Was Moses even a Hebrew?

[Remté]

The Qur'an is a war manual, and it is placed out-of-order on purpose to prevent non-Muslims from seeing/understanding what Islam is doing. When you place the Qur'an in its proper historical order, it assumes the war manual form it is .

For a moment I considered the possibility you have read the Quran sometime. But now that's out the window. Why would you go to such lenghts without reading it properly?

 

[Kenny]

It is not my saying something is false that makes it false

But you did!

 

[shmogie]

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, Judaism is obviously false.
If Judaism is false, Christianity and Islam are also false.

The son of Amenhotep III (Akhunatun) has almost too many striking similarities to the biblical Moses.

He grew up and was educated in the Egyptian mystery schools, attained a co-regency with his father and began preaching monotheism: the worship of only one god (Atun) [or Aten]. He decommissioned all other existing forms of worship to the point where he was expelled from Egypt by the military (controlled by the clergy who were losing business), only to return to claim the throne and be rejected and taking his own followers with him into the desert. All of this transpired around the time between 1300 BCE and 1000 BCE (depending on when one places the Exodus, of which there were actually two).

So if Moses is a mythical figure who was given a Hebrew identity, despite having actually been an Egyptian, then the entire god of Abraham paradigm is based on falsehood from the beginning regarding the Hebrews being the "chosen" people. The Canaanite god 'el' is found everywhere in the books of Moses, only to later be replaced by YHVH.

This would render Moses a false prophet, Jesus a false prophet, and Muhammad a false prophet. It would also explain why humanity has been at war for thousands of years due to the principle division of "believer" vs. "unbeliever" as is so prevalent in Christianity and Islam: both having spread by the sword. Judaism treats non-Jews in a similar way: so-called "gentiles" and/or "goyim". The labels begin in religion: someone is always something.

The profound attachment(s) [worship] people have to/for these religious figures is precisely the scheme that has been used time and again: erect a central figure (not necessarily physical), imbue this figure with fantastical qualities, start a religion based on them, and implore adherents to take this figure as their "example" on how to live.

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, all of these Abrahamic faiths are essentially idol worship. As it is obvious to me what probably "happened" with Moses/Akhunatun, the (earlier) god of Abraham is nothing but a mythological story concocted by the Jews (Shasu; "Israelites") to justify their existence. This has interesting implications relating to why Islam is hostile to Jews and the State of Israel: of course they would be, but unfortunately Islam is just as degenerated as Judaism is, as it is a product of it. Islam makes the same claims for itself that Judaism does: both are (apparently) in possession of the perfect word of god, both worship only one god, and both are gods "chosen" people. This huge mess is inherently a Semitic problem that has its roots from ancient Egypt, and these "cults" have (and continue to) create many problems on the planet, none of which have ever ended without bloodshed.

What pap.

 

[The Anointed]

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, Judaism is obviously false.
If Judaism is false, Christianity and Islam are also false.

The son of Amenhotep III (Akhunatun) has almost too many striking similarities to the biblical Moses.

He grew up and was educated in the Egyptian mystery schools, attained a co-regency with his father and began preaching monotheism: the worship of only one god (Atun) [or Aten]. He decommissioned all other existing forms of worship to the point where he was expelled from Egypt by the military (controlled by the clergy who were losing business), only to return to claim the throne and be rejected and taking his own followers with him into the desert. All of this transpired around the time between 1300 BCE and 1000 BCE (depending on when one places the Exodus, of which there were actually two).

So if Moses is a mythical figure who was given a Hebrew identity, despite having actually been an Egyptian, then the entire god of Abraham paradigm is based on falsehood from the beginning regarding the Hebrews being the "chosen" people. The Canaanite god 'el' is found everywhere in the books of Moses, only to later be replaced by YHVH.

This would render Moses a false prophet, Jesus a false prophet, and Muhammad a false prophet. It would also explain why humanity has been at war for thousands of years due to the principle division of "believer" vs. "unbeliever" as is so prevalent in Christianity and Islam: both having spread by the sword. Judaism treats non-Jews in a similar way: so-called "gentiles" and/or "goyim". The labels begin in religion: someone is always something.

The profound attachment(s) [worship] people have to/for these religious figures is precisely the scheme that has been used time and again: erect a central figure (not necessarily physical), imbue this figure with fantastical qualities, start a religion based on them, and implore adherents to take this figure as their "example" on how to live.

