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What do Muslims think of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by flysky, Sep 12, 2005.

  1. Mujahid Mohammed

    Mujahid Mohammed Well-Known Member

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    Salam, brothers Remember there were a group of Jews and Christians who believed in Allah and in the Messenger he sent. when Allah is talking about the Jews and Christians he is talking about those Jews in the time of their prophet who accepted the message. In the time of Moses there were some who believed and disbelieved. Do you remember the story of Salman al Farisi. When he left his home because they were fire worshippers and joined some Christians who believed in Allah and in the original message of Jesus and they told him about the awaited prophet Mohammed. Just the same when Allah is talking about the believers and disbelievers he is not talking about us as Muslims or any other people living today. He is talking about THOSE PEOPLE LIVING BACK THEN. The Prophet and his Companions ie. the Salafs. and the Kufr or disbelieving nation of every prophet. Allah says that no nation has existed without getting the message of Islam. So if people die in any other state other than submission they will be the dwellers of the fire.
     
  2. Met0047

    Met0047 Member

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    The holy books you believe in are wrong because they were editted and written by man not by GOD except islam.
     
  3. Fatmop

    Fatmop Active Member

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    There are a whole HOST of reasons one could consider any holy books 'wrong...' being editted by man is certainly ONE of them, though it is nowhere near a complete refutation.
     
  4. IslamicMuslimah

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    i didnt read all of what person said but it isnt that our minds cant imagine it... it is that if you think god had a son... how can his son be him... that sounds like something back from my home state... well indirectly my homestate.. Arkansas... see the movie the stupids... that is what it is... god is god... he isnt his own son... and himself lol it doesnt work like that... and it shouldnt have said sexual anything

    babies are formed from nutfah..(seman) and an egg from a woman... and that is what should have been said at the beginning... please muslims if we are going to tell people things use the correct terminology.. i dont like cleaning things up... we are muslims we shouldnt make mistakes like this... it can cause problems
     
  5. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    as i can see there are many questions and if we answered it all at once that would make us lost in the middle and the topic will expand without getting real answers so i guess it's better to slow down and to pick one question only at a time for both of us to discuss. I guess you started a thread already about Quran vs. Bible and i hope it will be the start for a discussion step by step and we can remain in this thread picking one question to answer by both of us if you want so.

    waiting for your respond.
     
  6. HOGCALLER

    HOGCALLER Active Member

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    The Truth,

    Several days had past without a reply and you were posting in other threads so I thought, perhaps wrongly, that you were not going to reply. I am sorry if I was mistaken about what was going on with you. But also I had ask you repeatedly to answer some of my questions and was not satisfied with the answers. This is not my thread and I did not want to change the subject away from discussing Jesus, even though we did get a little sidetracked discussing hell, so I started the new thread.

    I have told you before and it is still true, I am enjoying our discussion. I do hope to continue it and I look forward to going back through the large amount of information we have exchanged and getting down to the details and finer points of each others arguments.

    Hope to read your reply soon.

    .
     
  7. Qabandi

    Qabandi Member

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    I as a muslim dont beleave that Jesus peace be upon him is son of God becouse that would lower God to a lower level , besides God in the bible used the word "SON" many times , not only to Jesus PBUH , people just assumed in a snap that Jesus PBUH is actully son of God. And in hebrew Son Of God mean Servant Of God , what you think about that ? if you say this is wrong then how come God in the bible said that Adam PBUH is his son , and that people isreal are his sons , does God mean that every and each one of them is Gods Son wich means all of the are Gods ?
     
  8. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    Sorry for the delay and i feel bad about it that you would think i ignored this thread but i was going through all what we discussed about so far and i was gathering more information so i can answer you using the most accurate material and i pologize again if you thought i left just like that. Actually, i was just trying to provide more information for you from several materials and i hope now that we pick only one of what we have discussed so far and it's the best for both of us too to not expand so much in details in many sevral topics at once that may be fair to be deal with in separate threads.

    looking forward for your reply as soon as possible for my suggestion.
     
  9. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    I think it's better to use what we discussed about the Quran in here into your new thread step by step and we discuss anything releated to Jesus in this thread.

    What do you think?
     
  10. HOGCALLER

    HOGCALLER Active Member

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    The Truth,

    That sounds like a plan to me.

    .
     
  11. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    What kind of plan?

    I didn't understand what do you mean but anyway it's up to you whether you want me to answer the things you posted about Quran in here or there.

