What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[fallingblood]

now your dumbfounded, hey?

Okay, I will explain this thread. The purpose is to show that there is a flaw in the bible. That the Gospels do not agree on what day Jesus was crucified. As in, whether it was Passover, or the day before Passover.

 

[sniper762]

isn't that exactly what my post emplies? add em up

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The way the Jews reckoned time back then was any part of a day was counted as a day.

So, part of Friday and part of Sunday, would be two days, which when added to Saturday would be three days.

In other texts, it is reported that Jesus rose "on the third day."

You've said this before and I understand what you're talking about. I'm not convinced unless I hear from someone who's Jewish considering there is this ongoing debate over the Passover between yourself and Poisonshady313. He, being Jewish, seems to disagree with you over the concept as to when their day starts and ends.

 

[smokydot]

You've said this before and I understand what you're talking about. I'm not convinced unless I hear from someone who's Jewish considering there is this ongoing debate over the Passover between yourself and Poisonshady313. He, being Jewish, seems to disagree with you over the concept as to when their day starts and ends.

Yes, and that is discussed in posts #102 and #111.

 

[smokydot]

it's important either way

Didn't you say in post #74 that in one way it was not important?

because we value dignity integrity and truth...

"who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?"
obi wan

 

[waitasec]

Is it important for one to determine if their rejection of theology is based on fallacy?

i was assuming you were speaking of a person of faith, that is why i said...

not at all, because according to your faith, your god knows the heart and the mind...seek and you shall find, am i right?

So, if God knows the heart, why would it be important for one to determnene if their theology is based on fallacy, but not important for another to determine if their rejection of theology is based on fallacy?

i never said that.

it's important either way
because we value dignity integrity and truth...

Didn't you say in post #74 that in one way it was not important?

according to your faith it is not important
you see, we are all born with an innate sense within ourselves to value dignity, integrity and truth. that is why it matters either way however if we, knowingly, keep moving the goal posts because of our faith we will never be fully satisfied because of that innate quality. that is why it matters ultimately for the faithful.

 

[smokydot]

according to your faith it is not important
you see, we are all born with an innate sense within ourselves to value dignity, integrity and truth. that is why it matters either way however if we, knowingly, keep moving the goal posts because of our faith we will never be fully satisfied because of that innate quality. that is why it matters ultimately for the faithful.

Okay, now I'm on track.

Because I am a person of faith, I believe the testimony of the NT, where I read that Jesus said, "He who does not believe in me is condemned."

So, the Word of God written tells me my heart is not the determining factor, my faith is. The changed disposition of my heart is a by-product of the work of my faith.

 

[waitasec]

Okay, now I'm on track.

Because I am a person of faith, I believe the testimony of the NT, where I read that Jesus said, "He who does not believe in me is condemned."

So, the Word of God written tells me my heart is not the determining factor, my faith is. The changed disposition of my heart is a by-product of the work of my faith.

sorry, that is not a very good argument for a loving understanding benevolent god, is it?

i know the word of god says that only evil comes from the heart of man and that nothing good can come from man, except, if god lives through them vicariously.

i think i already asked you this in another post.
as a parent, could you see yourself expecting and hoping your child will turn out exactly like you. and if they don't turn out that way, no matter how hard they try to please you, you will turn your back on them? this is the god that is portrayed in the bible.
if there is a god like that..."we're doomed" all of us BECAUSE
let him without sin cast the first stone,
well if that were really the case then none of us can really condemn someone like charles manson or hitler meaning we are all just as evil as they are/were

and i know you will say, but god offers us salvation through the blood of the lamb... a scapegoat, which is a ritual that goes back to 24th century BC.

in psychopathology, scapegoating is an especially commonly used defense mechanism in people with a narcissistic personality disorder which is linked to self-centeredness. and, wouldn't this idea of an all knowing all powerful god is one that also wants to have a personal relationship (knowing how many hairs you have on your head, knowing your every thought) is narcissistic by it's very nature?

 

[smokydot]

sorry, that is not a very good argument for a loving understanding benevolent god, is it?
i know the word of god says that only evil comes from the heart of man and that nothing good can come from man, except, if god lives through them vicariously.
i think i already asked you this in another post.
as a parent, could you see yourself expecting and hoping your child will turn out exactly like you. and if they don't turn out that way, no matter how hard they try to please you, you will turn your back on them? this is the god that is portrayed in the bible.
if there is a god like that..."we're doomed" all of us BECAUSE
let him without sin cast the first stone,
well if that were really the case then none of us can really condemn someone like charles manson or hitler meaning we are all just as evil as they are/were
and i know you will say, but god offers us salvation through the blood of the lamb... a scapegoat, which is a ritual that goes back to 24th century BC.
in psychopathology, scapegoating is an especially commonly used defense mechanism in people with a narcissistic personality disorder which is linked to self-centeredness. and, wouldn't this idea of an all knowing all powerful god is one that also wants to have a personal relationship (knowing how many hairs you have on your head, knowing your every thought) is narcissistic by it's very nature?

Well, you're addressing a person of faith here.

In deciding who or what to believe, the Bible always trumps.