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, all of these Abrahamic faiths are essentially idol worship. As it is obvious to me what probably "happened" with Moses/Akhunatun, the (earlier) god of Abraham is nothing but a mythological story concocted by the Jews (Shasu; "Israelites") to justify their existence. This has interesting implications relating to why Islam is hostile to Jews and the State of Israel: of course they would be, but unfortunately Islam is just as degenerated as Judaism is, as it is a product of it. Islam makes the same claims for itself that Judaism does: both are (apparently) in possession of the perfect word of god, both worship only one god, and both are gods "chosen" people. This huge mess is inherently a Semitic problem that has its roots from ancient Egypt, and these "cults" have (and continue to) create many problems on the planet, none of which have ever ended without bloodshed.

A lot of IFS there, and 'IF' being the operative word.

IF, and I repeat "IF" you believe the Holy scriptures, you would know that Moses was the son of Jochebed the daughter of Levi, who was sired by Ambram the grandson of Levi, who were both born on the same day, when Levi the son of Jacob/Israel was ninety four.

But "IF" you don't believe the scriptures and are just another atheist, who haunt the religious forums in their attempts to cast doubt on the Holy Scriptures, why would any believer bother to debate the issue with one who hasn't a clue as to the truths revealed in those scriptures?

 

[blü 2]

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, Judaism is obviously false.

If you're familiar with the archaeology, you'll know that there very likely was no Egyptian captivity, no Exodus, no Moses. Instead the scene shifts to the Egyptian occupation of the Near East, Egypt up to Canaan.

And with Christianity and Islam, there may have been an historical Jesus and there may have been an historical Muhammad; or there may not. (As I understand it, the evidence for an historical Gautama Buddha is reasonably persuasive, and though he too has the pseudephigraph problem, it's not on the scale of Islam's.)

If Judaism is false, Christianity and Islam are also false.

More false than any other religion? Until we have an objective test for deciding between religions, and I don't see one coming down the track any time soon, it's all acculturation, all pre-rational, isn't it?

The son of Amenhotep III (Akhunatun) has almost too many striking similarities to the biblical Moses.

Except that there's little doubt that Akhenaten was an historical figure, a real pharaoh. He can be seen retrospectively to have been monotheist in his outlook, but neither his religion nor his monotheistic tendency survived him. Judaism meanwhile remained henotheistic until the Babylonian captivity, say 500 BCE, so the idea that Akhenaten is the source of Jewish monotheism both seems very unlikely and is unsupported by evidence.

 

[The Anointed]

If you're familiar with the archaeology, you'll know that there very likely was no Egyptian captivity, no Exodus, no Moses. Instead the scene shifts to the Egyptian occupation of the Near East, Egypt up to Canaan.

And with Christianity and Islam, there may have been an historical Jesus and there may have been an historical Muhammad; or there may not. (As I understand it, the evidence for an historical Gautama Buddha is reasonably persuasive, and though he too has the pseudephigraph problem, it's not on the scale of Islam's.)
More false than any other religion? Until we have an objective test for deciding between religions, and I don't see one coming down the track any time soon, it's all acculturation, all pre-rational, isn't it?
Except that there's little doubt that Akhenaten was an historical figure, a real pharaoh. He can be seen retrospectively to have been monotheist in his outlook, but neither his religion nor his monotheistic tendency survived him. Judaism meanwhile remained henotheistic until the Babylonian captivity, say 500 BCE, so the idea that Akhenaten is the source of Jewish monotheism both seems very unlikely and is unsupported by evidence.

If you're familiar with the archaeology, you'll know that The Shepherd kings who entered Egypt of their own free will and made slaves of all the Egyptians without striking a blow, left Egypt, in the event that is called the Exodus around 1567 B.C., according to Josephus the historian, and some 40 years later destroyed the city of Jericho, according to Kathleen Kenyon a most respected archaeologist.

 

[blü 2]

If you're familiar with the archaeology, you'll know that The Shepherd kings who entered Egypt of their own free will and made slaves of all the Egyptians without striking a blow, left Egypt, in the event that is called the Exodus around 1567 B.C., according to Josephus the historian, and some 40 years later destroyed the city of Jericho, according to Kathleen Kenyon a most respected archaeologist.

Canaanite peoples had settled in the eastern Nile delta by the 18th century BCE. The Hyksos, thought to be a Semitic-Hurrian mix, were settled in the Nile Delta by the mid 17th century BCE. After wars with both the Canaanite and Egyptian people the Hyksos were expelled around the mid-16th century BCE.

The earliest traces of Yahweh are from around 1500 BCE, where he appears in the Canaanite pantheon and as was usual, was associated with Asherah as his consort.

