What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[Onlooker]

And Jesus has nothing to do with Passover. He just happened to be executed at that time.

Yeshua has everything to do with Passover. Just like First fruits of the barley harvest represents 3 days of travel into the wilderness, Yeshua was in grave for 3 days. Just like the counting of the omar to Shavout where the children of Israel received the 10 commandments and Holy spirit visited the upper room.
These festivals are Gods appointed times to meet with man, his creation.

 

[fallingblood]

Throughout the book of John, the "Passover" refers not to the fourteenth (the actual day of the Passover) but rather to the entire 8 days of Passover and Hag haMatzah. Since the first day of Hag haMatzah, the 15th, is a Shabbaton (High Sabbath) this is generally considered the beginning of the Feast. The Jewish historian, Josephus, also called the 15th the first day of Pesach.
Hag haMatzah, the 2nd spring festival commemorates the events of the night of the 15th of Aviv- the meal of the lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs- and the actual departure from Egypt.

You have to show that to be true. If what you are saying is true though, then what did John call the actual day of Passover?

 

[fallingblood]

Yeshua has everything to do with Passover. Just like First fruits of the barley harvest represents 3 days of travel into the wilderness, Yeshua was in grave for 3 days. Just like the counting of the omar to Shavout where the children of Israel received the 10 commandments and Holy spirit visited the upper room.
These festivals are Gods appointed times to meet with man, his creation.

Again, there is no actual connection. Jesus was killed during that time simply because of his actions. He wasn't the only Jew killed during or around that celebration. He wasn't the only Jew crucified during or around the Passover.

More so, the Passover had been in practice much longer than Jesus. The fact that it was being celebrated before Jesus says everything we need to know.

Finally, your connection with 3 doesn't really add up. If we really look at that number, we will see many connections elsewhere as well. The Gospels use it in connection to Jonah.

 

[Onlooker]

Finally, your connection with 3 doesn't really add up. If we really look at that number, we will see many connections elsewhere as well. The Gospels use it in connection to Jonah.

Im not saying anything about the number 3.
The time frame of Israel leaving Egypt, traveling into the desert, going through the Red Sea and resurrecting as a saved nation took 3 days. This is the FirstFruits of the Barley harvest. The date was a hotly contested issue, the Pharisees maintained that the date would be the 16 th of Aviv, while the Sadducees endorsed the Sunday following the weekly Sabbath during Hag haMatzah. The debate is over leviticus 23.
At first it looks like the Sadducees were right, but there are 7 sabbaths known as "Shabbaton" or "High Sabbaths". The 15th of Aviv is such a sabbath.
Yeshua was in the grave for 3 days, and became our Firstfruit as described in I corinthians 15.20-23.
The connection is between the 7 festivals which God gave us as appointed meeting times with him, and the Messiah.
The Messiah may well have visited us, in parallel with the spring/former rain festivals. The Messiah may very well come back in parallel with the fall/later rain festivals.

 

[fallingblood]

Im not saying anything about the number 3.
The time frame of Israel leaving Egypt, traveling into the desert, going through the Red Sea and resurrecting as a saved nation took 3 days. This is the FirstFruits of the Barley harvest. The date was a hotly contested issue, the Pharisees maintained that the date would be the 16 th of Aviv, while the Sadducees endorsed the Sunday following the weekly Sabbath during Hag haMatzah. The debate is over leviticus 23.
At first it looks like the Sadducees were right, but there are 7 sabbaths known as "Shabbaton" or "High Sabbaths". The 15th of Aviv is such a sabbath.
Yeshua was in the grave for 3 days, and became our Firstfruit as described in I corinthians 15.20-23.
The connection is between the 7 festivals which God gave us as appointed meeting times with him, and the Messiah.
The Messiah may well have visited us, in parallel with the spring/former rain festivals. The Messiah may very well come back in parallel with the fall/later rain festivals.

