What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

[Estro Felino]

Of course this question is addressed both to theists and to atheists. Both to those who believe in evolution and those who believe it's untrue.
Explain why you, through your intelligence, reason and mind developped the awareness and the conviction that Evolution is the historical truth.

If you are a theist, please explain the theological implications, as well.

I will underline that we are not talking about Intelligence Design, here: we are talking about Darwinian evolution based upon the Darwinian principles like natural selection, etc..etc...
Thank you for participating-

 

[Tomef]

Of course this question is addressed both to theists and to atheists. Both to those who believe in evolution and those who believe it's untrue.
Explain why you, through your intelligence, reason and mind developped the awareness and the conviction that Evolution is the historical truth.

If you are a theist, please explain the theological implications, as well.

I will underline that we are not talking about Intelligence Design, here: we are talking about Darwinian evolution based upon the Darwinian principles like genetic drift, natural selection, etc..etc...
Thank you for participating-

‘The truth’ is a phrase that gets flung about a lot and appended to all kinds of things. Evolutionary theory is a way of quantifying how life on earth has developed, so it’s true as far as it’s applicable to that, but it’s not ‘the truth’, it’s just part of ongoing investigations into how we and everything around us functions.

 

[Estro Felino]

‘The truth’ is a phrase that gets flung about a lot and appended to all kinds of things. Evolutionary theory is a way of quantifying how life on earth has developed, so it’s true as far as it’s applicable to that, but it’s not ‘the truth’, it’s just part of ongoing investigations into how we and everything around us functions.

Perfect. But I am interested in your stance. Do you consider this theory probable, highly probable or unlikely? And why.

 

[wellwisher]

Of course this question is addressed both to theists and to atheists. Both to those who believe in evolution and those who believe it's untrue.
Explain why you, through your intelligence, reason and mind developped the awareness and the conviction that Evolution is the historical truth.

If you are a theist, please explain the theological implications, as well.

I will underline that we are not talking about Intelligence Design, here: we are talking about Darwinian evolution based upon the Darwinian principles like genetic drift, natural selection, etc..etc...
Thank you for participating-

Darwin's theory was based on natural selection. The genetic drift aspect is not from Darwin. This is where the theory has conceptual inconsistencies. Natural selection is more logical, while genetic drift is too dice and cards. The theory becomes too empirical and not as logical as the natural selection aspect; leans to one side.

With natural selection, the environment, such as the desert, selects life based on what works in that environment, such as being able to survive with less water. One can look at an environment, define its selective pressures on life, and then successfully predict the types of life, that might be suitable; from a lineup. There is cause and affect. This has applied science value.

The genetic addendum adds dice and cards and is where logic breaks down. It gets too dependent on the whims of the gods and black boxes to make things happen. It becomes like talking to someone who buys lottery tickets, daily. They can show you someone won yesterday and they have conviction someone will win tomorrow, but who shall win tomorrow is very open, and it may be them. They cannot see the gambling problem. They do not wish to hear logic since that would require they open the black box, which is taboo.

The problem are the bio-sciences are too organic centric, and do not take into account how water is a Darwinian environment, for evolution, at the chemical or nano-level. They instead black box water, and detach basic logic in favor of the whims of the gods. I double dip Darwin; natural selection at the macro and micro scale, while the status quo is part Darwin logic; macro, and part black box casino betting. My interest in evolution is of someone who is trying to fix flawed foundation premises, so it can become more acceptable, and not a religious whims of gods war.

Intelligent design, to me, is a molecule like water that can fold microscopic protein into exact shapes needed to become useful catalysts for chemical reactions. Water eliminates random, down to the nanoscale, so the whims of the gods do not apply; load the dice.

 

[Estro Felino]

Darwin's theory was based on natural selection. The genetic drift aspect is not from Darwin. This is where the theory has conceptual inconsistencies. Natural selection is more logical, while genetic drift is too dice and cards. The theory becomes too empirical and not as logical as the natural selection aspect; leans to one side.

With natural selection, the environment, such as the desert, selects life based on what works in that environment, such as being able to survive with less water. One can look at an environment, define its selective pressures on life, and then successfully predict the types of life, that might be suitable; from a lineup. There is cause and affect. This has applied science value.

The genetic addendum adds dice and cards and is where logic breaks down. It gets too dependent on the whims of the gods and black boxes to make things happen. It becomes like talking to someone who buys lottery tickets, daily. They can show you someone won yesterday and they have conviction someone will win tomorrow, but who shall win tomorrow is very open, and it may be them. They cannot see the gambling problem. They do not wish to hear logic since that would require they open the black box, which is taboo.