    It was just to make it in a nice way instead of talking in many topics at once.

    The choice is for you to decide. :)
     
  12. HOGCALLER

    HOGCALLER Active Member

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    The Truth,

    Let me go all the way back to flysky’s original post in this thread and ask you a question. Hopefully we can then move forward from there through the things already said, trying to stay with the topic of Jesus, and clarifying as we go. That is also what I understood you to say we should do and that I thought was a plan.

    OK, here is what flysky said:

    “Muslims think highly of Jesus (P) and his worthy mother, Mary. The Quran tells us that Jesus was born of a miraculous birth without a father. "Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, and then He said unto him: Be and he is" (Quran 3.59). He was given many miracles as a prophet. These include speaking soon after his birth in defense of his mother's piety. God's other gifts to him included healing the blind and the sick, reviving the dead, making a bird out of clay and most importantly, the message he was carrying. These miracles were given to him by God to establish him as a prophet. According to the Quran, he was not crucified but was raised into Heaven. (Quran, Chapter Maryam)”

    Most of what is said there does not agree what the Bible says. That is the reason for the other thread and not what I want to ask you about now.

    My question is: What is the purpose severed by the miraculous birth of Jesus? Oh yes I know all about the fact that it was prophesied but why? Why is it that God made one prophet superior in his birth over ALL the other prophets? What was the need; what was the reason; what was the purpose served by Jesus’ special birth? What need was met or requirement fulfilled by the fact that Jesus did not have a human father?

    Also, how is it and why is it that Jesus alone by passes the Judgment and the Resurrection and went straight to heaven without sleeping in death?



    .
     
  13. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    For the first question this is the answer:

    In the Quran, Mary's story begins while she is still in her mother's womb. The mother of Mary, said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate into Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: For Thou hearest and knowest all things." (Quran 3:35).​

    She wanted the baby in her womb to serve only the Creator. When Mary was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!" (Quran 3:36). She had expected her baby to be a male child who would grow up to be a scholar or religious leader. However, God had a better plan. God is the best of planners. Quran 3:36 continues "…and God knew best what she brought forth- 'And no wise is the male like the female. I have named her Mariam, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from Satan, the Rejected.'" Mariam literally means "maidservant of God."​

    In Quran 3:37, God states that He accepted Mary as her mother had asked. He made Mary grow in purity and beauty. She was assigned to the care of a priest named Zacharias. This is interesting considering few women were given this opportunity.​

    "Every time that he entered (her) chamber to see her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: 'O Mary! Whence (comes) this to you?' She said: 'From God. for God provides sustenance to whom He pleases without measure.'" (Quran 3:37). Upon hearing Mary's answer, "There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying: 'O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!'" (Quran 3:38).​

    Although his wife was barren and he was very old, God blesses Zacharias and his wife Elizabeth with John. John is known as "John the Baptist" in the Bible. Zacharias was skeptical after the angels announced John's birth. The response to his skepticism was "Doth God accomplish what He willeth" (Quran 3:40). John would become a noble and chaste Prophet as the angels had stated (Quran 3:39).​

    (( As you know the one who serve God at that time dosn't get married )) until now the people who serve the church too can't get married.​

    continue:​

    The Quran discusses Mary's miraculous conception as well. "Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her Our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects." (Quran 19:16-17). After seeing the angel, she said: "I seek refuge from thee to (God) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear God." (Quran 19:18). The angel Gabriel responded: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a pure son." (Quran 19:19). Her next response is expected. She asked: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (Quran 19:20). The Angel Gabriel said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us.' It is a matter (so) decreed." (Quran 19:21). Mary then becomes pregnant.​

    Jesus is a Prophet and a Messenger. A Messenger is a Prophet who is given revelation from God. Whereas the Torah was revealed to Moses, the Gospel was revealed to Jesus. Messengers are a mercy, guidance, and sign from God. "And God will teach him (Jesus) the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel, and (appoint him) as a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message):​

    'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave. And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I bring the dead into life, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe. (I have come to you) to attest the Torah which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you. I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'" (Quran 3:48-51).​

    God appointed messengers to help us answer questions such as: What happens after I die? What's right and wrong? Does a supernatural world exist? What's the purpose of my creation? Jesus was calling people to the worship of only God. Only by God's leave was Jesus able to perform miracles.​