 

[dybmh]

For perspective:

"Politician who said 'the Quran is poison' announces he has become a Muslim after trying to write anti-Islam book"

Politician who said 'Islam is a lie' announces he has become a Muslim

 

[The Anointed]

Canaanite peoples had settled in the eastern Nile delta by the 18th century BCE. The Hyksos, thought to be a Semitic-Hurrian mix, were settled in the Nile Delta by the mid 17th century BCE. After wars with both the Canaanite and Egyptian people the Hyksos were expelled around the mid-16th century BCE.

The earliest traces of Yahweh are from around 1500 BCE, where he appears in the Canaanite pantheon and as was usual, was associated with Asherah as his consort.

Although it is said in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years, in Galatians 3: 17; Paul makes it quite clear that they were in the land of Egypt for only 215 years. See Gal 3: 17; which states, “God made a covenant/promise with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given [through Moses] 430 years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God’s promise.”

Paul was a student of Gamaliel one of the greatest Jewish teachers of those days, and if we accept Paul’s statement, that there was a period of 430 years between the time that God promised to Abraham, all the land that was occupied by the descendants of Canaan and the exodus, then we must conclude that the children of Israel were only in Egypt for 215 years.

Abraham, who had entered Canaan at the age of 75, 25 years later when he was 100 sired Isaac, who was 60 when his son Jacob was born, and Jacob was 130 when he was reunited with his son Joseph in the land of Egypt. 25+60+130=215. So we see that there was a period of 215 years between God’s promise to Abraham and the entry of the family of Israel into Egypt, where they dwelt for 215 years before departing 430 years after the covenant/promise was first made with Abraham.

The erroneous Roman OT, states in Exodus 12: 40; that the children of Israel were in Egypt for 430 years to the day, Whereas the Hebrew Bible from which Jesus and his apostles taught, in Exodus 12: 40 reveals that the sojourning of the children of Israel, while they sojourned in the land of Egypt AND THE LAND OF CANAAN, was 430 years. And it came to pass, after the 430 years, all the forces of the Lord came out of the land of Egypt by night.

And so, the reason why there are no records of the Exodus in the time period in which our historians have searched and which the bible student, who believe the erroneous statement that the children of Israel were in Egypt for 430 years and must therefore have departed somewhere in the time period of the 1300 B.C, is because the Exodus and the expulsion of the old Hyksos Kings in the 15TH century B.C, are one and the same event.

From the Encarta encyclopedia: In the early part of the 17TH century B.C, Semetic invaders (Called Hyksos) swept into Egypt, most likely from Palestine and Syria. They would control Egypt for roughly two centuries.” --- (215 years if we are to believe the Bible.) The establishment of a Hyksos dynasty in northern Egypt marked the beginning of the Second Intermediate period, a time of turmoil and disunity that lasted for some 215 years.

From ‘The World Book Dictionary,’ (Hyksos) “A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt—from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings.” --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, ‘Hyksos’, invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of “King Tutimaios” entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567 B.C.

Genesis 41: After Joseph had revealed to the king that his dreams were a prophecy telling of a seven year period of plenty, which would be followed by a seven year period of severe drought, Joseph is made Governor of all Egypt, and all Egyptians were commanded by the King to obey him.

The King removed his royal ring with its engraved seal and put it on the finger of Joseph. He was given the second royal chariot and a guard of honour who went ahead of him crying out, “Make way, make way.” And the King said: I am King, but no one in all of Egypt shall so much as lift a hand or a foot without Joseph’s permission.

He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath, the daughter of the High priest of Heliopolis, who prophesied that if ever the bones of Joseph left Egypt, the LIGHT of Egypt would go with him. For that reason, a permanent guard was set up to keep watch over the tomb of Joseph, in order that no one could remove the mummified body of Joseph.

During the seven years of plenty, Joseph gathered a percentage of the Egyptian grain crop as a tax, which was stored in silos throughout Egypt. In the early stages of the great seven-year drought, the Egyptians had to buy their grain from Joseph, when their money had all gone, they traded their possessions and livestock, after which, they were forced to sign their land over for grain in order to survive.

Genesis 47: 20-21. Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced to sell their land, because the famine was so severe; Joseph made slaves of all the people from one end of Egypt to the other, without striking a blow.

If Josephus the historian is correct and the exodus of the Shepherd Kings did occur in 1567 BC, and Jericho was destroyed after they had wandered in the desert for 40 years, then according to the biblical account, the destruction of Jericho would have occurred around 1527 BC. 1567-40=1527.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.