1 Corinthians 15:20-23 is talking about the general resurrection, and how Jesus symbolized the first of the resurrected. This goes with Paul being a Pharisee. Most likely, Paul was saying that Jesus was the beginning of the general resurrection; that with Jesus, the general resurrection began.

Also, Jesus wasn't the Jewish Messiah. He may be a Christian Messiah, but then he doesn't fulfill Jewish prophecy. And thus, it really doesn't matter if he had some parallels with the festivals. Especially since it was his death, on or around Passover, that showed him to be a failed Messiah.

 

[smokydot]

Throughout the book of John, the "Passover" refers not to the fourteenth (the actual day of the Passover) but rather to the entire 8 days of Passover and Hag haMatzah. Since the first day of Hag haMatzah, the 15th, is a Shabbaton (High Sabbath) this is generally considered the beginning of the Feast.

The 15th is the beginning of Hag haMatzah.
Passover is the 14th, the day before, according to Exodus.

The Jewish historian, Josephus, also called the 15th the first day of Pesach.

We're back again to the abbreviated nomenclature of the time, where both Pesach and Hag haMatzah together were called Pesach,
but according to Levitical law (Lev 23:4-8) they were two separate feasts with two different names, Pesach being the 14th only.

Hag haMatzah, the 2nd spring festival commemorates the events of the night of the 15th of Aviv- the meal of the lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs- and the actual departure from Egypt.

Hag haMatzah was the second, while Passover, the 14th, was the first spring festival, when the lamb was slaughtered, roasted and eaten in the dark.

Jesus both participated in Passover on Passover evening, and fulfilled Passover on the following Passover day, as the perfect Passover Lamb, without spot or blemish, sacrificed on Passover, whose blood was poured out to save from eternal death, just as the blood of the first Passover lambs saved from the angel of death those whose door jams were smeared with its blood.

See post #55 for explanation of the abbreviated nomenclature common to the time, and why the texts seem not to agree about which day Jesus died.

 

[smokydot]

The first feast is on the fourteenth day of the first month (Aviv or Nisan), and is called Pesach (Passover)[Ex 12.1-7]. God said that on the tenth day of the month of Aviv, each household should take 1 lamb....without spot/blemish [Ex 12.3-5]. The household was to keep its lamb for 4 days to inspect [Ex 12.3-4] On the 14 th at 3 pm in afternoon (the twain of the evening)[Ex 12.6] the lamb was to be killed at a specific time. "In the evening" in Hebrew would be said: "bain haarbayim" (literally translated "between the evenings"). Within the Temple , the day was divided into quarters. The quarter between 12 pm and 3 pm was the minor evening oblation, while the 3-6pm was the major evening oblation. Therefore "between the evenings", on the 14.

Sound very confident in your objection to the 14th, why is that?

Because he's confident of his misinformation.

You've got a job ahead of you, if you stay with it.

 

[waitasec]

If I were the Judge of the Court responsible for justice in the community, and my child was set before me for sentencing for some horrendous crime of which he had been convicted, as Judge I would be required to sentence my child according to the Law, because as Judge I must execute justice in the community.

There are bigger issues in life than my love for my child.

like what? i'm guessing you don't have any kids.

besides you still didn't answer the question...

as a parent, could you see yourself expecting and hoping your child will turn out exactly like you. and if they don't turn out that way, no matter how hard they try to please you, you will turn your back on them?

consider romans 8:15
The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship And by him we cry, “Abba Father"

isn't that the whole idea of of being free of sin? having god be your northern star, the direction to go towards...but still you're not good enough.

that is what i find so vile in this religion. you are never good enough.
surely god would know how we are wired in the sense that we depend on people to believe in us, we need to believe in ourselves. where does the bible say he believes in us (as any loving parent would with their own children) and knows we are capable of doing the right thing....NO WHERE.

 

[dogsgod]

The Sanhedrin and the High Priest are different. There is no contradiction here.

