotes/archive_quotes.htm

Cheers!

Not credible for anything.

 

[outhouse]

The whole event of death and life will never end

Its ends the day you die.

Everyone factually dies.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Its ends the day you die.

How do you know?

Everyone factually dies.

I had noticed.

 

[allfoak]

The question seems to be one of definition.
What is death exactly?

Religion speaks of things like, reincarnation, resurrection, as well as heaven and hell.
Science says we return to the dirt we came from and is silent on anything happening afterwards.
There has been some study into the NDE but science seems ill equipped to study such things.

Based on what we are being told by the "experts", we can do nothing but throw up our hands and declare that the answer does not exist.
There is no "proof" coming from either camp.

Is there an answer, or are we just expected to live with the uncertainty?

What if we were to do something rather silly and ask ourselves the question of what happens if anything, once the body is unable to function any longer.
It is the only direction left to turn when there are no answers coming from the outside of us.

Is it possible to answer our own questions?
The Atheist says that one does not need religion to be moral and ethical.
If an atheist is being moral and ethical where is this all coming from?
Morals and ethics are not learned from a book.
Does this mean that we have a source of knowledge within ourselves that we can draw upon?

This is a question that has already been answered by most.
We call it our conscience.
It is a common term understood by the atheist and religious alike.
We know it exists because we speak of those that have no conscience as if there is a scale.
Even those we call sociopaths and psychopaths understand that they are different, meaning that they recognize morality when they see it, but just don't have the capacity to live that way.

Can this be a source of knowledge that is common to us all?
If it is true that this thing called a conscience exists, then death takes on a whole new meaning.
There doesn't seem to be any source for this thing we call conscience.

con·science
[ˈkän(t)SHəns]
NOUN

1. an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior:
   "he had a guilty conscience about his desires" ·
   moral sense · inner voice ·
   Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press

So it seems the question of death is left up to the individual to define for themselves.
Something that we are all equipped to do, whether we are an atheist or devoutly religious.
We simply use the storehouse of knowledge we call our conscience to decide.

What happens when we die is really up to each one of us to decide.

 

[Demonslayer]

No, this time period has allowed for all of us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.

1. This doesn't address anything I said about the concept of eternity rendering the time between creation week and judgment day insignificant

2. I choose Charlotte McKinney to be Sovereign over me. What a view!

 

[Demonslayer]

This is a question that has already been answered by most.
We call it our conscience.
It is a common term understood by the atheist and religious alike.
We know it exists because we speak of those that have no conscience as if there is a scale.
Even those we call sociopaths and psychopaths understand that they are different, meaning that they recognize morality when they see it, but just don't have the capacity to live that way.

Correct, good stuff here.

Can this be a source of knowledge that is common to us all?

Yes, absolutely.

If it is true that this thing called a conscience exists, then death takes on a whole new meaning.

I don't see why. When we die our conscience ends with our consciousness.

There doesn't seem to be any source for this thing we call conscience.

Yes there is, the source is brain chemestry. We can alter our own conscience by altering our brain chemestry. Often times people who get very drunk behave in "immoral" ways they wouldn't have otherwise had they been sober. The source of our conscience is our brain, specifically the frontal lobe. In sociopaths we see very predictible brain chemestry and you can "make" a sociopath if there is a brain injury to the frontal lobe.

It's all about our brains, which is why when our brains die, all of this ceases. Consciousness, conscience, all of it is created by the brain.

Recently neuroscientists have identified areas of the brain related to psychopathic behaviors. Subtle damage to the amygdala, a brain region that helps us process our emotions, may explain why psychopaths act so cruelly and cannot express emotions properly. Psychopathic behaviors are also associated with injury to the cerebral cortex, which regulates memory and self-awareness, and the frontal lobe, which is responsible for self-control and judgment.

 

[allfoak]

1. This doesn't address anything I said about the concept of eternity rendering the time between creation week and judgment day insignificant

2. I choose Charlotte McKinney to be Sovereign over me. What a view!

You are very observant to recognize these three very important concepts of time, eternity and sovereignty.
They are all very closely connected.

Just thought i would jump in here and have some fun.

 

[allfoak]

@Demonslayer The science sounds impressive but the conclusions do not fit with the experience of the mystics and those that have had NDEs.

 

[Demonslayer]

The science sounds impressive but the conclusions do not fit with the experience of the mystics and those that have had NDEs.

It's not that the science sounds impressive, the science actual reality. It's factual, just read up on brain chemestry and sociopathic behavior. We know quite a bit about what makes us tick. And it ain't some ghosty-soul thing. I don't really know what a mystic is..sounds like some nudniks sitting around playing Harry Potter if you ask me...but science has explanations for NDE's.

 

[Demonslayer]

You are very observant to recognize these three very important concepts of time, eternity and sovereignty.
They are all very closely connected.

I don't really know how sovereignty fits in, I was just responding to the other post.

Just thought i would jump in here and have some fun.

Please do!