1562 (minus 38 years) [1562-38=1524 BC.] this would mean that Jericho fell somewhere between 1562 and 1524 BC, close enough to the 40 years after Josephus’ date for the Exodus in 1567. [1567-40=1527 BC]

 

[blü 2]

Although it is said in Exodus 12: 40; that the Israelites had lived in Egypt for 430 years, in Galatians 3: 17; Paul makes it quite clear that they were in the land of Egypt for only 215 years. See Gal 3: 17; which states, “God made a covenant/promise with Abraham and promised to keep it. The Law that was given [through Moses] 430 years later, cannot break that covenant and cancel God’s promise.”

Paul's statements may or may not reflect the understanding of his time, including the Egyptian captivity. They are not authoritative statements useful to archaeology unless they can be corroborated.

The 'history' in the Torah is likewise as reliable as the evidence corroborating it.

 

[The Anointed]

Paul's statements may or may not reflect the understanding of his time, including the Egyptian captivity. They are not authoritative statements useful to archaeology unless they can be corroborated.

The 'history' in the Torah is likewise as reliable as the evidence corroborating it.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

I believe that here is the archaeological evidence that proves Josephus the Historian, who claims that the Shepherd Kings were the Israelites and that they left Egypt in 1567 B.C., some 40 years before the fall of Jericho, is correct.

 

[9-18-1]

A myth has been defined as "something that never happened but is always true" or "a story to think with". Moses is a Jewish myth — indeed he is the Jewish myth. There is no historical or archeological evidence to confirm his existence, the "Egyptian captivity", or the exodus. The story of his birth is the well-known folktale motif, "the man born to be king". The story of the exodus is a folk memory of the expulsion of the Hyksos. But the myth defined who the Israelites though they were and what their place in the world was. And such a myth is more important to those who tell it than any history could be.

This is a great response - you pretty much nailed it. This "the man born to be king" motif is also present in Islam as with Muhammad. It's the same "holy hero" story that binds people to the hero. This is the basis of why I argue that Christianity and Islam are fundamentally idol worship, as was the case with the Hyksos building an 'idol' Moses from Akhunatun.

For a moment I considered the possibility you have read the Quran sometime. But now that's out the window. Why would you go to such lenghts without reading it properly?

I did read it; but I also studied it and its origins first, because I wanted to know "what" I was actually reading. Muslims "believe" that it is the perfect, inimitable, unaltered, inerrant word of god. They have no basis for this, they just "believe" it because that is what they are "told". The Jews "believe" the same of their Torah - it's the same delusion.

The Qur'an is at least in 1/3 part derived from Christian strophic hymns and apocryphal texts that were originally written in Syriac. The Qur'an is essentially a collection of apocryphal poetry from various sources, which were adapted into Arabic and imbued with a context of a prophetic delivery. It is a man-made book, as is the bible, and Muhammad serves the same role Jesus does in Christianity: serve as the central figure upon whom to base the empire. This is why Islam is, like Christianity, idol worship.

Of course Islam teaches its adherents the opposite: there are no idols in Islam. The culture of Islam therefor is to destroy everyone else's culture, which is precisely what Islam has done and does - the Christians before them (Rome; Greeks) did the same: divide the world between "believer" and "unbeliever". This is the basis of all religious conflict over the past few thousand years and Islam is *not* a part of the solution - it is a part of the problem. That Muslims "believe" therefor imbue a man-made book with divine authority and absorb / imitate Muhammad (as like an idol worshiper) is the problem.

A lot of IFS there, and 'IF' being the operative word.

IF, and I repeat "IF" you believe the Holy scriptures, you would know that Moses was the son of Jochebed the daughter of Levi, who was sired by Ambram the grandson of Levi, who were both born on the same day, when Levi the son of Jacob/Israel was ninety four.

But "IF" you don't believe the scriptures and are just another atheist, who haunt the religious forums in their attempts to cast doubt on the Holy Scriptures, why would any believer bother to debate the issue with one who hasn't a clue as to the truths revealed in those scriptures?

"Belief" is not a virtue. I don't "believe" anything and feel that people who are "believers" are also ignorant, because they don't actually "know". In lieu of knowing, they "believe" which is easy to do, but makes one stupid. The whole point of 'science' in its most general sense is to ask questions and seek to answer them. That's 'science': method of inquiry. Now 'con' means self, so a science of ones own being would be 'conscience'.

And "belief" does not require a conscience. There is no inquiry in a "belief". This is why "believers" (ie. Muslims) are actually retarded and no longer evolving.

