What does it mean to have enlightenment?

[zenzero]

Friend ranjana,

Perhaps those who are ridiculed and teased for having no mind (mentally handicapped) are the ones who we could learn the most from. Perhaps?

If someone's mind is not 100% functional does not mean that, rather this life they undergo mental rest due to some past karma.
Once again penetrate this fact that we see both the polarities of goodness and badness both in equal measures all around us and only that keeps the balance intact.
Love & rgds

 

[Runewolf1973]

Friend ranjana,

If someone's mind is not 100% functional does not mean that, rather this life they undergo mental rest due to some past karma.
Once again penetrate this fact that we see both the polarities of goodness and badness both in equal measures all around us and only that keeps the balance intact.
Love & rgds

That is a really good point. I guess maybe they don't have the "knowledge" all there, but I think at least they have some "stillness of mind" of sorts. Perhaps their mind is just sleeping in this lifetime. Good point. There is always a "higher" reason.

I'm enjoying the sharing of wisdom in this thread much better than the thread "Does God Exist". They are still going at it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Runewolf1973,
Normally agitating the mind too much leads the mind to a state of chaos which we call MADNESS and slowly it needs to find the balance so nature balances this agitation by the opposite or stillness.
The reason for everything is BALANCE which is why Buddha is different than all other religions. It is only Buddha that sees both the polarities i.e. god as well as satan.
Others only take you to the god pole which is far from the satan pole but in reality both are there and both have to be accepted in equal measure.
By being unattached is to be free from either god or satan.
Love & rgds

 

[Runewolf1973]

Zenzero, is "stillness of mind" truly enlightenment? I'm not so sure. When I enter that "stillness of mind" during my shamanic journeys I believe that I enter the realm of the enlightened ones. When I am in that realm, they "speak" to me. I have actually communicated to a plant spirit in one of my journeys. For myself it would seem that "stillness of mind" is more of a gateway to the realm of the "All Knowing", but it doesn't mean than when I am in that realm I "know all". It is rather, the "enlightened ones" who are offering me their message. We have certain knowledge that is accessible to us, but some it would seem are more "awakened" than we are for now. Please offer me you're insight on the matter. Maybe I just "think" too much.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Do you believe that an infant or a child, or even an animal which knows nothing of knowledge, but yet is somehow happy and content to merely exist is at One with God? I do. Now that to me is True Enlightenment.

A very good post Runewolf, but IMHO there is more to enlightenment than innocence and harmony with one's environment.
Mankind is evolving, both on an individual basis and the collective. The kingdom of man is a little above the Animal kingdom and a little below the Angelic kingdom.

There is much growing and unfolding to be done, and what's more, people are not equal, there are incarnate souls on the threshold of ascending to the Angelic kingdom where there are others with still strong animalistic instincts.

Enlightenment is when the "Father and I are one", ie. non-duality.

I died as a mineral and became a plant;
I died as a plant and rose to animal;
I died as animal and I was a man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as man to soar...
With angels blest.
But even from an angel I must pass on:
All except God must perish.
When I have sacrificed my angel soul,
I shall become what no mind ever conceived.
JALALUDDIN RUMI

 

[doppelganger]

Enlightenment means the process of becoming aware of how the transitory and arbitrary nature of ego and identity interferes with love and compassion. It's not about new knowledge or a sense of well-being. It's about about nurturing ways to more fully experience a sense of connection to the Universe of our experience and all the things we think we see in it. It is the process of unlearning the certain knowledge that creates the fragmentation and division that, however useful, divides us from the Universe and each other.

 

[methylatedghosts]

What does it mean to have enlightenment?

This is the first thing that struck me. I don't think it's something you have, rather, something you are.

(Now I'll go and read the thread )

 

[Surya Deva]

Thank you Runewolf,

I can agree with you when you say that rather than looking for knowledge, let it come to you. In your OP it was not quite worded like this and it sounded like you were saying the ignorant is enlightened. But there is always an effort required to acquire something, even if what you are acquiring is just a realisation of what you already have. In the Yoga Sutras it says that one who puts in intense effort with sincerity and faith in their meditation will certainly succeed. It certainly does not say do nothing.

I think some philosophies are dangerous and I think the philosophy you were discussing in this thread, though well intentioned, is dangerous because of how it can be interpreted. This is why I have a problem with Jesus's teachings. His teachings are cryptic, and could mean many things, and some of the literal meanings are not good at all: "You must hate your own mother and and father" I know what Jesus is really saying, he is calling for detachment from family and friends to surrender to god. Likewise, "I am the way, light and truth, nobody goes to god unless they come through me" Again, I know what Jesus is really saying, he is saying that that one can only gain salvation through what he teaches.

