What do you do with magick?

[Sylvan]

So the most drastic thing that magic could probably do is something like make someone very prone to physical death

I was given (or imposed upon more appropriately) a distinct vision within the same 30 min (or less) a friend went into labor with her twins. It came out of nowhere. The vision was imagining myself as a pregnant woman and my water breaking. I asked (to no one in particular) why I was having this vision (it was really strong and uncalled for) and an voice said "Because xx is having her twins now." I ask, bewildered, "Do I need to do anything about this??" "No, she already called her midwife idiot."

I hadn't spoken to her for three months and had no idea their exact due date, which was preempted by two weeks. That impressed me.

 

[Sylvan]

Since the mind is much easier to affect than physical things, most magic is centered around people and events, which is done through either mundane or supernatural manipulation of the other person's mind.

This is quite true, and conversely I would suggest that physical components well chosen and invested with intent are not mere props for the ritualistic mindset, but a time tested methodology for successful sorcery.

 

[Infinitum]

Okay, last time I didn't actually respond properly to the question, so I'll try again. Late night ramblings incoming, bear with me.

To me magic(k) isn't just some kind of tradition or remnant I stick to for whatever reasons. For me it's a mindset and a way of looking at the world. Everything has a meaning, in one way or another, and things are connected on levels that are best understood with intuition, not logic. It's not science and doesn't follow the common laws, since it's entirely subjective and therefore can't even make any claims for knowing what's objectively true. But it's the door to a world where you are in control of your own psyche aswell as your body and your life. The symbolism and the rituals are a key to unlocking what's going on in that magical universe, but they're only a map to it, not the experience itself. What's beyond them could easily be called mysticism, and that's what makes magic so powerful. In the middle of the experience it doesn't mean a thing whether the thing you see or feel or hear is actually real or not, because at that moment it is real for you. And what happens in that state has the power to change you, for better or for worse. That's where the danger comes from too, because magic is capable of causing the walls in your mind to collapse and leave you open to anything that's going on inside or outside. Many magicians study meditation and psychology in order to understand what happens and control it, as also understand why old practices do what they do.

The thing with magic is that it's so much more than just casting spells or believing in being able to control the world around you, or using hypnosis or other psychological tricks to fool your brain. If you haven't actually experienced magic, it's really hard to explain what you've went through. When I started reading magical books just a few months ago after studying on my own for almost seven years I was surprised how similar things people describe, despite of having little or no formal training on the subject. There's something in the magical tradition, our present culture or simply our mind that responds to what we do, and respecting and exploring that is what makes a person a true magician.

 

[jasonwill2]

This is quite true, and conversely I would suggest that physical components well chosen and invested with intent are not mere props for the ritualistic mindset, but a time tested methodology for successful sorcery.

In other words the physical objects used in a ritual are a props that assist in getting you to believe that it will work, and so it does

The props themselves do not matter, despite what some "White" magicians will tell you, the symbolism and intent behind the objects and actions you use is what matters, as the desire, focus, and direction is what matters, not the actual mental and physical tools you use to get to that state of focused and directed desire/emotion/whatever.

Though the ritual I did to ensure I would pass my G.E.D. was weird... I could of sworn that something was working within my mind, literally. Then after I finished I saw a blackish blob of definite depth float away from the altar. So I guess some of it could be supernatural. I didn't even expect to see anything, I thought that Satan was working with me internally at a distance in a telepathic like way. Guess it was something else though, or perhaps a daemon he sent to help me. He must of been busy

Oh by the way that ritual worked beyond my wildest dreams, the most successful and transformative working I have ever done IN MY LIFE.

 

[Adramelek]

I was given (or imposed upon more appropriately) a distinct vision within the same 30 min (or less) a friend went into labor with her twins. It came out of nowhere. The vision was imagining myself as a pregnant woman and my water breaking. I asked (to no one in particular) why I was having this vision (it was really strong and uncalled for) and an voice said "Because xx is having her twins now." I ask, bewildered, "Do I need to do anything about this??" "No, she already called her midwife idiot."

