Was Moses even a Hebrew?

[blü 2]

Blu 2 Wrote...…. As I mentioned above, it's thought that the Hyksos were a Semitic-Hurrian mix.

The Anointed...…. Thought by whom? Certainly not by Josephus the Historian, who Identifies the Hyksos as the Israelites who left Egypt in 1567 B. C.

By people who've studied the linguistic evidence left behind by the Hyksos in the Nile Delta region. If Josephus undertook such an enquiry, he doesn't mention it.

Ham was the first born of Noah, but because of what Canaan the son of Ham and youngest descendant of Noah, had done to him while he lay naked in his tent in a drunken stupor, Noah cursed Canaan and passed the rights of first born onto Shem.

Now you're taking folktales as evidence. The tale of Noah (though possibly not the 'sons of Noah' part) is borrowed from Mesopotamia, probably from Babylon (with Uta-napishti as the Noah character), or perhaps from the horse's mouth, the Sumerians, where images on a (roller) seal of Ziasudra, the Sumerian Noah, have been dated to around 2500 BCE. Yahweh doesn't occur in history till around 1500 BCE, as you doubtless know.

 

[The Anointed]

By people who've studied the linguistic evidence left behind by the Hyksos in the Nile Delta region. If Josephus undertook such an enquiry, he doesn't mention it.
Now you're taking folktales as evidence. The tale of Noah (though possibly not the 'sons of Noah' part) is borrowed from Mesopotamia, probably from Babylon (with Uta-napishti as the Noah character), or perhaps from the horse's mouth, the Sumerians, where images on a (roller) seal of Ziasudra, the Sumerian Noah, have been dated to around 2500 BCE. Yahweh doesn't occur in history till around 1500 BCE, as you doubtless know.

No mate, I'm talking biblical records..

You do realise that according to the Roman OT, which is a translation of the Hebrew bible by Jerome in the 4th century of the Christian era, Abraham was born 58 years before the death of Noah.

2 years after the flood, when Shem was 100 Arpachshad was born. When Arpachshad was 35 Shelah was born. when Shelah was 30 Eber was born, when Eber was 34 Peleg was born, when Peleg was 30 Reu was born, when Reu was 32 Serug was born, when Serug was 30 Nahor was born, when Nahor was 29 Terah was born, when Teral was 70 Abraham was born 292 years after the flood and 58 years before the death of Noah. who lived for 350 years after the flood.

2+35+30+34+30+32+30+29+70=292. ….350-292=58.

And you do realise also that Abraham's Father [Terah] was the High priest in the Chaldean temple of Ur, in the land of the Sumerians.

And thank you for verifying the scriptures, in that Jehovah did not reveal his name until he spoke with the 80 year old Moses Just before the Israelite Shepherd kings left Egypt in 1567 B.C.

 

[blü 2]

And thank you for verifying the scriptures, in that Jehovah did not reveal his name until he spoke with the 80 year old Moses Just before the Israelite Shepherd kings left Egypt in 1567 B.C.

[He] wouldn't have needed a name until [he] had a following anyway.

I guess being admitted into the Canaanite pantheon must have been a bit like getting into an exclusive golf club.

 

[The Anointed]

[He] wouldn't have needed a name until [he] had a following anyway.

I guess being admitted into the Canaanite pantheon must have been a bit like getting into an exclusive golf club.

blu 2 wrote……[He] wouldn't have needed a name until [he] had a following anyway.

I guess being admitted into the Canaanite pantheon must have been a bit like getting into an exclusive golf club.

Yahweh doesn't occur in history till around 1500 BCE, as you doubtless know.

The Anointed...….. You are absolutely correct, the name JHWH does not occur in history, until the 1500 B.C., when the Lord gave his name to Moses as JHWH.

Thank you for proving that JHWH was never in the Canaanite pantheon, until after the Lord had revealed his name to the Israelites.

 

[Subduction Zone]

blu 2 wrote……[He] wouldn't have needed a name until [he] had a following anyway.

I guess being admitted into the Canaanite pantheon must have been a bit like getting into an exclusive golf club.

Yahweh doesn't occur in history till around 1500 BCE, as you doubtless know.

The Anointed...….. You are absolutely correct, the name JHWH does not occur in history, until the 1500 B.C., when the Lord gave his name to Moses as JHWH.

Thank you for proving that JHWH was never in the Canaanite pantheon, until after the Lord had revealed his name to the Israelites.

Your dates appear to be about a thousand years off. The OT is much younger than you think it is.

 

[The Anointed]

Your dates appear to be about a thousand years off. The OT is much younger than you think it is.

The OT which is the Roman translation of the Hebrew bible, by Jerome and other authorities of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine in the 4th century of the Christian era, making it about 1,600 years old.

The OT is not any younger than I think, matey.

Why? When do you think the OT was written?
​

 

[Subduction Zone]

The OT which is the Roman translation of the Hebrew bible,

by Jerome and other authorities of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine in the 4th century of the Christian era, making it about 1,600 years old.

The OT is not any younger than I think.

Why? When do you think the OT was written?
​

No, that may have been the OT at one point in time. Now it is based upon the original Hebrew. And modern scholars put the date of Genesis in the sixth century BCE.

 

[blü 2]

blu 2 wrote……[He] wouldn't have needed a name until [he] had a following anyway.

I guess being admitted into the Canaanite pantheon must have been a bit like getting into an exclusive golf club.

Yahweh doesn't occur in history till around 1500 BCE, as you doubtless know.

The Anointed...….. You are absolutely correct, the name JHWH does not occur in history, until the 1500 B.C., when the Lord gave his name to Moses as JHWH.

