What do I care?

[Jose Fly]

Yeah, I know we have plenty of COVID and vaccine threads, but I saw two things this morning that led me to the same point.....if these people get COVID and die (or get terribly sick and suffer long-term effects), am I supposed to care? Am I supposed to feel bad for them? Am I supposed to feel empathy?

First up, attendees at a St. Louis County Council meeting regarding mask mandates, this happened to the Director of the Dept. of Health...

"After my presentation was completed, I tried to leave the chamber but was confronted by several people who were in the aisle," Khan wrote. "On more than one occasion, I was shoulder-bumped and pushed. As I approached the exit and immediately outside the chambers, I became surrounded by the crowd in close quarters, where members of the crowd yelled at me, calling me a 'fat brown c--t' and a 'brown *******.'”​

After the meeting, it was revealed that one person there has tested positive for COVID.

Then there's notorious hate preacher Greg Locke. You have to watch, as me trying to describe it wouldn't adequately capture the combination of lunacy and anger. https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1421886805427867654?s=20

So let's say some of the people at the STL County meeting and/or at Locke's service get COVID and die. You know what my reaction is? A big shrug of the shoulders, a smirk, and "Oh well". I have absolutely no inclination towards empathy or anything like that. In fact, what I actually fight is the instinct in the other direction, namely thinking "Good! One less hateful dumb a** in the population!"

Maybe I'm just getting old and jaded, but I've gotten to the point where I make no apologies for feeling this way. Sometimes, some people get exactly what they deserve.

 

[Jose Fly]

And to add on to the OP...

White Evangelicals Resist Covid-19 Vaccine Most Among Religious Groups - WSJ

More than six months into the country’s Covid-19 vaccination campaign, evangelical Christians are more resistant to getting the vaccine than other major religious groups, according to newly released data.

Some 24% of white evangelicals said in June they wouldn’t be vaccinated, down from 26% in March, according to a study from the Public Religion Research Institute, a nonpartisan group that studies the intersection of religion and public life, and Interfaith Youth Core, a nonprofit focused on interfaith cooperation.

Evangelicals of all races make up about one-quarter of the U.S. population, and health officials say persuading them to get the shot is crucial to slowing the spread of the Delta variant fueling recent increases in Covid-19 cases.

The percentage of white evangelicals who say they have been vaccinated or plan to get the shot as soon as possible was 56% in June, up from 45% in March. That is tied for the lowest figure among groups included in the survey, along with Hispanic protestants, many of whom are evangelical.​

Shrug. Get COVID, get sick, die, or recover.....what do I care?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yeah, I know we have plenty of COVID and vaccine threads, but I saw two things this morning that led me to the same point.....if these people get COVID and die (or get terribly sick and suffer long-term effects), am I supposed to care? Am I supposed to feel bad for them? Am I supposed to feel empathy?

First up, attendees at a St. Louis County Council meeting regarding mask mandates, this happened to the Director of the Dept. of Health...

"After my presentation was completed, I tried to leave the chamber but was confronted by several people who were in the aisle," Khan wrote. "On more than one occasion, I was shoulder-bumped and pushed. As I approached the exit and immediately outside the chambers, I became surrounded by the crowd in close quarters, where members of the crowd yelled at me, calling me a 'fat brown c--t' and a 'brown *******.'”​

After the meeting, it was revealed that one person there has tested positive for COVID.

Then there's notorious hate preacher Greg Locke. You have to watch, as me trying to describe it wouldn't adequately capture the combination of lunacy and anger. https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1421886805427867654?s=20

So let's say some of the people at the STL County meeting and/or at Locke's service get COVID and die. You know what my reaction is? A big shrug of the shoulders, a smirk, and "Oh well". I have absolutely no inclination towards empathy or anything like that. In fact, what I actually fight is the instinct in the other direction, namely thinking "Good! One less hateful dumb a** in the population!"

Maybe I'm just getting old and jaded, but I've gotten to the point where I make no apologies for feeling this way. Sometimes, some people get exactly what they deserve.

It's the same sort of reaction I have when hearing about people dying of cold, exhaustion, oxygen deprivation or some combination when they voluntarily decided to climb a mountain. I mean... didn't they almost ask for it at that point? Is there much difference between that sort of "hobby" and something like skirting your way around the ledges of skyscrapers while breathing through a straw? And then these people go on to write books, and enthrall all sorts of fools with the "harrowing tale" of how they purposefully placed themselves in life-threatening conditions. Why is it that scaling a mountain gets some people's respect, but something like someone falling while trying to jump from roof-top to roof-top in a crowded city would just garner shaken heads and eye rolls? I think somewhere in there is the answer to why some people may find it "noble" to go against expert advice to the detriment of themselves and others.

