What do the wealthy spend their money on? It wasn't entirely what I expected

[Revoltingest]

I'm not under the impression that borrowing is the same as spending, given that it needs to be paid back with interest on top of it, which to me is not stimulation of the economy.

Borrowing money is how I've bought, developed, & improved real estate.
This has employed many. Sure, I paid interest. But it was worth it.

 

[sun rise]

Are you referring to cash in a mattress?
Or money in a bank?

I know where you are headed. How much of their investments are all about competition with others like them to see who can be richer or get better returns which includes degrading employees and ripping off customers? Big pharma is one example of profit at any cost destroying lives.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know where you are headed. How much of their investments are all about competition with others like them to see who can be richer or get better returns which includes degrading employees and ripping off customers? Big pharma is one example of profit at any cost destroying lives.

What on Earth does that have to do with your claim about hoarding money?

 

[sun rise]

What on Earth does that have to do with your claim about hoarding money?

That's out of context. What I wrote was

It's those of limited means who keep the economy going because the majority need to buy food, clothing and pay for shelter. The wealthy can spend their money on estates in other nations as well as hording their cash.

The poor and middle-class have to spend their money. The wealthy CAN spend their money but don't have to (ie horde). It was all about who benefits the economy most with, of course, the caveat that the wealthy don't necessarily act in ways that benefit society economically or otherwise.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's out of context. What I wrote was The poor and middle-class have to spend their money. The wealthy CAN spend their money but don't have to (ie horde). It was all about who benefits the economy most with, of course, the caveat that the wealthy don't necessarily act in ways that benefit society economically or otherwise.

OK.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Some one else did show up to work to lay bricks, pipes, wires, hang and paint walls, install electric outlets, move in equipment and inventory, and all the other details and different jobs and certified personnel needed to build a building and business (individual mileage may vary and all that).

And the business owner paid wages for that help.
But they invested no money, & took no risks.
If they want to share in the profits, they should buy stock.

@Shadow Wolf . Revo’s first dig was at Obama’s correct assertion that regarding small businesses, and big business, it wasn’t all from the ground up. Your post actually cites the portions of the businesses that the investors DO provide.

However......those workers got to the new business site on government roads. The phone and electric and water lines that they hooked up to the new buildings were provided by tax dollars. The gas their trucks and generators ran on was backed by and reduced in cost by government intervention. The internet and mail services used to inform them of the jobs, and mail them checks, etc....all came from the nation’s coffers. The very location of the business, the presence of a town or city full of potential customers, with streets and utilities. Government. The supplies needed for the business brought in through harbors, through the mail, on train-lines, etc....etc....etc.... Was. Not. Built. By. the business owner.
Without the all-important infrastructure, your business is hunting and gathering in the woods. And maybe bartering little soapstone carvings for fish.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Shadow Wolf . Revo’s first dig was at Obama’s correct assertion that regarding small businesses, and big business, it wasn’t all from the ground up. Your post actually cites the portions of the businesses that the investors DO provide.

Obama's "correct assertion" that no one builds there business?
That someone does it for them?
Oh, dear.
I think we're too far apart to find common ground.

 

[Nakosis]

Even if money were sitting in a vault or mattress, being out
of circulation would increase the value of money in circulation.
This is the flip side of government printing fiat currency, in which
case diluting the money supply decreases money's value.

Sometimes I think the wealthy get over criticized on some things and ignored on others.

I was a bit surprised to see the CNN piece that does paint an alternate picture on how we view the spending habits of the wealthy in the popular sense.

What the wealthy and ultra-wealthy spend their money on - CNN

In spite of it, I still have some trouble with the piece and view that, as I recall from reading past articles, the most wealthiest people in the US (1% ers) still hold the majority of the country's money in their own accounts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...wealth-than-at-any-time-in-the-past-50-years/

What do you think?

Sorry, my bad. I honestly hadn't read the second link yet.

IMO taken the pie slices, as it is put, from the top 1% and redistributing it to the bottom 20% - 40% is the wrong idea. All you really need to do is teach them folks to bake pies.

Now I know it's not that simple but it is kind of. Who cares there are folks out there who have more pie slices than you when you can bake as many pies or as few as you want.

The wealthy are wealthy because they can create wealth. You just need the teach the rest how to create their own wealth. I don't recall from my public school days any classes on wealth building.

You don't need their pie slices you need their knowledge.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And the business owner paid wages for that help.

Yes. It's a symbiotic relationship, but so often that gets ignored. Without the workers the owner has no business, without the business the workers have no work. We scratch each other's backs, but the cultural mythology is the owners are the only ones doing any back scratching.

& took no risks.

They don't take a risk to their bank account (they typically can't afford to). They take risks to their life and limbs, joints and tendons, ligaments and muscles. It took a president to ensure we even have base-minimums for legal standards when it comes to workplace safety because the belief "they take no risks" is too widely accepted.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

However......those workers got to the new business site on government roads. The phone and electric and water lines that they hooked up to the new buildings were provided by tax dollars. The gas their trucks and generators ran on was backed by and reduced in cost by government intervention.