I'm not "just another atheist", whatever that is (or is not; an atheist does not "believe" anything, rather rejects all outstanding claims about god), but atheists are grounded more firmly in reality than any "believer" who "believes" things. For example, believing the Bible is the work/word of god is more dangerous than an atheist not believing such a thing: there were at least 4 authors for the books of Moses alone, let alone the dozens of the Bible.

Now however, the book of Genesis (when read outside the context of any/all religious institutions) is a book of alchemy and kaballah. It encodes the mystery of creation inside of itself - something that I discovered only after learning the structure of the Hebrew language and the symbology of each of the letters. The letters (words) contain the meaning, which are immediately forfeit once you translate it into a foreign language such as English.

For an English-speaking person to read an English Bible and say "this is the word of god" is just retarded. The English Bible and the Hebrew books of Moses are two different things. You can't understand how the authors perceived creation as a process/system ("generation") unless you understand the language/system they used, which is Hebrew/Aramaic.

So forgive me when I immediately dismiss people who talk about "Holy Scriptures" without even knowing what language they were actually written in. It's very silly.

 

[Prestor John]

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, Judaism is obviously false.
If Judaism is false, Christianity and Islam are also false.

The son of Amenhotep III (Akhunatun) has almost too many striking similarities to the biblical Moses.

He grew up and was educated in the Egyptian mystery schools, attained a co-regency with his father and began preaching monotheism: the worship of only one god (Atun) [or Aten]. He decommissioned all other existing forms of worship to the point where he was expelled from Egypt by the military (controlled by the clergy who were losing business), only to return to claim the throne and be rejected and taking his own followers with him into the desert. All of this transpired around the time between 1300 BCE and 1000 BCE (depending on when one places the Exodus, of which there were actually two).

So if Moses is a mythical figure who was given a Hebrew identity, despite having actually been an Egyptian, then the entire god of Abraham paradigm is based on falsehood from the beginning regarding the Hebrews being the "chosen" people. The Canaanite god 'el' is found everywhere in the books of Moses, only to later be replaced by YHVH.

This would render Moses a false prophet, Jesus a false prophet, and Muhammad a false prophet. It would also explain why humanity has been at war for thousands of years due to the principle division of "believer" vs. "unbeliever" as is so prevalent in Christianity and Islam: both having spread by the sword. Judaism treats non-Jews in a similar way: so-called "gentiles" and/or "goyim". The labels begin in religion: someone is always something.

The profound attachment(s) [worship] people have to/for these religious figures is precisely the scheme that has been used time and again: erect a central figure (not necessarily physical), imbue this figure with fantastical qualities, start a religion based on them, and implore adherents to take this figure as their "example" on how to live.

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, all of these Abrahamic faiths are essentially idol worship. As it is obvious to me what probably "happened" with Moses/Akhunatun, the (earlier) god of Abraham is nothing but a mythological story concocted by the Jews (Shasu; "Israelites") to justify their existence. This has interesting implications relating to why Islam is hostile to Jews and the State of Israel: of course they would be, but unfortunately Islam is just as degenerated as Judaism is, as it is a product of it. Islam makes the same claims for itself that Judaism does: both are (apparently) in possession of the perfect word of god, both worship only one god, and both are gods "chosen" people. This huge mess is inherently a Semitic problem that has its roots from ancient Egypt, and these "cults" have (and continue to) create many problems on the planet, none of which have ever ended without bloodshed.

"According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known/recorded historical conflicts, 123, or 6.98%, had religion as their primary cause."

Religious war - Wikipedia

People have been labeling other people "different" since before recorded history.

The idea that religion is the cause of all misery and woe is ridiculous and a revision of history.

 

[Remté]

The idea that religion is the cause of all misery and woe is ridiculous and a revision of history.

You put it so well with so few words. There's a want of short answers here.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, Judaism is obviously false.

Moses didn't exist, but I don't see how an exiled Egyptian makes "Judaism" untrue. I would argue more that Judaism is the religion of a southern country that split from its parent country (kind of like the CSA) and decided all the religious aspects of the parent country was wrong. El was the God of Isra-EL. Yahweh was the God of Judah. After Israel's destruction, last man standing got to claim divine victory.

If Judaism is false, Christianity and Islam are also false.

The worldviews don't have to be "false" even if there is little to no historical fact in them.

I mean, I currently have little to no faith in any Abrahamic tradition regarding worldview and consider the Dharmic ones superior even if not perfect, but that's me.

The son of Amenhotep III (Akhunatun) has almost too many striking similarities to the biblical Moses.