I respect Jesus a lot, but I don't particularly appreciate him as a teacher. I think there have been far better teachers. A teacher has a responsibility to make clear what they teach, so that the student has a clear understanding. This is lacking strongly in Jesus's teachings. Hence why even to date theologians are still deliberating over what he meant.

Your philosophy was dangerous because your OP when interpreted literally gave the impression that ignorance was GOOD and knowledge was BAD. Now that you have clarified it I am finding your position more agreeable. Although I will still say to you that knowledge does not come if you don't seek it.

The virtue of emptying your mind and looking at reality with a fresh mind enables you to see reality more objectively, but you still need to make an effort with that knowledge. It is not an end in itself. Knowledge means nothing if it is not realised through action.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You are ALL so wise. Every last one of you. Yes, due to my ability to "walk between worlds", I can see how there is a higher realm where the enlightened or the "awakened" speak through to us. We have only to enter that realm through "stillness of mind". I can see how enlightenment is something that we already "are" not something that we "attain". We only need to "remember" it. That's what my stuffed goldfish was telling me. This is what the already "awakened ones" are helping us to do, simply, "Remember". Our place is with the "The Great Knowing" and "The Great Realization" as I call them, not as two separate entities, but as an equal balance to what constitutes the ONE. There are two sides to all things. That is why in nature we are all given "hints" you might say. There is light and there is dark. There is what is up, and there is what is down. Notice how we must have sleep if we are to be awake. We can not live without "sleeping". See hows trees themselves worship both the earth and the sky? That is why they "know" all things. There is the knowledge of Good, and there is the knowledge of Evil. If good and evil were meant to be known as two separate things, then there would not have been only ONE tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. In a metaphorical sense. The Great Knowing is the knowledge of ALL things, including the knowledge of good and evil. Since humans have a hard time "picking our apples" so to speak, we must continually be cautious. We must "watch for the worm". It all makes sense. We only have to "remember". What we "see" through our physical eyes is not everything, it is only part of it. There is also the side we "don't" see. To be ONE, we must see both sides clearly. I think that's the knowledge the trees know. They are part of both sides, the physical "earth", and the spiritual "sky" and they are able to do this without even sleeping. Trees are always "awakened" you might say. They are ONE with both "The Great Knowing" and "The Great Realization". For both things are as ONE.

Thank you all for you're wisdom. Without all the different perspectives on "God" and putting them all together, we could never understand truly ALL of what "God" is. "God" in a sense, "sees" everything though different perspectives. Should we be any different? Sorry if I use the word "God" too much, it is just easier than constantly writing The Great Knowing and the Great Realization. You know what I mean.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I must tell you all something, the other day something came to me. It appeared before me in my "stillness of mind". It was a symbol. It has made itself known to me as the symbol of both sides, the ALL and the ONE. The duality and the oneness of ALL existence. Would you be interested in knowing what it is?

 

[Storm]

Reposted from the glossary in my Any Questions? thread:
Kaleria (kah-LEE-ree-ah):
A moment of overwhelming awe and wonder at the glory of life. You can find it in a sunset, a child, atrocity, compassion.

The bright shadow:
The awareness of divinity and the interconnectedness of all things, also the state of kaleria. Used as a blessing: May you walk in bright shadow.

I imagine Enlightenment as the attainment of a constant state of kaleria.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Reposted from the glossary in my Any Questions? thread:
Kaleria (kah-LEE-ree-ah):
A moment of overwhelming awe and wonder at the glory of life. You can find it in a sunset, a child, atrocity, compassion.

The bright shadow:
The awareness of divinity and the interconnectedness of all things, also the state of kaleria. Used as a blessing: May you walk in bright shadow.

I imagine Enlightenment as the attainment of a constant state of kaleria.

That is almost identical to what I experienced. Perhaps for one instant if that was all it was, I "remembered". And now I have a stuffed goldfish I named Epiphany to remind me.

 

[Willamena]

I must tell you all something, the other day something came to me. It appeared before me in my "stillness of mind". It was a symbol. It has made itself known to me as the symbol of both sides, the ALL and the ONE. The duality and the oneness of ALL existence. Would you be interested in knowing what it is?

I would.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I have some interesting thoughts on enlightenment....