    "When Jesus found unbelief on their (the disciples) part he said: 'Who will be my helpers to (the work of) God?" Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.'" (Quran 3:52).​
     
  14. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    continue:

    After conceiving Jesus, Mary went away with the baby to a distant place (Quran 19:22). "And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree. She cried (in her anguish): 'Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten!'" (Quran 19:23). "But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): 'Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee; And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee. So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to (God) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.'" (Quran 19:24-26).
    Joseph, the magi, and manger are not mentioned in the Quran. God was Mary's only Provider. Muslims do not accept the virgin birth of Jesus as evidence of Jesus' divinity. "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be.' And he was." (Quran 3:59). Adam's creation was even more miraculous because he was born without father and mother. When she brings the baby to her people, they said: "O Mary! truly a strange thing has thou brought! O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" (Quran 19:27-8). Mary then points to the baby. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?" (Quran 19:29). Then a miracle occurs that is not mentioned in the Bible. In defense of his mother, Jesus said: "I am indeed a servant of God. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (He hath made me) kind to my mother, and not overbearing or unblest; So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!" (Quran 19:30-33).
    The virgin birth of Jesus was a sign. "And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples." (Quran 21:91). All previous Prophets confirmed the oneness of God, Tawheed. Whereas the Holy Trinity is the fundamental concept of God in Christianity, Tawheed is the fundamental concept of God in Islam. God exists independent of religion. Muslims do not believe in the concept of Holy Trinity (Quran 5:73). God is not Jesus (Quran 5:72). On the Day of Judgment, when Jesus is asked if he had called people to worship him and his mother as two gods, Jesus will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden." (Quran 5:116).
    People should not worship any of God's creation, including Jesus and Mary. We must not assign any of God's creation His divine attributes and characteristics. "He is God the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise." (Qur'an 59:24).
    Although God can do all things, He only does things that are consistent with His fundamental nature. Begetting a son is not consistent with God's magnificent nature (Quran 19:92, Quran 19:35). Consistent with His fundamental nature is forgiveness. Although Adam and Eve could no longer live in the Paradise, God forgave Adam and Eve for their sin after they sincerely repented (Quran 2:35-37). We are responsible for our own deeds and will not be punished for the deeds of another person (Quran 53:38-42). Therefore, Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin. Although Adam and Eve were punished, God would still be merciful by sending Guidance to mankind. "We said: 'Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve.'" (Quran 2:38).
    When people hear the term Islam, they naturally tend to think of the organized religion of Islam which started in the 7th century CE with prophet Mohammed. However, in Arabic the word Islam comes from the root "salema" which means peace, purity, submission, and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means peace and purity achieved by submitting to the will of God and obedience to His law. Muslims are those who submit. Muslims believe that all those who submitted to the will of God in line with divine revelation received before the advent of formal Islam with prophet Mohammed, were themselves also Muslim. So coming from this understanding, Muslims believe that we are part of one continuing faith community with Jesus and Mary. Mary, Jesus, and the disciples were all "Muslims" because they submitted to God.
    "Behold! the angels said: 'O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee - chosen thee above the women of all nations. O Mary! worship thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down.'" (Quran 3:42-43).
    Another Prophet with a message similar to Jesus' would later be born in Arabia in the sixth century. He also called people to the worship of only God. Although unable to read and write, Muhammad (peace be upon him) would recite beautiful verses of the Quran as they were revealed to him. The Quran is a beautiful miracle, a sign, a mercy, a warner, and a guidance for all people. Muhammad is the last Prophet from a line of Prophets that included Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (peace be upon them). All Prophets were models for righteous living. Muhammad's sunnah, his sayings, example, and traditions, is also considered revelation. His sunnah is expressed in various books of Haddith.
    "Indeed in the Messenger of God you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) God and the Last Day, and remembers God much." (Quran 33:21).
    God created all people to worship Him and to live life based on His teachings and guidance. "And hold fast, all together, by the Rope which God (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude God's favor on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth God make His Signs clear to you that ye may be guided." (Quran 3:103).
    "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost." (Quran 3:85).
    We accomplish this by bearing witness to God's oneness and accepting His final revelation in our daily lives. "O ye who believe! Fear God as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam." (Quran 3:102).
    There is none worthy of worship but God, and Muhammad is His messenger.
     