The investors providing money to the owner as well as this owner are not paying the paychecks of the construction company doing the work. The one doing that is usually the owner of the construction business and is typically some guy (or more commonly gal) running in a million directions at once who only knows how much money they personally have on paper because they don't have enough free time to spend it or look at it with the trillion things they have to do in one day, typically very often including working alongside their employees.
And those government roads in some states are often outsourced to non-government agencies to get them built. Same situation as the above scenario, just different source of funding. Someone else's money bouncing around here-and-there so some grossly underappreciated worker can make the contributions we all equally depend on.
Perhaps even many of the ethical/humanitarian issues of capitalism could be solved if we approached the relationship between worker and owner as one of symbiosis where one inherently needs the other rather than from a perspective of asking who contributes what.
I've also debated Revoltingest enough to know he doesn't really take to Obama's statement as someone on the Left would.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Obama's "correct assertion" that no one builds there business?
That someone does it for them?
Oh, dear.
I think we're too far apart to find common ground.

Obama NEVER said that business people did not build their own business. Just as Gore NEVER said that he invented the internet. You are a victim of out-of-context cherry-picked sound bites.

Or you’ve been carrying a bad joke for far too long.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes. It's a symbiotic relationship, but so often that gets ignored. Without the workers the owner has no business, without the business the workers have no work. We scratch each other's backs, but the cultural mythology is the owners are the only ones doing any back scratching.

That isn't really a myth at all. Everyone in business knows
that it's about organizing the capital & labor of others.
Obama was creating a dishonest straw man in order to
create a greater sense of entitlement among the masses.

They don't take a risk to their bank account (they typically can't afford to). They take risks to their life and limbs, joints and tendons, ligaments and muscles. It took a president to ensure we even have base-minimums for legal standards when it comes to workplace safety because the belief "they take no risks" is too widely accepted.

I don't buy the argument that workers take risks in the sense that entrepreneurs do.
I've been there & done that. None of my workers have ever been injured on the job.
They've always been promptly paid, & had nothing at risk. I was the one who invested
the capital, designed the systems, & worked the long hours getting things up & running.
And when faced with market downturns or legal battles, all the stress was mine. And
in years when there were losses, I alone bore them. (And now here I am boring you.)
This is something that an Obama would never experience or understand.

 

[Revoltingest]

Obama NEVER said that business people did not build their own business. Just as Gore NEVER said that he invented the internet. You are a victim of out-of-context cherry-picked sound bites.

Or you’ve been carrying a bad joke for far too long.

I've listened to the video many times before.
He actually said it.
That is unlike Al Gore, who didn't say what was attributed to him.
As for Obama's context, he was dishonestly creating a straw man,
ie, the myth that entrepreneurs believe they succeed by doing every
task personally without using any infrastructure. He was selling
pure hokum to manipulate the masses into believing they're entitled
to a bigger piece of someone else's pie. Entrepreneurs are no
smarter or harder working, & therefore don't deserve what they've
built. He was selling entitlement to more than what they worked for.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

None of my workers have ever been injured on the job.

I applaud you then. I know many who have been injured from being exposed to unsafe work conditions and environments. And of course basic human error accounts for many of those injured at work. Myself, though one unavoidable work injury I've had is carpal tunnel syndrome. I was also exposed to chlorine gas due to the stupidity and failure to communicate of another (chemicals were mixed when as far as i knew there was just the one). And of course roofing, lumberjacking, and fishing are the trinity of jobs that hurt their workers because of the dangerous and high risk work conditions.

That isn't really a myth at all. Everyone in business knows
that it's about organizing the capital & labor of others.

Organizing capital and labor still depend on others. People aren't born knowing how, and the capital and labor simply is not there without the effort of others. Whether it's an accountant or all those make Menard's happen, it can't happen without other people.
Really, it's kind of like being a stage tech or hand. The show does not happen without them, but the stars get all the credit (and they certainly don't look or sound good without a good tech crew behind them). Of course it is the actors who are on stage, but they are basically on stage naked with a flat, expressionless, and featureless face without the costume designer and makeup artist.

 

[Revoltingest]

Organizing capital and labor still depend on others. People aren't born knowing how, and the capital and labor simply is not there without the effort of others. Whether it's an accountant or all those make Menard's happen, it can't happen without other people.
Really, it's kind of like being a stage tech or hand. The show does not

That's never been in dispute, which is why Obama was so dishonest
with his you-didn't-build-that-somebody-did-it-for-you speech.
It's a manipulative nontroversy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's never been in dispute, which is why Obama was so dishonest
with his you-didn't-build-that-somebody-did-it-for-you speech.
It's a manipulative nontroversy.

It's a pretty matter of fact statement. The owner built the business side. Other people did the rest, including the manual labor to produce a building.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's a pretty matter of fact statement. The owner built the business side. Other people did the rest, including the manual labor to produce a building.

Prevarication is all about saying something which is true,
while the intent is to mislead....to manipulate. And it worked.
The weak minded lapped it up.

 

[Shad]

I'm assuming folks realize that money kept in a bank is invested by the bank. Maybe they think the rich stick money in a vault in their basement. They go visit once a week so they can bask in the glory of a symbol of wealth.

Scrooge McDuck going for a swim.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Scrooge McDuck going for a swim.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Shad]

My thoughts exactly.

Funny how old imagery from childhood, I assume in general, comes to mind decades (for me) later.