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Featured What do you as a person gain from it?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Conscious thoughts, Oct 6, 2021.

  1. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    What do you as a person gain from making negative criticism of other people's religions or worldviews?
    Is it important for you to get your own opinion and view across?

    Or is your criticism a sign of being curious but not knowing how to ask so both you and the one you question can feel good about the discussion?
     
    #1 Conscious thoughts, Oct 6, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
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  2. Lain

    Lain An Intervallic Time Traveler

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    I get clarity as to what I believe and what they believe while learning new things. Sometimes I am getting my view across because I know they are wrong and this might be done for the benefit of others, other times it is me just being curious and both me and them learn from the discussion (I in this last week had a discussion with a Mormon about their beliefs about this and it was amazing for both of us).

    In other words it depends on the circumstances.
     
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  3. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    I estimate that there are about a 50/50 break between those who critique with an interested question and those simply are out to steal, kill and destroy (metaphor) - the problem is that those out for the destroy are more vocal.
     
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  4. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    In the journey, I have been through I have come to the conclusion that the only one I can critique is my own being. Because if I can not see my own faults and error why would I think I could see It in others.
     
    #4 Conscious thoughts, Oct 6, 2021
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  5. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    That follow the teaching of Jesus when he said "Before you take out the splinter in someone else's eye, take the beam out of yours". Splinters comes from beams and many times we put it there.
     
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  6. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Yes, and when the beam is out, there are still much to keep picking away.
     
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  7. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    Perhaps best ask why those with any religious belief often feel the need to think they are right, not just right, but obviously right (oh, what arrogance), and hence even have to impose their beliefs on their children all too often. Why would we non-believers have a problem with this? Oh, because they all can't be right! :oops:

    PS I gain nothing.
     
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  8. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    But what do you as a person gain yourself, from making critiques of the believers, where does the need for making critique come from? People will be different and will believe different things and some will hold that belief very strongly, but if it does not harm anyone should it be critiqued?
     
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  9. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    fashion is based on outward appearances. a spiritual journey is a state of mind that isn't obsessed with fashion but repurposing.


    a person's beliefs are based on one's culture. one's culture is based on one's environment. so someone living in siberia would not wear the same garments as someone living in the tropics.

    if the thing you're wearing isn't appropriate, change your clothing.

    proselytizing isn't fashionable


     
    #9 Fool, Oct 6, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
  10. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    In my case, it isn't really that I come in the attitude of "I'm obviously right" but rather a defense of "you obviously saying I'm wrong doesn't make it wrong".
     
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  11. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    I think its interesting to hear why people believe what they do, which doesn't really have much to do with religion, but more because im in general interested in belief and how people get to believe different things, what they believe etc. Because to me that is most of what defines us as humans. I will obviously argue against something if I disagree, but not with the purpose of trying to convince someone, but rather for them to clarify what they mean or believe, because it again tells something about how they got to believe it.

    In other cases, I will argue against a belief if I think it is harmful.

    I assume that you mean if its important to convince others? Because if its just to get my view across and opinion, then it is very important, as it would be difficult to communicate if they don't understand what im saying :D

    But convincing others is only important in case I think their beliefs are harmful to themselves or others. Lets say a racist expressing their views, then it would be very important for me to convince them otherwise.

    As I started by saying, a lot of my critique is meant to push or poke peoples beliefs on purpose if I disagree with them, or I don't feel like they have given a good reason for it, which is also automatically to try to understand their views. I hold the belief, that people should be able to defend whatever they believe in by giving a solid explanation for them.

    What I mean by that is not that people shouldn't be able to believe something without having a solid proof, but if someone say that they believe in God, because they were raised to believe it. Then I don't think that is a good reason, as they clearly haven't thought about it then, if that makes sense.
     
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  12. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    So if I understand you correctly, when you ask or even critique someone, you do it out of curiosity and the willingness to learn? If yes, that is a very good way to think :)
     
  13. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    You probably aren't going to like my answers, but they are the truth, and that is at least something:
    1. It's fun. Seeing people who think they have it all figured out squirm in their pants is quite enjoyable. The only reasons I can think to lie about this are in order to mislead people into some false sense of security - to keep up appearances that who they are dealing with might actually care about their opinions or feelings with regard to religion. It's more difficult to do that than it is worth. Better to be honest and straightforward.
    2. I feel that if the world needs anything, it is for all of its human inhabitants to be knocked down a few thousand pegs each. You don't have it figured out. You never will. There are only more questions. Deal with it and stop complaining like a baby.

    It is important for me that people question their own positions often and at length. Very often I have no alternative opinion or view to get across in any "religious" sense. I offer no consoling narrative or fiction of my own to replace whatever it is they feel they might be losing. I would never have such a thing to offer - unless there were a position in that sense that had a ridiculously clear line of evidence pointing to an obvious truth. That hasn't materialized - so until it does, everything is under the gun.

    I was probably more "curious" once - however, having been disappointed time and time and time again with a complete and utter failure of anyone to even begin to understand what would constitute compelling evidence for their religious positions, I would say that I am pretty much jaded at this point. I will assume your religious position is complete crap until you produce something tied to reality that is overtly compelling in nature. Good, solid evidence that you know what you are talking about, and can demonstrate truths or make accurate and repeatable predictions using knowledge solely attainable via your religion.
     
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  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Are we talking about critiquing other belief systems, or critizing them? There is a different meaning to these words:

    Critique

    a detailed analysis and assessment of something, especially a literary, philosophical, or political theory.

    Criticize

    indicate the faults of (someone or something) in a disapproving way.
    "technicians were criticized for defective workmanship"​
     
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  15. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    It does not have to be about religions or religious beliefs at all. just curious what different people get out of making critiques of others.

    I know when I was a very harsh critique myself, what I actually did was only to boost my ego, but I found that to be a foolish path for me, and now I hope to never critique other than myself.
     
  16. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    How can I not like your answer, when you are the one giving the answer for how and why you critique others. It is your views :) and your answer to the OP.
     
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  17. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    That doesn't answer the question. You are using the word critique incorrectly. I believe you mean to say criticize.

    If you look at the definitions of the words I provided they mean different things. How you are using the word critique in context, is not what the definition of that word means.

    Which word do you really mean? Maybe you can change the OP to the correct word if you really mean criticize instead of critique?
     
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  18. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    That might come from me not being a native English speaker.
     
  19. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Which is why I provided the definitions to help guide. I cannot address your question, if you mean something different than the words you are using.

    Briefly, I will look at other religions from various critiques of them to gain understandings into commonalities between them. That can be helpful in my own understanding. Like the title of a book I once saw, but haven't read. "I couldn't be a Christian if it weren't for the Buddha". That indicates a careful consideration of the meanings of other religions, and how that understanding can help one understand their own.

    A criticism of another religion, finding fault with it, may be for different reasons. I can criticizing the Taliban for instance for their inhumanity and disregard of love in the interest of religious control of others. I would offer that exact same criticism, finding fault with, many of the right wing Christian evangelicals for exactly the same reasons.

    But that fault finding, is meant as a warning of what happens when religion and its symbols is co-opted and weaponized for power. That is the same criticism Jesus himself warned of speaking of wolves in sheeps clothing. Those are criticisms, not critiques.

    You see how the different means apply?
     
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  20. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I do see the difference yes :) and fixed the OP
     
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