What do I care?

[RestlessSoul]

Sure it is. I have empathy for lots of folks who got COVID, but not for the people in the OP.

It's like having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while crossing the street, but not having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while sitting down in the middle of a busy highway.

I think what you're saying is, you withhold your empathy from those you judge to be undeserving of it?

Which makes me think you haven't quite grasped the concept.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Sure it is. I have empathy for lots of folks who got COVID, but not for the people in the OP.

It's like having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while crossing the street, but not having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while sitting down in the middle of a busy highway.

You judge empathy by ones choices and intentions?

That would mean you only care about near half the population if that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No. it prevents the virus from going from person to person. it is a filter, not a shield.

Prove it. Your bandana isn't a hazmat suit.

 

[Polymath257]

Prove it. Your bandana isn't a hazmat suit.

No, it isn't. And nobody claimed it is.

The mask is a preventative that *helps* prevent the spread *when properly used*. It is not 100%. But it *is* a significant help and can make it so that spread in the population is significantly reduced. Together with vaccinations, this can allow us to get to herd immunity, where transmission is very rare.

As it is, with no masks and way too many unvaccinated people, it is easy for the virus to find another host and so can continue to spread. Also, if a mutation (variant) appears, it can find hosts readily and spread.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No, it isn't. And nobody claimed it is.

The mask is a preventative that *helps* prevent the spread *when properly used*. It is not 100%. But it *is* a significant help and can make it so that spread in the population is significantly reduced. Together with vaccinations, this can allow us to get to herd immunity, where transmission is very rare.

As it is, with no masks and way too many unvaccinated people, it is easy for the virus to find another host and so can continue to spread. Also, if a mutation (variant) appears, it can find hosts readily and spread.

Sorry not buying it.
I've mentioned this before, but maybe not here: my dad's health declined after taking the shots. Maybe it's coincidence. But even through elderly, he was able to do much he now cannot.
I will take my chances with covid over the possible side effects of a largely untested vaccine which is already obselete.

 

[Polymath257]

Sorry not buying it.
I've mentioned this before, but maybe not here: my dad's health declined after taking the shots. Maybe it's coincidence. But even through elderly, he was able to do much he now cannot.
I will take my chances with covid over the possible side effects of a largely untested vaccine which is already obselete.

It is NOT obsolete. It has been extensively tested, even in the real world (hundreds of millions vaccinated at this point).

It is far, far, far better to get the shots than it is to get COVID.

But, this type of behavior is nothing new. When masks were recommended for the Spanish flu, some people balked. Many died. When the polio vaccine came out, some people refused to get it. Fortunately most people did. It worked.

In this pandemic, it seems that there are some that *consistently* refuse to listen to reason and thereby put themselves *and others* at risk. This is NOT just a bad flu. This is NOT a hoax. And masks and vaccines *help*. They are NOT a cure, but they are a help in the fight. And if people acted like adults and not little children, we would be in a much better position now than we are. We could have prevented hundreds of thousands of deaths.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Yeah, I know we have plenty of COVID and vaccine threads, but I saw two things this morning that led me to the same point.....if these people get COVID and die (or get terribly sick and suffer long-term effects), am I supposed to care? Am I supposed to feel bad for them? Am I supposed to feel empathy?

First up, attendees at a St. Louis County Council meeting regarding mask mandates, this happened to the Director of the Dept. of Health...

"After my presentation was completed, I tried to leave the chamber but was confronted by several people who were in the aisle," Khan wrote. "On more than one occasion, I was shoulder-bumped and pushed. As I approached the exit and immediately outside the chambers, I became surrounded by the crowd in close quarters, where members of the crowd yelled at me, calling me a 'fat brown c--t' and a 'brown *******.'”​

After the meeting, it was revealed that one person there has tested positive for COVID.

Then there's notorious hate preacher Greg Locke. You have to watch, as me trying to describe it wouldn't adequately capture the combination of lunacy and anger. https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1421886805427867654?s=20

So let's say some of the people at the STL County meeting and/or at Locke's service get COVID and die. You know what my reaction is? A big shrug of the shoulders, a smirk, and "Oh well". I have absolutely no inclination towards empathy or anything like that. In fact, what I actually fight is the instinct in the other direction, namely thinking "Good! One less hateful dumb a** in the population!"

Maybe I'm just getting old and jaded, but I've gotten to the point where I make no apologies for feeling this way. Sometimes, some people get exactly what they deserve.

If only Covid was so discriminating. Covid don't care about your politics. Covid don't care what you think it is real or not, whether it was natural or created, a weapon or an accident. It will kill you just the same.

 

[Wandering Monk]

From what I've seen (and surveys support), they don't look at much of anything outside of right-wing media (Fox News mostly).


It ain't easy, trust me. I live in a very conservative part of the country, and every trip into town carries the risk of a confrontation. Just the other day a coworker told a story of how he and his wife were threatened and almost assaulted just for wearing masks. Thankfully someone else (indirectly) stopped it.

For some reason Trumpists are now getting angry at people for even wearing a mask, thereby showing that their rhetoric about "personal choice" and "freedom" was a load of crap.

When confronted, just tell them you are getting chemotherapy for cancer. See if that shuts them up.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Sorry not buying it.
I've mentioned this before, but maybe not here: my dad's health declined after taking the shots. Maybe it's coincidence. But even through elderly, he was able to do much he now cannot.
I will take my chances with covid over the possible side effects of a largely untested vaccine which is already obselete.

Obsolete? In what way?