First thought: How did the "Awakened Beings" receive their knowledge? Did they read it in books? Did someone as in another living person "tell" them of this knowledge? From what I understand, that knowledge just came to them in the form of an "awakening". I believe that in their "stillness of mind" they were contacted by those who were already "awakened". Perhaps they came to an understanding with nature, animals, and the knowledge of trees and plants. What creature on this planet truly understands the knowledge of life from the very beginning of the conception of life itself? Trees and plants. Animal life comes in second. Even the earliest forms of life known such as the "primordial ooze" is thought of as some constituent of early plant life. From whence sprung the metaphorical "tree of knowledge". Does that make sense? If we could only learn to "listen" we would understand what the early Native American's were trying to teach us....."Trees Speak".

Thought number two: They say that those life forms who are truly "awakened" for instance Jesus Christ, were able to walk on water. Their vibrational energy was so great that they could do this. Putting physics and science aside, as obviously it plays some part, but is it not a strange coincidence that trees and plants, and leaves can float or in a sense "walk" on water as well? Weird.

Thought number three: If I may speak of reincarnation for a bit. Notice how trees are born out of the earth, and then when it is their time to pass, they return to the earth and soil only to return once again as another plant or tree? Maybe it is just me, but it would seem that nature itself "reincarnates". The coming and going of all things. The cyclic nature of all things. How should we be any different? Maybe one day I will be fortunate enough to reincarnate into a tree.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I would.

Then I will tell you....

Do this....Start with your hands stretched out to your side, but slightly in front. Then think of a tree and the way it grows. It's roots spread out into the ground "that no man knows wither the roots of it run"....quoted from Norse teachings. Imagine that your hands and arms were the roots of the tree. Now move your hands the way the roots would grow up to the base of the tree in a slight arc upwards. See how they join as one. Bring both hands up together and continue up the "tree" until both hands (still together), but at the (highest you can reach) top of the "branches" so to speak. Now "embrace" ALL the light energy of the Universe and as in a giant circle, bring your hands around and back to the bottom to bring it all together as ONE. It is in a sense an upside down Y which symbolizes the roots of a tree, but also the duality of All things coming together as One. Then as you reach the top, you embrace the light as a tree would and bring it all together in the form of a circle which encompasses the totality of of the ALL. I hope that makes sense. I will try to draw the actual symbol out and post it or put up a link so you can see it. But for now, that is how I would describe it. An upside down Y inside of a circle, but without the sharp transition (middle joint) of an actual Y, but going rather in a gradual double arc upwards. I find that somehow this symbol explains a lot even being as simple as it is. It is the coming together of Two as the totality of One or ALL existence. It is The Great Knowing and The Great Realization coming together as One to form the "tree" of enlightenment and knowledge. For some reason it just seems so familiar to me even though I don't actually recall seeing it anywhere before. It is quite a lot like the symbol of Peace, but means so much more. And no, it's not the symbol for Mercedes Benz , it is slightly different. Perhaps it is the universal symbol for the World Tree. The tree of knowledge. It just appeared to me. Actually just right after I had written my earlier post on how I see trees as the manifestations of the "enlightened ones". Maybe they were "speaking" to me. I just wanted to share it with you. As with everything, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[autonomous1one1]

I have some interesting thoughts on enlightenment....

First thought: How did the "Awakened Beings" receive their knowledge? ..........

Greetings Runewolf. May it be offered that Suraj gave some good thoughts imho on paths to awakening as well as on what Enlightenment means in a discussion with me in his thread on Hinduism: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/70760-case-hinduism-2.html These may be of interest to you and are covered on page 2 of his thread.

You will notice that our views on Enlightenment are in agreement with Ben and others about 'the Father and I are one' - union with the Divinity within - or the realization that reality is non-dual. This realization presents us with a difficulty that may be worth noting - our language and every post in this current thread is dualistic in nature. Attempts are often made to explain Enlightenment in dualistic language with the primary perspective of a finite human that awakens. 'I and the Father' implies two 'things' - right? A non-dualistic view involves a transformative shift in perspective from a dualistic one and is difficult to put into language also, although some of us error in trying.

Similarly, in my opinion, reincarnation as you describe it and as commonly understood is from a dualistic perspective - a finite thing is reborn as another thing. After all, those describing it are most often with dualistic perspectives and that is the only way it can be understood with that perspective.

Regards,
a..1

 

[Willamena]

Then I will tell you....