The problem are the bio-sciences are too organic centric, and do not take into account how water is a Darwinian environment, for evolution, at the chemical or nano-level. They instead black box water, and detach basic logic in favor of the whims of the gods. I double dip Darwin; natural selection at the macro and micro scale, while the status quo is part Darwin logic; macro, and part black box casino betting. My interest in evolution is of someone who is trying to fix flawed foundation premises, so it can become more acceptable, and not a religious whims of gods war.

Intelligent design, to me, is a molecule like water that can fold microscopic protein into exact shapes needed to become useful catalysts for chemical reactions. Water eliminates random, down to the nanoscale, so the whims of the gods do not apply; load the dice.

Honestly, I just expect you to tell me what makes you rely on this theory and why.
That's all.
Of course you will have to point out whether you are a theist or an atheist.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Of course this question is addressed both to theists and to atheists.

So I'm excluded from yet another thread.

 

[Estro Felino]

So I'm excluded from yet another thread.

To everyone...I meant. Come on.

 

[SalixIncendium]

To everyone...I meant. Come on.

Thank you for welcoming me into your thread.

What convinces me that evolution is true is biological evidence, both through fossil records and observation of present day evolutionary changes, logic, and reasoning.

 

[ChristineM]

Multiple lines of independent investigation each providing evidence that leads to the same conclusion

 

[wellwisher]

The black box approach bets on some type of power, for lack of a better word, that randomizes. Creationism assumes a God principle that brings order to the power of random. These are two undefined forces in terms the solid science needed to characterize these in a logical fashion. Both use faith in an unknowable. Evolution is a religious war based on faith; will of God versus whims of the gods.

I tend to side with the idea of an organizing principle that can bring order, which is why I come across as against evolution and more for intelligent design. However, I am also an applied scientist and the organizing principle I had in mind, were based on variables in cells and life that are common, everywhere.

I first approach this from the POV of hydrogen bonding since water, DNA, RNA, protein, and may other things in life use hydrogen bonding. This was too difficult to model in terms of entire cells. Water became a better variable since water and organics are natural antagonists, that can create a potential in each other, with water a stable bookend and the organics the variable bookend. Water ordering life, rubs the whims of the gods the wrong way. One is not allowed to count cards in science casinos.

 

[LuisDantas]

In my case, it is really very simple: there is no doubt nor controversy of any significance.

Pretty much everything that has relevance supports evolution or at least fails to counter-evidence it.

 

[Rival]

I used to be a creationist, but several things stuck out to me,

1. Resistance to anti-biotics and other medicine based evidence.
2. Evolutionary psychology accounts for many things.
3. No animal seems to be made 'perfect'.
4. Some humans born with tails etc. coccyx bones existing.
5. No reason not to support it given the evidence.

I am still sceptical of the mechanism/s many believe drives evolution and think we have a lot more to learn.

 

[Colt]

Of course this question is addressed both to theists and to atheists. Both to those who believe in evolution and those who believe it's untrue.
Explain why you, through your intelligence, reason and mind developped the awareness and the conviction that Evolution is the historical truth.

If you are a theist, please explain the theological implications, as well.

I will underline that we are not talking about Intelligence Design, here: we are talking about Darwinian evolution based upon the Darwinian principles like natural selection, etc..etc...
Thank you for participating-

Common sense, I guess? It's always been obvious to me that the earth is quite old and life in various forms from the earliest most primitive to life as we know it today. But I have also known that God created the life that evolved. When I found the Urantia Book revelation as a teenager I discovered that celestial beings came to our world when it reached the point of being able to sustain life and "created the primitive life forms that evolved.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Of course this question is addressed both to theists and to atheists. Both to those who believe in evolution and those who believe it's untrue.
Explain why you, through your intelligence, reason and mind developped the awareness and the conviction that Evolution is the historical truth.

If you are a theist, please explain the theological implications, as well.

I will underline that we are not talking about Intelligence Design, here: we are talking about Darwinian evolution based upon the Darwinian principles like natural selection, etc..etc...
Thank you for participating-

Multiple lines of mountains of independently verifiable evidence, all converging on the same answer.

 

[Tomef]

Perfect. But I am interested in your stance. Do you consider this theory probable, highly probable or unlikely? And why.