He grew up and was educated in the Egyptian mystery schools, attained a co-regency with his father and began preaching monotheism: the worship of only one god (Atun) [or Aten]. He decommissioned all other existing forms of worship to the point where he was expelled from Egypt by the military (controlled by the clergy who were losing business), only to return to claim the throne and be rejected and taking his own followers with him into the desert. All of this transpired around the time between 1300 BCE and 1000 BCE (depending on when one places the Exodus, of which there were actually two).

I was under the impression Tut was forced to restore the polytheistic infrastructure. It was his dad, Ankenaten who did all the banning.

then the entire god of Abraham paradigm is based on falsehood from the beginning regarding the Hebrews being the "chosen" people

Canaanites had Yah, previously called Yam (the Sea) as part of El's pantheon. Egypt also worshiped Canaanite deities. Rameses II loved Anat, who was a Canaanite War Goddess. Anat, in some texts, became Athena in Greece when the pantheon was exported there (El became Cronus, Baal Hadad became Zeus, and Yah became Poseidon).

You can kind of tell what countries traded with what countries based on shared mythologies.

If Moses wasn't a Hebrew, all of these Abrahamic faiths are essentially idol worship.

There's more to Judaism's history than Moses. Moses is as unessential as Adam and Eve, really. The bible almost implies King Josiah practically made him up. A "law book of Moses" is found but other than that, there were no other scriptures, which means the rest of the so-called books of Moses were invented at that time at the earliest. King Josiah isn't even compared to Moses, but to David. It's like nobody knows who Moses is until this convenient law book is "found" (one wonders how dry the ink was).

There was no Hebrew Moses - it is a fictional character based on the historical Akhunatun, who was not a Hebrew, but an Egyptian.

Even the name is Egyptian. You even have several "Ra-m'ses", which shows the root word was an Egyptian thing.

This began in Judaism: turning the Egyptian Akhunatun into a Hebrew savior-man that justifies the state of Israel.

Or it's about a tribe so racist that it can't accept they are really just Canaanites so it has to borrow someone from another country to sound special. Or maybe the people writing the stories wrote them so long after the purported events they simply made stuff up due to historical ignorance.

Islam is like a mental illness

There are plenty of people in the psych wing, though. Don't just pick on Islam.

It is stated 89 times in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the most exemplary pattern of conduct or example to emulate.

Yeah, but did "Islam" write that or the people fighting over the religious leadership after he died? Same thing with Jesus: the Way doesn't require personality cults, even if some of the authors clearly tossed the Way aside because kissing a former leader's behind is easier.

Muhammad essentially killed anyone/everyone that questioned his so-called being the final 'companion' to Allah, which is the only true god according to Islam. 1400 years later, hundreds of millions are dead, Islam is waging war against the entire West, and the House of Islam executes people who criticize or insult Muhammad. Look at what happened with Aasia Bibi: see how the idol worshipers are offended by this woman. This Canaanite desire to spill blood goes hand in hand with taking offense and idol worship, which are both the same.

The Christian church didn't even want people to be able to READ the scriptures. For CENTURIES. Everyone who tried to mass-produce it got punished or killed.

When you combine this with the fact that the Qur'an is knowingly forged from Christian strophic hymns and apocryphal works, along with the modifications the book has undergone since its only-existing version was the Uthmanic one after he burned all others (book burning is never a good thing), as well as the fact that there was never a central historical prophet Muhammad until the time of Abd al-Malik (late 7th CE) when he starting distributing a currency with prophetic imagery on it.

Again, we shouldn't just pick on Islam, given that Hellenization and other influences run rampant throughout Judaism and Christianity as well.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Worshiping, or using as example, dead men is insane, that applies equally to both Christianity and Islam for me.

Dead people aren't around to tell the adherents that they're wrong. That's probably the majority of the motivation. Go to any thread where someone claims their religion is awesome and there is no current prophet and ask why not. The "need" for a prophet is either not there at all or a new one will come conveniently after many generations are dead. If not that, the only other reason I can assume is that a dead leader can be "deified" or honored and pesky things like personal drama can be forgotten. We want heroes quite unlike the ancient versions. The ancient heroes were all crap with hardly any redeeming qualities. They were "heroes" only in the sense their plotlines were awesome. That's it. However, once heroes began to be seen as role models, you see a shift in storytelling priorities. Compare Herakles with Disney's Hercules for an example.