  15. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    Because we believe that he was a human being and they didn't kill him nor crucify him but they just THOUGHT that and that God made him assended to the sky and definitely he will come down again before the judgment day.:)
     
  16. HOGCALLER

    HOGCALLER Active Member

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    The Truth,

    I appreciate all the information, much of which I already knew, but there may be others readers that are not familiar with Islamic beliefs and it will be of interest to them, HOWEVER, as usual, other than the last little add-on, you almost totally ignored my questions. So let me ask again and see if I can get you to give me a straightforward and meaningful answer.

    My question is: What is the purpose severed by the miraculous birth of Jesus? Oh yes I know all about the fact that it was prophesied but why? Why is it that God made one prophet superior in his birth over ALL the other prophets? What was the need; what was the reason; what was the purpose served by Jesus’ miraculous birth? What need was met or requirement fulfilled by the fact that Jesus did not have a human father?

    The Truth, in the Bible there is a reason, a definite reason why Jesus was born without a human father. I can share it with you if you would like to know it; and it definitely has nothing to do with the trinity doctrine or the divinity of Jesus (I guess you keep forgetting that I do not believe in either of those doctrines.) Anyway, I understand the whys, the needs that had to be met, the requirements that had to be fulfilled and therefore I understand why there needed to be a miraculous birth of Jesus according to the consistency and continuity of the Bible’s teachings and you know what I am referring to: Original sin and the atonement sacrifice. In the Bible the miraculous birth is irreplaceable; it has to be there; nothing works without it.

    But as I pointed out above the Quranic version is almost totally different from that of the Bible's. That being the case, the question that comes to my mind is, “Why reject and contradict almost everything else about Jesus but retain the miraculous birth part?” Obviously there must be a good reason why Jesus could not have had a human father like all the rest of the prophets, but what is it? What purpose does it serve in the Quranic version?

    When God provided Abraham and Sarah a miraculous birth that produced Isaac there was a purposed served, a reason for it, it signified something then and down through history it came to be even more significant or important. In the Quran what is the need for a miraculous birth of Jesus? What does it mean? What does it tell us that we need to know?

    It certainly was not a sign to the Jews while Jesus was alive and preaching in Israel—no one knew about it at that time. And Jesus is not recorded as making a big deal of it. There were many signs given to Jesus that did get the people’s attention but the details his birth were revealed by holy spirit after his death. So what was the need and the purpose and the requirement that would make God go to all the effort instead of using anormal man as he had always done before?

    Do you understand my question and can you please answer it?

    .
     
  17. HOGCALLER

    HOGCALLER Active Member

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    Qabandi,

    You say: I as a muslim dont beleave that Jesus peace be upon him is son of God becouse that would lower God to a lower level , besides God in the bible used the word "SON" many times , not only to Jesus PBUH , people just assumed in a snap that Jesus PBUH is actully son of God. And in hebrew Son Of God mean Servant Of God , what you think about that ? if you say this is wrong then how come God in the bible said that Adam PBUH is his son , and that people isreal are his sons , does God mean that every and each one of them is Gods Son wich means all of the are Gods ?

    Please consider: Unfortunately you are very much mistaken about the phrase “son of God” meaning “servant of God” in the Bible. Although I did not do an exhaustive search, I did not find any example of what you claim, that is that “son of God” = “servant of God.” Since you are the one that has made the claim it is on you to provide the proof of what you say.

    You ask: “what you think about that ?”

    My answer is: Typical Islamic bluffs and bluster without a shred of proof (truth) to back it up! If you want to tell about what the Quran says, please go ahead. But it seems that every time you say anything about the Bible it is some outrageous claim or other with absolutely no proof. In short you do not know what you are talking about when you claim you are talking about what the Bible really says.

    Not only that but I can show you examples of exactly the opposite of what you claim! Please note that I will now backup what I say with the proof: (Genesis 6:1-2) “Now it came about that when men started to grow in numbers on the surface of the ground and daughters were born to them, 2 then the sons of the [true] God began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves, namely, all whom they chose.”

    The “sons of the true God” does not mean the “servants of God” for that verse is referring to the demons that had materialized human bodies and taken human wives. So we see how very little you about what the Bible really says. Again, what you said is incorrect, son does not equal servant.

    You say: “does God mean that every and each one of them is Gods Son wich means all of the are Gods ?”