As far as I understand it, I think it’s the best available explanation for how life on earth has developed. Generally, from a mishmash of different things I’ve read or studied that have some connection with evolution. I don’t have an advanced understanding of the theory but things like common traits within species over time, differences found in fossils over time, especially for me all the evidence there is of earlier human like hominids, and various other more detailed things I’ve read at one time or another that I can’t recall right now. More specifically, the mechanisms are there, I farmed for a while so I’ve seen first hand how artificial selection works, I can’t think of any reason why natural selection, given all of the different environmental factors involved, shouldn’t also have worked and be working right now.

 

[Estro Felino]

Despite receiving a very rigid Catholic education, at school I was taught that only evolution is the most reliable answer, that is the most reliable theory. I had never heard of Intelligent Design before frequenting this forum, and I don't think it relies on scientific evidence.

But as a theist, I believe in what I observe. And I observe that humans are still at a very low degree of awareness. Not that dissimilar from the animal stage since greed, selfishness and instinctual drives prevail over reason, common sense, altruism, etc...

For example: we can see here some monkeys rushing to take as many bananas as they can, driven by infinite greed and ignoring the little ones' needs.

Is human nature any different? No. There is unbridled capitalism which turn people into angry creatures thirsty for money, obsessed with the profit maximization, completely unaware that they are mortals and that after death they will have to quit all that money they have been stockpiling.
In order to maximize the profits, they are disposed to step on people's feelings, needs and on people's lives, sometimes.

So humans' behavior made me conclude, staunchly, that evolution is the absolute Truth. The scientific and historical truth.
Of course some of us understand that there is the need to evolve from that ape-like stage.

Christ's coming took place because the fullness of times depended on how evolved some people were.
What degree of spiritual awareness had reached.

As Nietzsche used to say, man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Overman. A rope over the abyss.
As mortals, as people who have a beginning and an end, we should understand that our planet is a worldly dimension that is not eternal, and that we can preserve it, as we can preserve mankind, by producing common good. And really evolving into better beings.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Common sense, I guess? It's always been obvious to me that the earth is quite old and life in various forms from the earliest most primitive to life as we know it today. But I have also known that God created the life that evolved. When I found the Urantia Book revelation as a teenager I discovered that celestial beings came to our world when it reached the point of being able to sustain life and "created the primitive life forms that evolved.

You think God created the life that evolved? If God could create something like that why wouldn’t he create the highest forms of life right off the bat?

 

[Aupmanyav]

chimp behavior - Google Search

 

[sun rise]

My answer is one simple word: science. To expand a bit, the standard tools of science applied to the question of change of forms over time proved that Darwin was basically correct. The proof has become even more powerful with genetics as well as finding intermediate forms in the fossil record.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Darwin's theory was based on natural selection. The genetic drift aspect is not from Darwin. This is where the theory has conceptual inconsistencies. Natural selection is more logical, while genetic drift is too dice and cards. The theory becomes too empirical and not as logical as the natural selection aspect; leans to one side.

With natural selection, the environment, such as the desert, selects life based on what works in that environment, such as being able to survive with less water. One can look at an environment, define its selective pressures on life, and then successfully predict the types of life, that might be suitable; from a lineup. There is cause and affect. This has applied science value.

The genetic addendum adds dice and cards and is where logic breaks down. It gets too dependent on the whims of the gods and black boxes to make things happen. It becomes like talking to someone who buys lottery tickets, daily. They can show you someone won yesterday and they have conviction someone will win tomorrow, but who shall win tomorrow is very open, and it may be them. They cannot see the gambling problem. They do not wish to hear logic since that would require they open the black box, which is taboo.

The problem are the bio-sciences are too organic centric, and do not take into account how water is a Darwinian environment, for evolution, at the chemical or nano-level. They instead black box water, and detach basic logic in favor of the whims of the gods. I double dip Darwin; natural selection at the macro and micro scale, while the status quo is part Darwin logic; macro, and part black box casino betting. My interest in evolution is of someone who is trying to fix flawed foundation premises, so it can become more acceptable, and not a religious whims of gods war.

Intelligent design, to me, is a molecule like water that can fold microscopic protein into exact shapes needed to become useful catalysts for chemical reactions. Water eliminates random, down to the nanoscale, so the whims of the gods do not apply; load the dice.

I wonder how many times you will be told that, when there is a selection mechanism (and there is, naturally), dice and cards are not apt analogies, before you finally get it. Throwing dice and shuffling cards randomizes the results. Selecting for reproducibility is precisely the opposite.