The first is that the Hebrews grew as a group through a combination of birth, marriage and accepting outsiders. Abraham "made souls" -- that is, he, and his household (including slaves) became the "Hebrew" group. Upon the Exodus, the mixed multitude attached itself to the escaping slaves and became part of the group. So Moses, even without the birth connection, could, by philosophy and belief, be a "Hebrew." His wife was from Midian and yet she became part of the Hebrew people (Moses even invited his father in law to join up).

Yeah. From what I understand, the word simply meant something like "nomad" or whatever, which isn't even a race, just a lifestyle.

I do not grant that Balaam was a prophet, or that Aaron/Moses even existed - these are beliefs. If Moses (granting he or something like him existed) was not a Hebrew, this is fatal to Judaism

It isn't, though. He might be the mascot but he's not the only source of inspiration in Judaism.

This is encoded into the life of Muhammad: he starts as a nothing-burger and becomes king of Arabia under the guidance of Allah.

"King of Arabia"?

There are references to historical events having taken place which, historically, did not take place.

Of course it's political propaganda, but that doesn't change the fact that "Hebrews", like rosends said, didn't consist of an ethnically homogeneous people.

The Quran is the core.

I believe to conflate any scriptures with the "core" to be idolatrous, really. It just seems odd to me just how many claim to worship God but then come up with any excuse to find something else to listen to.

Meaning God is the main thing, not the irrelevancies.

True.

spilling the blood of people who criticize a pedophile man for having 11 wives

Muhammad can't even compare to the horniness issues of many biblical characters.

and committing genocide

Again, the bible is also guilty of this.

The state of Palestine is just as much a Semitic illusion as the state of Israel is: both based in falsity, and this is why there is conflict.

The Palestinians LIVED THERE. They continue to have their homes taken from them. It has been non-Israeli far longer than it has been Israeli. Look up any major Israeli city and you'll find Hebrews/Israelites/Jews didn't even found them. Syria and Egypt owned that land more than any current group. What is going on in Gaza is eminent domain from hell.

Well it is already attested to by P2 Freemasons and held in the Catholic Encyclopedia (according to a journalist Benjamin Fulford - I have not seen it myself as its not accessible to the public) that Muhammad was trained in the Vatican and Islam was designed/intended to consolidate the Arabian peninsula under a monotheism.

And we should definitely just take some cult and Catholics' words for it. (I say "cult" in terms of Freemasons because my grandfather had a Mason funeral and how DARE the preacher disrespect his Wiccan nieces when that crap was as pagan as it gets.) The Vatican can't honestly be trusted to be unbiased in their opinions either. They wanted to be in charge of everything and Muslims proved they couldn't just rest on their laurels.

One would have to read through the works of people like John Wansborough, Gunter Luling, Luxenberg etc. who disseminate the Qur'an and reduce it back into what it originally read as: Christian strophic hymns.

If the authors you've read argue that any religion can be traced to one source, they're lying. The ancient world did a lot of trading of not just products, but ideas. No religion is immune to this. There's enough baggage for each Abrahamic tradition to reach the moon and back several times over.

The problem is Islam is asserting itself as a solution when in fact it is a problem.

But why pick on them? You admit it happens in the other religions of Abraham too. No Abrahamic religion has created a utopia to date.

The problem actually starts with how people manage their sexual energy: it is the first story in the first book of Moses. The brain and sex are a polarity: one works off the other.

I can totally imagine you doing youtube videos and ending up on Professor Stick's channel.

This is what makes Muhammad an archetypal psychopathic warlord: many wives, sex slaves, nightly fornications, pedophilia etc. and like many corrupt politicians, involved in running human trafficking networks.

David and Solomon make Muhammad look like a virgin.

When you place the Qur'an in its proper historical order, it assumes the war manual form it is - a cyclic progression of how to subdue and eradicate all "disbelief".

It's about a guy who gets stressed out and becomes the kind of people he's trying to reform. Had Jesus lived longer than he did, he'd have done the same thing. He was already destroying things that didn't belong to him even just a few months into his career.

So here is an obvious prophecy that even a retarded child could make: there will never be peace on this planet so long as there are religious institutions which continue to employ a division-based world view (ie. "believer" and "unbeliever") utilizing male patriarchal figures.

"developmentally delayed"

I'm sticking with the Bible.

Kinda proves the idolatry point, though, doesn't it?

Jews do all they can to keep up antisemitisim.

I wouldn't argue it's Jews but certain Jewish factions and the Israeli government. Your average Jew I doubt would care. Not even all Israelis believe what their government is doing is right. I certainly don't want to be seen like Trump because I'm from the US, so I try to extend the same courtesy to citizens of other countries.