    You might consider reading the thread! The Truth and I discussed the answer to that question and it can be found in reply #59 of this thread or you can follow this link (hopefully sometimes my links do not work) to that answer: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=241049#post241049

    I do not believe Jesus is God Almighty, that is to say Jehovah, but Jesus is a god just as Moses was a god and as many other are also, follow the link to read the proof from the Bible—unlike you I backup up what I say with examples from the Bible.

    Also, Jesus is the very first creature God made and then through Jesus God made everything else that was created. That makes Jesus only begotten because he is the only creature made directly by God. Everything else was created by God but through Jesus. That relationship is first described for us at Proverbs 8:22-31: “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”

    When it came time for the Messiah to be born, God did not take dirt and create Jesus and put him inside Mary’s womb, no, rather he used his holy spirit to transfer the life of that first-born son or first-created being into Mary’s womb where he then grew into the man we now call Jesus. (John 3:13, “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.”)

    The Jews refused to accept Jesus because he was God’s son and they were wrong! The Muslims also refuse to accept the truth about Jesus, no, not that Jesus is the Almighty God, but the truth that Jesus is the Son of God sent to earth by God to do God’s will and to show us how to live.

    Why is it both Jews and Muslims have the same mistaken belief about Jesus?

    .
     
  18. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
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    Please don't think i'm ignoring but your problem is that YOU want me to give you a specific reason in your mind that may conflict with the one i believe in so when you ask about Quran please try to understand well the purpose according to Quran not according to what you think or expect from Quran to tell you. This problem i guess is because you THINK what you believe in is a 100% right for sure and of course you have the right to believe in what you think is the right for you but when you deal with Quran you have to focus for the purpose in quran by God but not for the purpose and reasons in the bible and that's ONLY because we are discussing about Jesus in Quran.

    I guess you didn't focus in my pervious post so i'll make a summary for what i have said before

    Firstly, In the Quran, Mary's story begins while she is still in her mother's womb and she wanted her baby to serve in the house of God at that time so The mother of Mary, said: ​

    "O my Lord! I do dedicate into Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: For Thou hearest and knowest all things." (Quran 3:35).​

    She wanted the baby in her womb to serve only the Creator. When Mary was delivered:​

    Secondly, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!" (Quran 3:36). She had expected her baby to be a male child who would grow up to be a scholar or religious leader because a man only at that time has the right to serve in God's house.​

    However, God had a better plan. God is the best of planners. Quran 3:36 continues "…and God knew best what she brought forth- 'And no wise is the male like the female. I have named her Mariam, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from Satan, the Rejected.'" Mariam literally means "maidservant of God."​

    She was assigned to the care of a priest named Zacharias. This is interesting considering few women were given this opportunity.


    (( As you know the one who serve God at that time CAN NOT get married )) and until now the people who serve in the church too are not allowed to get married.​


    continue:​


    "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" ​

    Now focus in the reason ...

    (Quran 19:20). The Angel Gabriel said: "So (it will be): thy Lord saith, 'That is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us.' It is a matter (so) decreed." (Quran 19:21). Mary then becomes pregnant.​

    Thirsdly, as you can see in the verse it was EASY for God to create Jesus this way and he gave him alot of signs even a bigger sign than his miracleous birth.

    Jesus is a Prophet and a Messenger. A Messenger is a Prophet who is given revelation from God. Whereas the Torah was revealed to Moses, the Gospel was revealed to Jesus. Messengers are a mercy, guidance, and sign from God. "And God will teach him (Jesus) the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel, and (appoint him) as a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message):​

    1- 'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, ​
    2- in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave.​
    3- And I heal those born blind, ​
    4- and the lepers, ​
    5- and I bring the dead into life, by God's leave; ​
    6- and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses.​

    Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe. (I have come to you) to attest the Torah which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you. I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'" (Quran 3:48-51).​

    Finally, As you can see his bith was just one miracle of the several miracles giving to Jesus Christ (PBUH) and it was so EASY for God to do this miracle as one of the signs that Jesus has and the main reason that Jesus must achieve through what God gave him of signs the purpose of his messgae and the reason for why God sent him to people which is to worship God alone and to obey his law.

    "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be.' And he was." (Quran 3:59). Adam's creation was even more miraculous because he was born without father and mother.


    Consistent with His fundamental nature is forgiveness. Although Adam and Eve could no longer live in the Paradise, God forgave Adam and Eve for their sin after they sincerely repented (Quran 2:35-37). We are responsible for our own deeds and will not be punished for the deeds of another person (Quran 53:38-42). Therefore, Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin.