I hadn't spoken to her for three months and had no idea their exact due date, which was preempted by two weeks. That impressed me.

This thing which you experienced Sylvan some would call an effect of Vampyric Magic. Such as being able to sense the thoughts, emotions, pain, sensations, of those whom we are spiritually bonded to in our lives. :bat: Some might call them Magical Familiars, a relationship between other beings that goes beyond "love" and "hate".

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Sylvan]

In other words the physical objects used in a ritual are a props that assist in getting you to believe that it will work, and so it does

Nope, for many specific reasons. But continue to think this as you wish.

This thing which you experienced Sylvan some would call an effect of Vampyric Magic. Such as being able to sense the thoughts, emotions, pain, sensations, of those whom we are spiritually bonded to in our lives.

This is interesting, and I would agree. The word has just got such a mall-goth connotation, I hesitate using it myself.

 

[jasonwill2]

In theory though, one can do anyhting with magic, but the mental energy needed to even move an object is more than the mind can ever produce by simply thinking, because the amount of energy to move something greatly exceeds that which is required to plant a thought in someone.

Just remembered to add that.

Nope, for many specific reasons. But continue to think this as you wish.

Wait what? but if you do not believe it wont work... the physical objects are just props for visualization and mood so that one can more easily project their desires.

 

[Sylvan]

Wait what? but if you do not believe it wont work... the physical objects are just [emphasis mine] props for visualization and mood so that one can more easily project their desires.

I don't agree. In trying to adequately explain why I realized I would have to explain my understanding of 2-3 models for how magic works and why, and basically erased a few paragraphs of blahblahblah.

It comes down to this. In my own experience, someone who doesn't or only half-believes when given a well-wrought spell to do with correctly prepared ingredients* and who does something seemingly superfluous like using the correct planetary hour is likely have better results than someone without much experience winging it with a pocketknife and some nag champa who fully 'believes' and works themselves up into a gnostic sweat. Does this mean the person who gave the spell to them is really the one who cast it? When no effect would take place without the actions of the half-believer? And the actions of an arbitrary system like astrology, which in most of its magical applications no longer even has much to do with the actual movements of the stars?

A lot of things can happen, and saying something definitely is or isn't so regarding this subject is asking to be proven wrong. I can only go by my own experience. I could say an exhaustive piece here about plants, stones, spirits, alchemy, holographic reality models, blahblahblah, but that's why I erased that ****. I'll save that for my students, should anyone ever pester me for such masochism in a decade or two.

*by someone who invests intent in their creation aka another magician.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Magic and ritual to me is art. It is celebrating the vibrant moment with hope for the future and articles from the past. My poetry is more alive to me when I can recite it to the full moon or inscribe it on an oak leaf to be carried away in a stream.

 

[jasonwill2]

Magic and ritual to me is art. It is celebrating the vibrant moment with hope for the future and articles from the past. My poetry is more alive to me when I can recite it to the full moon or inscribe it on an oak leaf to be carried away in a stream.

So you never use magic for gain, vengeance, inner-transformation, or helping your loved ones? It's just a form of expression?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

So you never use magic for gain, vengeance, inner-transformation, or helping your loved ones? It's just a form of expression?

Might fall under inner-transformation/illumination.

 

[jasonwill2]

Might fall under inner-transformation/illumination.

Only in-so-much as any other form of art. Magic tends to be much more powerful than art for this purpose though as it actually accesses and reprograms the subconscious mind. Art will never get you into a meditative or gnostic state at which point you do this, unless you consider some physical or mental disciplines an art-form. So I guess it could be an "art-form" but I wouldn't say "art" in the sense of a good screenplay, painting, or heaps of metal scrap and junk hanging from the ceiling (that last one I am not kidding on, I've seen that called 'art').

More perhaps though an art like dance perhaps though.

 

[Infinitum]

Art will never get you into a meditative or gnostic state at which point you do this, unless you consider some physical or mental disciplines an art-form.

Actually I've had art, especially some writings, mess with my head pretty badly. With the right storytelling techniques you are totally capable of blowing someone's mind and twisting something around inside them. Neil Gaiman has caused that to me more than once. I'm pretty sure something from Alan Moore could do the same thing.