And the world is not "dragged into it", it wants to help the oppressed because it is getting more and more difficult for the Israelis to hide their war crimes.

The thing that irritates me most is hearing in news articles about how Israel feels it's on the verge of destruction but if you go by all their tourism commercials, everything seems fine and dandy, so come on and spend your money, rich white(?) people.

You'd think if it were that bad, they wouldn't be accepting tourists. Seems unethical.

The earliest traces of Yahweh are from around 1500 BCE, where he appears in the Canaanite pantheon and as was usual, was associated with Asherah as his consort.

Or She was El's. That's why in my book (I've hired an editor to help this time ) Yahweh tried to pull an Absalom (sorta) and rape His Mother to claim the throne. Reading about the Epic of Baal, it's not too far from the mythology, perhaps only a slight exaggeration. Asherah's main thing was the Lake of Galilee. I realized the Jordan River might make it look like the Dead Sea is "raping" the Sea of Galilee, or at least copulating with it. In my story, the rape explains why the Dead Sea is dead, because Asherah cursed Yahweh after the rape so that nothing in His sea (Yah was once named Yam, which is "Sea") would live ever again.

He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath

See, 9-18-1? Even Joseph's Egyptian wife has a name based on Anat, a non-natively Egyptian goddess.

For an English-speaking person to read an English Bible and say "this is the word of god" is just retarded.

Honestly ... if I, as a nurse, am not allowed to use an actual medical diagnosis because it might offend people because stupid people use it as a slur, I would hope others could just find a new word too.

 

[blü 2]

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

I believe that here is the archaeological evidence that proves Josephus the Historian, who claims that the Shepherd Kings were the Israelites and that they left Egypt in 1567 B.C., some 40 years before the fall of Jericho, is correct.

As I mentioned above, it's thought that the Hyksos were a Semitic-Hurrian mix. Hurrian was from a distinct language family, perhaps still represented in some modern Georgian languages. No Hurrian linguistic influences have been found in Hebrew writings that I'm aware of.

 

[blü 2]

Or She was El's. That's why in my book (I've hired an editor to help this time ) Yahweh tried to pull an Absalom (sorta) and rape His Mother to claim the throne. Reading about the Epic of Baal, it's not too far from the mythology, perhaps only a slight exaggeration. Asherah's main thing was the Lake of Galilee. I realized the Jordan River might make it look like the Dead Sea is "raping" the Sea of Galilee, or at least copulating with it. In my story, the rape explains why the Dead Sea is dead, because Asherah cursed Yahweh after the rape so that nothing in His sea (Yah was once named Yam, which is "Sea") would live ever again.

Ah, many thanks for the clarification! I've cut that out to paste into Marvels of the Holy Lands (12 vols, Lexington KY 1843).

 

[dybmh]

In this thread and others you have stated unequivocally that Islam encourages violence against opposing beliefs.

It would be more accurate to say some versions of Islam encourage this.

Please consider the following:

"The question often asked is whether Islam condones and teaches the forced and armed conversion of non-Muslims. This is the image sometimes projected by Western scholars and as any Muslim scholar will tell you, is seriously flawed. The Qur’an clearly states “There is no compulsion in religion, the path of guidance stands out clear from error” [2:256] and [60:8]. In this verse, the word “rushd” or “path of guidance” refers to the entire domain of human life, not just to the rites and theology of Islam"

Jihad: A Misunderstood Concept from Islam - Forced Conversion?

 

[The Anointed]

As I mentioned above, it's thought that the Hyksos were a Semitic-Hurrian mix. Hurrian was from a distinct language family, perhaps still represented in some modern Georgian languages. No Hurrian linguistic influences have been found in Hebrew writings that I'm aware of.

Blu 2 Wrote...…. As I mentioned above, it's thought that the Hyksos were a Semitic-Hurrian mix.

The Anointed...…. Thought by whom? Certainly not by Josephus the Historian, who Identifies the Hyksos as the Israelites who left Egypt in 1567 B. C.

Ham was the first born of Noah, but because of what Canaan the son of Ham and youngest descendant of Noah, had done to him while he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor, Noah cursed Canaan and passed the rights of first born onto Shem.

It was for this reason, that the descendants of Abraham in the line of first born from Shem, were sent into the Land of Ham (Egypt) where they interbred with the descendants of the first born of Noah, for 215 years, After which all the first born in the line of Ham were eliminated and the Israelites in whom was now the spirit of first born, were called out of Egypt. (I will call my son out of Egypt.)