Was the war in Iraq Justified?

[kai]

Its called the fog of war. Once it starts you never know whats going to happen.

you know what WY? i never heard of the fog of planning.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

as you say we are in agreement.

i will point out that its not a soldiers job to plan what the heck your going to do with Iraq when the jackboot is lifted off the neck of seething mass of resentment. Politicians! what can you do with them?

Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to send the politicians off to fight in the war.

You know - give them a chance to earn some credibility for their claims of patriotism.

 

[kai]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to send the politicians off to fight in the war.

You know - give them a chance to earn some credibility for their claims of patriotism.

Maybe they should all do a term in the military 3 or four years before they can hold office. I can think of one or two Regimental sergeant Majors that would make Bush and Blair cry for their mummies.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Well, in this case, it was the fog of stupidity and arrogance, prior to war.

The fog of war is usually used to describe the way information gets muddled and miscommunicated once the war has begun.

Well there was a lot of hubris in the White. If you remember the American people were against the War at the beginning. It was only after the distortion of the truth and beating of the War drums that the American Public got on board. I am proud to say I never did.

It was OUR hubris that created this fog that is true. How can you have good info on the battle field Who would have guessed that it would have been so poorly plained. Still it was an unjust War and we should have never went to Iraq. My point is once a War starts you have know idea whats going to happen poor plaining only muddles the waters more.

Fog of War

The term is ascribed to the Prussian military analyst Carl von Clausewitz, who wrote:
"The great uncertainty of all data in war is a peculiar difficulty, because all action must, to a certain extent, be planned in a mere twilight, which in addition not infrequently—like the effect of a fog or moonshine—gives to things exaggerated dimensions and unnatural appearance."

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

you know what WY? i never heard of the fog of planning.

Why plan when you think that your so powerful you can do what ever you want. I believe that Bush believe that we would Invade Iraq and the Iraqis would just love to be occupied by America. The White house said we will be greeted like we were in France after WWII. And every one seemed to buy this crap. Not only Bush but congress and the American people.

 

[kai]

Why plan when you think that your so powerful you can do what ever you want.

yep! you have a point

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Why plan when you think that your so powerful you can do what ever you want.

... and there we have it. Unfortunately, I have to wait for 24 hours for the frubal fairies to replenish my ammo supplies.

 

[AxisMundi]

Its called the fog of war. Once it starts you never know whats going to happen.

Well, there is the fog of war, certainly.

Then there is a compelte and utter ineptitude and lack of planning for the occupation stage.

I thought the past administration the epitomie of arrogant for expecting the Iraqi people to fall gratefully to their knees, get up and carry on like some suburb cul-de-sac nieghborhood.

The violent history between the different groups was there and Bushco was warned by experts as well.

 

[kai]

Well, there is the fog of war, certainly.

Then there is a compelte and utter ineptitude and lack of planning for the occupation stage.

I thought the past administration the epitomie of arrogant for expecting the Iraqi people to fall gratefully to their knees, get up and carry on like some suburb cul-de-sac nieghborhood.

The violent history between the different groups was there and Bushco was warned by experts as well.[/

quote]



Thats the puzzle for me, whats the reasoning for disbanding the army and police and then when the Iraqi state totally collapses and all hell breaks loose wonder why all the condemnation? what do you think was the reason for that?

 

[AxisMundi]

Thats the puzzle for me, whats the reasoning for disbanding the army and police and then when the Iraqi state totally collapses and all hell breaks loose wonder why all the condemnation? what do you think was the reason for that?

I've looked and looked, but I cannot find any reasoning, neither in the invasion itself, nor the manner in which the aftermath was coordinated.

 

[Aquitaine]

No one can find reasoning into why we waged the war or how we treated the country afterwards, because (as is understandable) we all think of it from the perspective of the Coalition going into Iraqi to oust a Dictator and make the country a safer, more prosperous and generally better place.

We didn't invade Iraq for those reasons.

 

[kai]

I am well aware and understand the reasoning behind the invasion and the ousting of Saddam, and even if you follow the reasoning of "they are only doing it to steal the oil" you would think they would have some kind of plan in place , what i am puzzled over is the lack of planning for a post war Iraq without an army or police force.

 

[dust1n]

I am well aware and understand the reasoning behind the invasion and the ousting of Saddam, what i am puzzled over is the lack of planning for a post war Iraq without an army or police force.

I don't think anyone really asked and no news discussed exactly how we were going to do anything in the future sense. That information is classified for 20 years because its national security issues.

 

[kai]

I don't think anyone really asked and no news discussed exactly how we were going to do anything in the future sense. That information is classified for 20 years because its national security issues.

i think its pretty common knowledge that post war planning was woefully inadequate. I am just wondering why?
My view is the invasion and ousting of the regime went almost like clockwork a military success.--------- Then it all went down hill, most of the criticism of the "Iraq war" and statistics used in support are from the post war period.

It was a spectacular blunder in my view.

 

[dust1n]

Maybe this is why we are having so much trouble...

 

[kai]

yep that clears up the Iraq war questions very nicely

 

[Sunstone]

i think its pretty common knowledge that post war planning was woefully inadequate. I am just wondering why?
My view is the invasion and ousting of the regime went almost like clockwork a military success.--------- Then it all went down hill, most of the criticism of the "Iraq war" and statistics used in support are from the post war period.

It was a spectacular blunder in my view.

The war was conducted by professional military officers. The postwar was conducted by political hacks appointed by Bush and Cheney. In most cases, the hacks were young, knew nothing about Iraq, and knew nothing about their asigned fields.

 

[kai]

The war was conducted by professional military officers. The postwar was conducted by political hacks appointed by Bush and Cheney. In most cases, the hacks were young, knew nothing about Iraq, and knew nothing about their asigned fields.

How did they get it so wrong?


Pre-war Planning for Post-war Iraq

 

[Sunstone]

How did they get it so wrong?


Pre-war Planning for Post-war Iraq

I heard that, among other things, Cheney and Rumsfeld would only allow plans that fit with their preconceptions.