Believe what you will and continue to contradict yourself but the Sanhedrin was a Jewish judicial body that consisted of high priests for the most part along with religious experts. The Jerusalem Sanhedrin that Jesus was brought before was presided over by high priest Joseph Caiaphas, according to the gospels.

 

[fallingblood]

Believe what you will and continue to contradict yourself but the Sanhedrin was a Jewish judicial body that consisted of high priests for the most part along with religious experts. The Jerusalem Sanhedrin that Jesus was brought before was presided over by high priest Joseph Caiaphas, according to the gospels.

And again, we know little about the Sanhedrin during the first century. In fact, we have little writing about Judaism at all in the first century. And again, the High Priest, by many, was considered to be corrupt. There is no contradiction there.

 

[truseeker]

Christ died on Wednesday before the Passover sabbath on Thursday not the weekly sabbath on Saturday. In this way He was in the tomb for the full 3 days and 3 nights He said He would be. Thursday night Friday night and Saturday night Thursday day Friday day and Saturday day. In other words there were two sabbaths that week, the Passover sabbath on Thursday and the regular weekly sabbath on Saturday.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Wow....and another interpertation of that "holy book" by truthseeker....where will it end?......and I was told the "mythacist" have far out ideas.....Why aren't all you theist believers in agreement here?

 

[dogsgod]

Wow....and another interpertation of that "holy book" by truthseeker....where will it end?......and I was told the "mythacist" have far out ideas.....Why aren't all you theist believers in agreement here?

Mythicists are crazy, they don't even believe that the story about the Son of God is based on actual historical events, they think it was written for theological purposes, how crazy is that? Believers might not agree on anything, but at least they know it's all for real.

 

[Beta]

The Day of Preparation of the Passover is the day before Passover. That is the day John is talking about. The synoptics state that Jesus was crucified on Passover day. That is the problem.
Bart D Ehrman and John P. Meier are both great scholars who also acknowledge the difference (those are just the two scholars that come to mind, but the general consensus is that there is a problem).

First let me say that I never listen to scholars - I go to the Word of God for information.
There is not a specific Day called Passover. SOME Jews referred (still do) to the FIRST Day of Unleavened Bread as Passover (or even the whole 7/8 days) and some did/do not --- that is where the confusion comes in. So if you want to call the day after the preparation Passover (but are referred to as the days of unleavened bread)...No..Jesus did not die on that day but on the day before called the 'preparation day'. Still no problem or confusion and still the same day on which he died. :yes:

 

[Beta]

Since you brought it up, I will expand on the FEASTS (festivals) which were types (pictures) of Christ, as related to his Passover sacrifice.
PASSOVER - 14th--------------Christ was sacrificed---
UNLEAVENED BREAD - 15th-------------commemorating Exodus
FIRST FRUITS - 16th-----------Christ rose-----------------------------------

You show here 3 days or parts thereof.
How do they compere with Jesus own prophecy of 3 days AND 3 nights ??? Mat.12v39,40.
MAN may count time anyway he wants but the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus was/is according to scripture as we read in 1Cor.15v3,4. and according to Joh.11v9,10 we see that there are 12 hours in the day and 12 hours in the night. What Jesus' burial and resurrection entails is a SCRIPTURAL period of 72 hours.
Traditional Christians need to learn to count - according to scripture !!! :yes::yes::yes:

 

[smokydot]

You show here 3 days or parts thereof.
How do they compere with Jesus own prophecy of 3 days AND 3 nights ??? Mat.12v39,40.
MAN may count time anyway he wants but the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus was/is according to scripture as we read in 1Cor.15v3,4. and according to Joh.11v9,10 we see that there are 12 hours in the day and 12 hours in the night. What Jesus' burial and resurrection entails is a SCRIPTURAL period of 72 hours.
Traditional Christians need to learn to count - according to scripture !!! :yes::yes::yes:

I hear ya', but you are assuming an ancient culture. . .from the Middle East. . .which uses an ancient language with its own idioms. . .is the same
as the 21st century culture. . .from the West. . .using modern English with different idioms.
No ancient history is really understood by assuming little difference with modern culture.