 

[Jose Fly]

It's the same sort of reaction I have when hearing about people dying of cold, exhaustion, oxygen deprivation or some combination when they voluntarily decided to climb a mountain. I mean... didn't they almost ask for it at that point? Is there much difference between that sort of "hobby" and something like skirting your way around the ledges of skyscrapers while breathing through a straw? And then these people go on to write books, and enthrall all sorts of fools with the "harrowing tale" of how they purposefully placed themselves in life-threatening conditions. Why is it that scaling a mountain gets some people's respect, but something like someone falling while trying to jump from roof-top to roof-top in a crowded city would just garner shaken heads and eye rolls? I think somewhere in there is the answer to why some people may find it "noble" to go against expert advice to the detriment of themselves and others.

At least with mountain climbers you can assume they're probably taking some safety precautions. These COVIDIOTS are doing the equivalent of climbing a mountain in the middle of winter with no coats or oxygen.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Shrugs. I know if my loved one caught COVID and she doesn't want the vaccine I wouldn't throw her to the wolves. Of course strangers you can dislike them because of their decision but I think it goes beyond that. I can't imagine what would happen if the government didn't care insofar they only helped people to get the vaccine and put unvaccinated people on an island.

It makes carrying about people getting sick a contradiction and the spread of the disease really doesn't matter if you only care about those innocent who couldnt lower their risk of catching it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

At least with mountain climbers you can assume they're probably taking some safety precautions. These COVIDIOTS are doing the equivalent of climbing a mountain in the middle of winter with no coats or oxygen.

Mountain climbers are not known to force others to climb the mountain with them.

 

[stvdv]

Am I supposed to feel empathy?

It's not about "supposed to feel empathy"

You either "feel empathy" or you "don't feel empathy"

 

[Nimos]

Yeah, I know we have plenty of COVID and vaccine threads, but I saw two things this morning that led me to the same point.....if these people get COVID and die (or get terribly sick and suffer long-term effects), am I supposed to care? Am I supposed to feel bad for them? Am I supposed to feel empathy?

Its very difficult to understand the thinking of these people, nothing is going to convince them.

In Denmark where im from, we have completely vaccinated around 1.2 million people. And that is just in my small country then add all the other countries as well. How many "test" cases is that globally?
And still that is not convincing enough for these types of people, they are so narrow headed and set on this vaccine being part of some huge conspiracy or whatever reason they have for not wanting to take it, that it is borderline insanity.

There is no other word that describe these people better than the word stupidity to be honest. And hopefully they feel guilty and ashamed should they ever get it and spread it to someone else, that might end up dying from it. I hope they will remember that for the rest of their sorry *** life, that their stupidity, of not doing what they could ended up killing someone else. They should be ashamed!!

So I fully understand your anger towards these people.

 

[Jose Fly]

It's not about "supposed to feel empathy"

You either "feel empathy" or you "don't feel empathy"

Not sure what your point is.

 

[Jose Fly]

Its very difficult to understand the thinking of these people, nothing is going to convince them.

What I've discovered after talking with a few of them is that they're not "thinking" at all.

In Denmark where im from, we have completely vaccinated around 1.2 million people. And that is just in my small country then add all the other countries as well. How many "test" cases is that globally?
And still that is not convincing enough for these types of people, they are so narrow headed and set on this vaccine being part of some huge conspiracy or whatever reason they have for not wanting to take it, that it is borderline insanity.

As you can see from the OP and post #2, here in the US it's gone from vaccine hesitancy to angry opposition to the vaccines.

There is no other word that describe these people better than the word stupidity to be honest.

Yup, that's the word I keep coming back to.

And hopefully they feel guilty and ashamed should they ever get it and spread it to someone else, that might end up dying from it. I hope they will remember that for the rest of their sorry *** life, that their stupidity, of not doing what they could ended up killing someone else. They should be ashamed!!

A common saying among people who watch right-wingers is "they have no shame", so I don't expect many of them to suddenly develop a sense of shame now. Heck, just recently a video surfaced of an anti-vaxxer recovering from severe COIVD in the hospital saying that even after going through all that, he still wouldn't get the vaccine.

So I fully understand your anger towards these people.