 

[Sylvan]

heaps of metal scrap and junk hanging from the ceiling (that last one I am not kidding on, I've seen that called 'art').

Yes but selling that heap for 10,000$+ and continuing to do so is a magical act I have seen perfected by people (many of them total d*bags), without any of what you and I might recognize as ceremony. And pictures do no justice but if you saw this, or any of her other installations, in person:

I suspect that like me you would find her to be a undeniable practitioner of the Arte. These are Susan Sze installations. I have stood in the room studying them for 70+ minutes, slowly shifting perspectives and walking to or sitting in different parts of the room. And would have gone back and done it again the next day if I had the time.

 

[jasonwill2]

Actually I've had art, especially some writings, mess with my head pretty badly. With the right storytelling techniques you are totally capable of blowing someone's mind and twisting something around inside them. Neil Gaiman has caused that to me more than once. I'm pretty sure something from Alan Moore could do the same thing.

Didn't consider that...

Yes but selling that heap for 10,000$+ and continuing to do so is a magical act I have seen perfected by people, without any of what you and I might recognize as ceremony. And if you saw this, or any of her other installations, in person:


I suspect that like me you would find her to be a undeniable practitioner of the Arte.

Wouldn't load.

 

[Sylvan]

Change your browser settings or google her name. Looks fine to me on Chrome or MIE.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

So you never use magic for gain, vengeance, inner-transformation, or helping your loved ones? It's just a form of expression?

Only in the way everyone does. We all manipulate energy and the environment for these things.

Only in-so-much as any other form of art. Magic tends to be much more powerful than art for this purpose though as it actually accesses and reprograms the subconscious mind. Art will never get you into a meditative or gnostic state at which point you do this, unless you consider some physical or mental disciplines an art-form. So I guess it could be an "art-form" but I wouldn't say "art" in the sense of a good screenplay, painting, or heaps of metal scrap and junk hanging from the ceiling (that last one I am not kidding on, I've seen that called 'art').

More perhaps though an art like dance perhaps though.

A good resource for this kind of thing would be Joseph Campbell's Masks of God: Creative Mythology. (In fact, Campbell's argument is that one of the primary purposes of mythology is in mystic realization and transformation.) Art can access every level of consciousness; the best definitions of it describe art in terms of relationship rather than medium.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Magic is part of life and anytime we exert our will and desires so strongly that what we will takes place we have done magic.

I assume you mean ceremonial magic, which by the way the liturgy and sacraments are ceremonial magic.

You've received some good answers already. Ritual magic is like doing something with a formula you know is going to work. The formula is basically a manipulation of natural forces around you, hence why magic can be very dangerous.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

All in all, a very interesting thread, here. But I see my approach as being very different. Start with that I'm an animist. And, I'm just a little guy in a great big universe. My ritual, my magic, is used primarily to try to get spirits to assist me in proceeding along my path, protecting me, guiding me, protecting and guiding those I love and care about--easing our suffering as best as possible and increasing our learning and wisdom along our paths.

I can try to direct things, get what I want selfishly, through what others might call magic--ritual, spells, etc.--but I recognize that other forces are at work, and that my pursuit of my own aims and interests might be contrary to what other, larger more powerful spirits might want. Example: fall in love with someone who does not at first feel that way; try magic "love spell" to get her attracted to me (that is, force the issue); only to learn later that her path was not to be intertwined with mine--the resulting pain and hurt and other consequences were significantly worse than simply suffering for a time from unrequited love. What did I learn? that pursuing my own interest without looking to the spirits could cause more pain and suffering than was needed, for me and others.

I engage the spirits to ask their blessing and help, but if the answer is "No," or "Sorry, you'd better duck and cover," then that is what I do. That they sometimes assist me does not change the fact that their interests are not my interests, or even humanity's interests. It is so even in our relations with the "lesser" plants and animals and material things.

 

[Sylvan]

That's why divination is such an important foundation to any practice. People forget this easily.