In the ancient Jewish reckoning of time, any part of a day was called a day.

In Lk 24:46, Jesus said, "This is what is written: the Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day."

Part of Friday and part of Sunday would be two days, when added to Saturday would be three days, and also the third day.

But what settles the issue is the ancient testimony of the Church from its beginning, which reports Jesus died on Passover and rose on Firstfruits (post #151).
They were't 2,000 years removed from the events.

 

[smokydot]

First let me say that I never listen to scholars - I go to the Word of God for information.

That is the only guaranteed true source for what it says.

There is not a specific Day called Passover.

But Passover, and its observance by that name, are found throughout the Word of God in the OT:

Lev 23:5; Ex 12:11,21,27,43; Nu 9:2,4, 28:16; Dt 16:1; Jos 5:10; 2 Kg 23:21; 2 Chr 30:1; Ez 6:19.

SOME, Jews referred (still do) to the FIRST Day of Unleavened Bread as Passover (or even the whole 7/8 days) and some did/do not --- that is where the confusion comes in. So if you want to call the day after the preparation Passover (but are referred to as the days of unleavened bread)

When fallingblood refers to the Day of Preparation for the Passover, he means Nisan 13, the day before Passover.
He has not yet reckoned with the abbreviated nomenclature of those feasts during the time of Jesus, and does not understand the bearing of that nomenclature
on the dates of the feasts in the NT.

There was no preparation for the Passover.
The lamb was slaughtered and roasted in the evening and then eaten at night, on Nisan 14, which had begun at sundown, and continued until the next sundown, which then began Nisan 15, the Feast of Unleavened Bread (see scriptures above).

The Day of Preparation was for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which that year began on a Saturday, making it a special Saturday sabbath.
The Day of Preparation for that special Sabbath was the day before Nisan 15, which was Passover, Nisan 14.
Jesus died on the Day of Preparation, Nisan 14, for the special Saturday Sabbath which was the beginning the Feast of Unleavened Bread on Nisan 15.

...No..Jesus did not die on that day but on the day before called the 'preparation day'. Still no problem or confusion and still the same day on which he died. :yes:

No confusion, as long as you understand that it was the Day of Preparation, Nisan 14, for the Feast of Unleavened Bread, Nisan 15-21.

 

[smokydot]

You have to show that to be true. If what you are saying is true though, then what did John call the actual day of Passover?

Passover in the NT accounts can mean three different periods:

1) Passover itself - Nisan 14, which when referring to the one day, John would have called it.
2) Feast of Unleavened Bread - Nisan 15-21, or
3) both feasts together - Nisan 14-21.

Unleavened Bread in the NT accounts can mean two different periods:

1) Unleavened Bread - Nisan 15-21
2) Passover and Unleavened Bread together - Nisan 14-21

That's the reckoning you haven't done yet. . .and how which names are used for which period in the NT. . .which varies in the accounts.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

First let me say that I never listen to scholars - I go to the Word of God for information.

You say that like it's a badge of honor, but it's counter-intuitive.

Do you think that you would be better able to "go to the Word of God for information" if you could read the Bible in its original languages and spend all of your time studying Christian history, theology, the history and philosophy of Greece and Rome, Jewish history, and the philosophy of interpretation?

If you don't have the time or interest to commit yourself to the lifelong study that such achievement requires, why on earth would you ignore people who have?

 

[smokydot]

Wow....and another interpertation of that "holy book" by truthseeker....where will it end?......and I was told the "mythacist" have far out ideas.....Why aren't all you theist believers in agreement here?

A lot of the disagreement is caused by lack of knowledge.

Then the confusion caused by the abbreviated nomenclature of the time for the two feasts is no small contributor to it.

It requires sorting out, based on the OT, with which not many are familiar.