 

[Wandering Monk]

While masks have been helpful in reducing transmission for Alpha, I expect that, even with masks, transmission of Delta will be higher since its viral concentration in throat and nose is more than 1000 time higher than Alpha.

 

[Polymath257]

One issue I have seen in this discussion (and others) is the prevalence of black/white thinking.

Either masks work 100% or they are useless. Either a disease kills 100% or it is merely an inconvenience. Either we know everything or we know nothing. Either a vaccine is 100% without side effects or it is dangerous. Either the experts are correct 100% of the time or they can be ignored.

The real world isn't black and white like this. Any course of action carries risks. But some courses of action involve much more risk than others. Some lead to hundreds of thousands dying unnecessarily and others keep the death toll to a few thousand. People can survive COVID but have long term disabilities from it (organ damage, etc). What works for one variant might not work for others. And it is an evolving situation where even the experts are trying to find the basic data they need to give good recommendations. That doesn't mean they aren't experts in the subject.

We need to get away from black/white thinking and dealing with the messy realities and learning hot to *mitigate* risks even if they are not eliminated.

 

[Wandering Monk]

One issue I have seen in this discussion (and others) is the prevalence of black/white thinking.

Either masks work 100% or they are useless. Either a disease kills 100% or it is merely an inconvenience. Either we know everything or we know nothing. Either a vaccine is 100% without side effects or it is dangerous. Either the experts are correct 100% of the time or they can be ignored.

The real world isn't black and white like this. Any course of action carries risks. But some courses of action involve much more risk than others. Some lead to hundreds of thousands dying unnecessarily and others keep the death toll to a few thousand. People can survive COVID but have long term disabilities from it (organ damage, etc). What works for one variant might not work for others. And it is an evolving situation where even the experts are trying to find the basic data they need to give good recommendations. That doesn't mean they aren't experts in the subject.

We need to get away from black/white thinking and dealing with the messy realities and learning hot to *mitigate* risks even if they are not eliminated.

I wonder if these people won't go bowling because they can't get a 300 game?

 

[ecco]

Then there's notorious hate preacher Greg Locke. You have to watch, as me trying to describe it wouldn't adequately capture the combination of lunacy and anger. https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1421886805427867654?s=20

Disgusting. I could only watch part of it. He yells and screams that no one will wear masks in his church (actually a tent).

Like you, I have no sympathy for him or those in his congregation. Maybe we need to establish Federal enclaves and ship all people like him and his followers to it and let them infect each other.

I sent the following to CBS's feedback...

Maybe it's time to stop tap dancing around the real Covid problem. Gayle keeps wringing her hair wondering why people are "Covid vaccine hesitant". The answers are out there. Why is CBS, and the rest of the media, ignoring them?
White Evangelicals Resist Covid-19 Vaccine Most Among Religious Groups - WSJ
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1421886805427867654?s=20
It's time to start telling the truth. But you would rather ignore the unpleasant truth than lose a few sponsors.​

 

[ecco]

In fact, what I actually fight is the instinct in the other direction, namely thinking "Good! One less hateful dumb a** in the population!"

Maybe I'm just getting old and jaded, but I've gotten to the point where I make no apologies for feeling this way. Sometimes, some people get exactly what they deserve.

Ditto!

 

[ecco]

We need to get away from black/white thinking and dealing with the messy realities and learning hot to *mitigate* risks even if they are not eliminated.

One issue I have seen in this discussion (and others) is the prevalence of black/white thinking.

Where does that come from? Religion.
Good vs Evil. God vs Satan. Male or female. Gay or straight.

Simplistic thinking is ingrained into the very religious from before they can walk and talk.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Where does that come from? Religion.
Good vs Evil. God vs Satan. Male or female. Gay or straight.

Simplistic thinking is ingrained into the very religious from before they can walk and talk.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell

 

[ecco]

Are you seriously suggesting that piece of cloth makes you virus proof?

Did someone make comments about black and white thinking?

Here we have a perfect example of it - once again.

 

[ecco]

Sorry not buying it.
I've mentioned this before, but maybe not here: my dad's health declined after taking the shots. Maybe it's coincidence. But even through elderly, he was able to do much he now cannot.

Do you really want to play the anecdote game?

I'm elderly. I got the shot. I had a slightly sore arm the next day for a few hours. I have had no side effects whatsoever.

I have a forty-year-old relative. Before the vaccine became available to her, she got a very mild case of Covid. No hospitalization was needed. Now, months later, she is counted among the long-haulers. She suffers from fatigue and pain and occasional mental acuity lapses.

I will take my chances with covid over the possible side effects of a largely untested vaccine which is already obselete.

Your above comment shows your ignorance on multiple levels.

Since all the information out there belies your comment, I'll rephrase.

Your above comment shows your wilful ignorance on multiple levels.​

 

[Jose Fly]

I think what you're saying is, you withhold your empathy from those you judge to be undeserving of it?

A better way to put it would be that I don't have empathy for people who not only ignore public health guidelines and warnings, but flaunt them and attack others who follow them....and then end up getting sick.

Which makes me think you haven't quite grasped the concept.

Not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Jose Fly]

You judge empathy by ones choices and intentions?

Yes. If someone drives drunk and gets in a wreck, I don't feel bad for them. If someone jumps into the tiger exhibit at the zoo and gets attacked, I don't feel bad for them. If someone ignores evacuation orders, stays home during a wildfire, and gets burned I don't feel bad for them.

That would mean you only care about near half the population if that.

It's not a numbers issue for me.