 

[smokydot]

Okay, I will explain this thread. The purpose is to show that there is a flaw in the bible. That the Gospels do not agree on what day Jesus was crucified. As in, whether it was Passover, or the day before Passover.

And post #55 shows the flaw to be yours because you have not reckoned with the use of the same name for different feasts.

Pegg (posts #20 and #102) and Onlooker (post #86, #112) have it exactly right.

 

[waitasec]

Well, you're addressing a person of faith here.

In deciding who or what to believe, the Bible always trumps.

but why wouldn't you answer the question?
could you see yourself being that way towards your child?
this applies because it goes into the very heart of what we value in our core being; integrity, dignity and truth.

 

[Beta]

Okay, I will explain this thread. The purpose is to show that there is a flaw in the bible. That the Gospels do not agree on what day Jesus was crucified. As in, whether it was Passover, or the day before Passover.

There is absolutely no disagreement as to which day Jesus died -
it was on the preparation of the Passover Joh.19v14, 31; with the next day (starting at sunset) being a 'high day' or Sabbath (the first day of unleavened bread.) No other days are mentioned so where is the confusion ???

 

[fallingblood]

There is absolutely no disagreement as to which day Jesus died -
it was on the preparation of the Passover Joh.19v14, 31; with the next day (starting at sunset) being a 'high day' or Sabbath (the first day of unleavened bread.) No other days are mentioned so where is the confusion ???

The Day of Preparation of the Passover is the day before Passover. That is the day John is talking about. The synoptics state that Jesus was crucified on Passover day. That is the problem.

Bart D Ehrman and John P. Meier are both great scholars who also acknowledge the difference (those are just the two scholars that come to mind, but the general consensus is that there is a problem).

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If I were the Judge of the Court, responsible for execution of justice in the community, and my child was presented before me for sentencing of a horrendous crime of which he was found guilty, justice would require that I sentence my child according to the Law, and as Judge I must execute justice.

There are bigger issues than my personal feelings.

What if you knew your son was innocent despite the guilty verdict - and the penalty required by law was a death without the possibility of appeal?

 

[smokydot]

but why wouldn't you answer the question?
could you see yourself being that way towards your child?
this applies because it goes into the very heart of what we value in our core being; integrity, dignity and truth.

If I were the Judge of the Court responsible for justice in the community, and my child was set before me for sentencing for some horrendous crime of which he had been convicted, as Judge I would be required to sentence my child according to the Law, because as Judge I must execute justice in the community.

There are bigger issues in life than my love for my child.

 

[smokydot]

What if you knew your son was innocent despite the guilty verdict - and the penalty required by law was a death without the possibility of appeal?

What if I saw him do the crime?

 

[Onlooker]

That really isn't correct. The lamb was sacrificed the day before Passover, on the Day of Preparation for the Passover. And Jesus has nothing to do with Passover. He just happened to be executed at that time.

The first feast is on the fourteenth day of the first month (Aviv or Nisan), and is called Pesach (Passover)[Ex 12.1-7]. God said that on the tenth day of the month of Aviv, each household should take 1 lamb....without spot/blemish [Ex 12.3-5]. The household was to keep its lamb for 4 days to inspect [Ex 12.3-4] On the 14 th at 3 pm in afternoon (the twain of the evening)[Ex 12.6] the lamb was to be killed at a specific time. "In the evening" in Hebrew would be said: "bain haarbayim" (literally translated "between the evenings"). Within the Temple , the day was divided into quarters. The quarter between 12 pm and 3 pm was the minor evening oblation, while the 3-6pm was the major evening oblation. Therefore "between the evenings", on the 14.

Sound very confident in your objection to the 14th, why is that?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What if I saw him do the crime?

What if the moon is made of cheese?

 

[fallingblood]

The first feast is on the fourteenth day of the first month (Aviv or Nisan), and is called Pesach (Passover)[Ex 12.1-7]. God said that on the tenth day of the month of Aviv, each household should take 1 lamb....without spot/blemish [Ex 12.3-5]. The household was to keep its lamb for 4 days to inspect [Ex 12.3-4] On the 14 th at 3 pm in afternoon (the twain of the evening)[Ex 12.6] the lamb was to be killed at a specific time. "In the evening" in Hebrew would be said: "bain haarbayim" (literally translated "between the evenings"). Within the Temple , the day was divided into quarters. The quarter between 12 pm and 3 pm was the minor evening oblation, while the 3-6pm was the major evening oblation. Therefore "between the evenings", on the 14.

Sound very confident in your objection to the 14th, why is that?

Read my first post.

 

[Onlooker]

Throughout the book of John, the "Passover" refers not to the fourteenth (the actual day of the Passover) but rather to the entire 8 days of Passover and Hag haMatzah. Since the first day of Hag haMatzah, the 15th, is a Shabbaton (High Sabbath) this is generally considered the beginning of the Feast. The Jewish historian, Josephus, also called the 15th the first day of Pesach.
Hag haMatzah, the 2nd spring festival commemorates the events of the night of the 15th of Aviv- the meal of the lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs- and the actual departure from Egypt.