    Although Adam and Eve were punished, God would still be merciful by sending Guidance to mankind. "We said: 'Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve.'" (Quran 2:38).

    I hope that i answered you clearly this time.:)
     
  19. TashaN

    TashaN Veteran Member
    Premium Member

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    I'll tell you what brother Qabandi was referring to.

    If you studied the bible clearly you will notice that sons of God apeard in many places in the bible and each time was referring to different thing than the verse before and i'll show you an evidence "a proof" because you said that we have no proof. So, try to focus in it and do your research before you answer me because i don't want you to give me assumption from what you have taught or some theories from your understanding but i want you to do more reasearches the same as me when i talk in any topic i used to do my researches whether about Quran or about anything else and i never depend in the little knowledge i have only but i gain knowlege more and more everyday.

    (pleaese notice that the words in blue is from the website itself excatly)

    One of the most intriguing mysteries in the Scriptures is "who were the sons of God" in Genesis 6? Scholars have written many articles on this topic and the Sons of God have been defined as Ancient Astronauts, fallen angels, demonic giants, sons of Cain, and regular angels gone bad.

    http://www.jpdawson.com/ttnet/ttchap12N.html

    The word “son” (ben) has a far wider meaning in Hebrew than it does in contemporary English use,and occurs some 4,850 times in the Hebrew Bible.12 The most common meaning is of a son, as in the male offspring of his parents (e.g., Genesis 5:4), but in general terms the word refers to a variety of relationships in which a person or object belongs to, or is influenced by, someone or something. A son could be a citizen of a city (Psalm 147:13), a student (Proverbs 1:10), or an arrow (Job 41:28). The expression
    “sons of God” refers to some entity somehow connected or related to God, but whether by birth, creation, ownership, or characteristic, it is impossible to say from the phrase alone. The only way to examine the issue further is to study the use of the phrase in Scripture and other literature sources.
    The phrase “sons of ‘elohim” is used in Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7, as well as in Genesis 6:2,4. In each of the former cases, the reference is to angels. Psalms 29:1 and 89:7 use the phrase “sons of ‘elim,” which may refer to heavenly objects. “Sons of ‘elyon” (Psalm 82:6) may refer to the elders of Israel.13 Daniel (3:25) uses the phrase “like a son of ‘elohin,” which has reference to spiritual beings of some description. In addition,
    God’s chosen nation Israel often is portrayed as the spiritual son or child of God (cf. Deuteronomy 32:5; Isaiah 45:11; 43:6; Jeremiah 3:4; Hosea 1:10; 11:1). Apart from the latter usage, Hendel sees parallels in terminology with Ugaritic and other Semitic mythology in which, for instance, “the chief god of the pantheon, El, is called ‘ab bn il, ‘father of the sons of El,’ which indicates that the term bn il originally included the notion of the patrimony of El.”14 In a similar vain, Kline would interpret the “sons of God” as a parallel to the “pagan ideology of divine kingship,” which was borrowed as a designation for antediluvian kings.15 However, while the influence of related cultures on Hebrew literature must not be ignored, the uniqueness of the passage under consideration should serve as a caution against the over exuberant comparison
    of Scripture with pagan mythology. Interpretations (as opposed to simple definitions) drawn from other cultures may serve as an unnecessary imposition on the text, especially in this case where the concept of divine patrimony has such a wide range of use, even within the Hebrew Bible itself. The whole point here is that a precise meaning as to who or what the “sons of God” are, cannot be gained simply from a study of the phrase divorced from either its immediate or broader context. As I will show in the
    following sections, various meanings have been proposed, but these must be assessed according to the plausibility of the explanation with respect to the context as outlined previously.


    http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/reprints/Sons-of-God-in-Genesis-6.pdf

    and read please also:

    http://www.cresourcei.org/biblestudy/bbjob2.html

    I'm not in a hurry to see your answer because i'm trying to discuss WITH you but not against each other as you said before and that we are not looking for who is the winner because there is no point in that as you know.

    Just read the links i posted and do your own research and then after that reply to me according to the thing you really think it's the right thing but not what the others taught you to SUPPOSED to be the right thing.:)
     
  20. HOGCALLER

    HOGCALLER Active Member

    Joined:
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    The Truth,

    Would it not have been much easier just to say, “In Islam the special birth of Jesus has no special meaning or significance.”

    Two lengthy replies and that is all you really said!


    .
     
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