Do this....Start with your hands stretched out to your side, but slightly in front. Then think of a tree and the way it grows. It's roots spread out into the ground "that no man knows wither the roots of it run"....quoted from Norse teachings. Imagine that your hands and arms were the roots of the tree. Now move your hands the way the roots would grow up to the base of the tree in a slight arc upwards. See how they join as one. Bring both hands up together and continue up the "tree" until both hands (still together), but at the (highest you can reach) top of the "branches" so to speak. Now "embrace" ALL the light energy of the Universe and as in a giant circle, bring your hands around and back to the bottom to bring it all together as ONE. It is in a sense an upside down Y which symbolizes the roots of a tree, but also the duality of All things coming together as One. Then as you reach the top, you embrace the light as a tree would and bring it all together in the form of a circle which encompasses the totality of of the ALL. I hope that makes sense. I will try to draw the actual symbol out and post it or put up a link so you can see it. But for now, that is how I would describe it. An upside down Y inside of a circle, but without the sharp transition (middle joint) of an actual Y, but going rather in a gradual double arc upwards. I find that somehow this symbol explains a lot even being as simple as it is. It is the coming together of Two as the totality of One or ALL existence. It is The Great Knowing and The Great Realization coming together as One to form the "tree" of enlightenment and knowledge. For some reason it just seems so familiar to me even though I don't actually recall seeing it anywhere before. It is quite a lot like the symbol of Peace, but means so much more. And no, it's not the symbol for Mercedes Benz , it is slightly different. Perhaps it is the universal symbol for the World Tree. The tree of knowledge. It just appeared to me. Actually just right after I had written my earlier post on how I see trees as the manifestations of the "enlightened ones". Maybe they were "speaking" to me. I just wanted to share it with you. As with everything, take it with a grain of salt.

I like your symbol very much, as you've described it. It reminds me somewhat of one of my favourites:

 

[Rolling_Stone]

What does it mean to have enlightenment?

This is an interesting thread with many interesting perspectives.

Frankly, I don't know what enlightenment is, but I think I have a pretty good idea what it's not. I just go with what resonates.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The symbol I gave, to me represents so many different things. If you think of you're hands and the fingers as the joining of all the different beliefs and cultures coming together to form one unity. The "enlightened ones" speak to all cultures and spread "their" message to all persons in all walks of life. Not everything works for everyone, so "the enlightened ones" "speak" to others in ways they can understand. When you think of it, is "Truth" any different if it comes from a different idea or understanding of what "God" is? No. Truth can be only Truth. The "enlightened ones" are sharing their wisdom to others. My symbol for me represents also the coming together of as it says in the Bible, the "darkness" and the "spirit" or "breath" of "God". The formation of the "waters" not literally water, but rather the first forms of light energy in the form of gases and chemicals which came together to form matter. The darkness over the deep was the "potential energy" for their to be matter and substance in the universe. For in order for the Universe to be able to grow and expand in the first place, their had to have been "room" or "space" for it to come into being. Just having that "space" gave it potential. The "spirit" of "God" to me represents the Source or the conscious realization of being. It is when the energy of "potential" and the energy of "realization" or "spirit" came together as ONE that matter and physical energy was first formed. It was the beginning of "light". How does a tree form? Or how is any human or animal "conceived"? It takes the two sides of the female and the male to come together as one to give the "potential" and the "realization" for their to be "life". In a sense, the spirit of "God" comes into all things. When life procreates, it is "God's" spirit that is "growing" or in a sense "realizing" Himself. In a sense, "life" itself is the formation of "light". I think that is why in all reality, all life forms are creatures of "light". We have auras and give off light that we don't even realize half the time. Trees are the purest forms of "light". Humans have colors. The different colors represent how "spiritual" or "non-spiritual" in a sense how people are. The more "light" you are the closer to "God" you are. I guess it is all a matter of how you perceive things, but for me, life and "God" are not great mysteries. I think if scientists were able to analyze it down to the very finest structure, they would probably realize that all matter and energy and life itself, was the formation of light. They probably already know that. They just don't understand that it takes "potential" and "realization" or "consciousness" to create light and life. It is when the two become one when light or life is realized. If you can learn to read "life signs", you can begin to understand why ALL things exist. Perhaps I have it all wrong and we live in giant bubble for observation by aliens.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Runewolf,

I have actually communicated to a plant spirit in one of my journeys. For myself it would seem that "stillness of mind" is more of a gateway to the realm of the "All Knowing", but it doesn't mean than when I am in that realm I "know all". It is rather, the "enlightened ones" who are offering me their message

The term Enlightenment is only for those who no more EXISTS as INDIVIDUALS.
If one attains STILLNESS of mind and is still there to know or understand knowledge and where it comes from then it proves that the mind is not STILL as there is still exists a PERCEIVER to understand as to who is offering any knowledge.
It is only when the PERCEIVER and the PERCEIVED is one then only the individual is no more and than enlightenment happens.
One is then JUST *IS*. There remains no question or answer as questioner and answer is ONE, all dualities disappear.
Love & rgds