Thanks. I'm not usually this callous, but folks like this really leave me no choice.

 

[stvdv]

It's not about "supposed to feel empathy"

You either "feel empathy" or you "don't feel empathy"

Not sure what your point is.

Empathy is not something you can switch on and off

 

[Jose Fly]

Empathy is not something you can switch on and off

Sure it is. I have empathy for lots of folks who got COVID, but not for the people in the OP.

It's like having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while crossing the street, but not having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while sitting down in the middle of a busy highway.

 

[Nimos]

As you can see from the OP and post #2, here in the US it's gone from vaccine hesitancy to angry opposition to the vaccines.

But its insanity, don't these people look at what is going on in other countries? Don't they think that the newspapers and all media stations around the world would be sending news 24/7 about how people are dying from the vaccines in huge numbers if that were the case?

A common saying among people who watch right-wingers is "they have no shame", so I don't expect many of them to suddenly develop a sense of shame now. Heck, just recently a video surfaced of an anti-vaxxer recovering from severe COIVD in the hospital saying that even after going through all that, he still wouldn't get the vaccine.

Its amazing, im completely speechless how such a developed country as the US, have such a huge number of people that behave as they do. That is seriously a country in massive decline in my opinion. I have said it before, but I really feel sorry for the intelligent American that they have to put up with these idiots.

 

[stvdv]

Sure it is. I have empathy for lots of folks who got COVID, but not for the people in the OP.

It's like having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while crossing the street, but not having empathy for someone who gets hit by a car while sitting down in the middle of a busy highway.

There is a difference between empathy and compassion. Your above example is not about empathy

 

[Debater Slayer]

While many anti-vaxxers are indeed selfish and malicious, many are merely the product of specific erroneous ways of thinking that make them more susceptible to buying into fearmongering, misinformation, and conspiracy theories. I know a few people like that--they're far from malicious or selfish but still believe myths about the COVID vaccines because they lack a baseline of critical thinking and respect for scientific and medical organizations.

I don't believe humans have free will or the ability to be rational on demand, so I still have empathy for almost anyone--except perhaps for actively malicious people or ones who don't care about others' safety--who ends up dead or on a ventilator in the ICU because of their irrational decisions. I view it as a sad and preventable outcome of misinformation and flawed thinking rather than something to gloat over or shrug off.

 

[Jose Fly]

But its insanity, don't these people look at what is going on in other countries? Don't they think that the newspapers and all media stations around the world would be sending news 24/7 about how people are dying from the vaccines in huge numbers if that were the case?

From what I've seen (and surveys support), they don't look at much of anything outside of right-wing media (Fox News mostly).

Its amazing, im completely speechless how such a developed country as the US, have such a huge number of people that behave as they do. That is seriously a country in massive decline in my opinion. I have said it before, but I really feel sorry for the intelligent American that they have to put up with these idiots.

It ain't easy, trust me. I live in a very conservative part of the country, and every trip into town carries the risk of a confrontation. Just the other day a coworker told a story of how he and his wife were threatened and almost assaulted just for wearing masks. Thankfully someone else (indirectly) stopped it.

For some reason Trumpists are now getting angry at people for even wearing a mask, thereby showing that their rhetoric about "personal choice" and "freedom" was a load of crap.

 

[Jose Fly]

There is a difference between empathy and compassion. Your above example is not about empathy

Empathy and compassion are synonyms.

 

[Jose Fly]

While many anti-vaxxers are indeed selfish and malicious, many are merely the product of specific erroneous ways of thinking that make them more susceptible to buying into fearmongering, misinformation, and conspiracy theories. I know a few people like that--they're far from malicious or selfish but still believe myths about the COVID vaccines because they lack a baseline of critical thinking and respect for scientific and medical organizations.

Do you think that lack of critical thinking is innate, or something else?

I don't believe humans have free will or the ability to be rational on demand, so I still have empathy for almost anyone--except perhaps for actively malicious people or ones who don't care about others' safety--who ends up dead or on a ventilator in the ICU because of their irrational decisions. I view it as a sad and preventable outcome of misinformation and flawed thinking rather than something to gloat over or shrug off.

Is it accurate to say you see such folks as victims?

 

[stvdv]

Empathy and compassion are synonyms.

They are not synonyms, there is a difference, a huge difference even

 

[Jose Fly]

They are not synonyms, there is a difference, a huge difference even

Well, I'll go with the thesaurus over someone's say so if that's okay.