Thank you for proving that JHWH was never in the Canaanite pantheon, until after the Lord had revealed his name to the Israelites.

Back in those days every tribe had some gods and their politics would sort out which was the chief god. There's no reason to think Yahweh was particularly different in [his] origins to any other god of the Semites of Canaan and Mesopotamia.

Do you think one or more of the Creation, Garden, Babel and Flood stories are literally true? If so, which ones?

 

[The Anointed]

No, that may have been the OT at one point in time. Now it is based upon the original Hebrew. And modern scholars put the date of Genesis in the sixth century BCE.

The one point in time that the OT was translated from the Hebrew Bible, was 1,600 years ago. Please do not confuse the Roman OT with the Hebrew bible.

No, that may have been the OT at one point in time. Now it is based upon the original Hebrew. And modern scholars put the date of Genesis in the sixth century BCE.

Subduction wrote...…. Your dates appear to be about a thousand years off. The OT is much younger than you think it is.

The Anointed...…. The one point in time that the OT was translated from the Hebrew Bible, was 1,600 years ago. Please do not confuse the Roman OT with the Hebrew bible.

Subduction wrote...…. No, that may have been the OT at one point in time. Now it is based upon the original Hebrew. And modern scholars put the date of Genesis in the sixth century BCE

The Anointed...….. You are confusing the Roman OT with the Hebrew bible, and your statement in post #65 was; "Your dates appear to be about a thousand years off. The OT is much younger than you think it is."

Now I think the OT is only 1,600 years old, how old do you think the Roman OT is?

 

[The Anointed]

Back in those days every tribe had some gods and their politics would sort out which was the chief god. There's no reason to think Yahweh was particularly different in [his] origins to any other god of the Semites of Canaan and Mesopotamia.

Do you think one or more of the Creation, Garden, Babel and Flood stories are literally true? If so, which ones?

Semites are the descendants of Shem and not Canaanites, who are the descendants of Canaan the son of Ham, who illegally took possession of the Land allocated to Shem and his descendants.

And according to your own words; "Yahweh doesn't occur in history till around 1500 BCE, as you doubtless know."

Which means that the Lord who first revealed his name, 'JHWH' to Moses in the century of 1500 B.C., was never in the Canaanite pantheon, until after the Lord had revealed his name to the Israelites through the 80 year old Moses.

You asked; "Do you think one or more of the Creation, Garden, Babel and Flood stories are literally true? If so, which ones?"

My answer; All of the above. I believe that the earth and all the planets of our solar system were created before our sun, as revealed in scripture.

I believe that over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred 4,500 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.

 

[blü 2]

You asked; "Do you think one or more of the Creation, Garden, Babel and Flood stories are literally true? If so, which ones?"

My answer; All of the above. I believe that the earth and all the planets of our solar system were created before our sun, as revealed in scripture.

How were they created?

Is God just a superscientist? Or is [he] a magician?

 

[9-18-1]

I like the discussions, some very good observations being made.

In this thread and others you have stated unequivocally that Islam encourages violence against opposing beliefs.

It would be more accurate to say some versions of Islam encourage this.

Please consider the following:

"The question often asked is whether Islam condones and teaches the forced and armed conversion of non-Muslims. This is the image sometimes projected by Western scholars and as any Muslim scholar will tell you, is seriously flawed. The Qur’an clearly states “There is no compulsion in religion, the path of guidance stands out clear from error” [2:256] and [60:8]. In this verse, the word “rushd” or “path of guidance” refers to the entire domain of human life, not just to the rites and theology of Islam"

Jihad: A Misunderstood Concept from Islam - Forced Conversion?

Please don't give me this nonsense - Islam absolutely encourages violence against opposing beliefs. That's actually the entire point of Islam: establish Islam as the only acceptable religion. This is explicit in the Qur'an, and approximately 270 000 000 people are dead as a result of Islamic jihad. It is rooted in the same theocratically-instituted division of "believer" and "unbeliever" as was likewise so prevalent in Christianity when it, too, spread by the sword.

The quote you cited is pure deception and does not even remotely map onto reality: Muhammadans have been persecuting every single other faith system, including ones within itself (ie. Sunni and Shia). While I don't take offense to things, I have no patience for anyone trying to claim Islam does not promote violence. It absolutely does - only a true 'bigot' would fail to see this. Islam hasn't been able to manufacture peace even within itself, let alone anywhere else.

And this is precisely why Islam suffers from the degenerative illness of 'psychological projection': imbuing everyone else as having or being the qualities of themselves. Islam therefor attempts to label people who criticize it as 'bigots' when in reality the Islamophobic Muslims and sympathizers are the ones who are such. We know the Qur'an is forged / man-made, and we know the historical Muhammad was a sexually degenerated war lord that committed mass genocides. It is the bigoted idol worshipers that worship Muhammad and the Qur'an that can't disengage from their own prejudice and look at things without a polarization. Islam is all about polarization: "us" vs. "them". In such a polarization one will expect to find encouragements of violence, which is precisely what Islam does and has done for 1400 years.

Now more generally: a problem I see is people who are mishandling the scriptures. The Hebrew books of Moses are not literal books - they are Hebrew mythology to the same degree Homer's Iliad or Odyssey are. To treat the characters as historical immediately opens the door to idol worship, which is precisely the underlying problem of the entire Abrahamic pantheon. For example the biblical patriarchs that culminate into Moses represents the various internal stages and/or initiations that any being would undergo within themselves. That's the whole point of mythology: it's fictional but has an underlying practical application that relates to the growth/development of the human soul or 'monad'. In the Hebrew mythology, Abraham Isaac and Jacob are the three that comprise the monad which, in kaballah, is chesed geburah and tiphereth (inner-most, divine soul and human soul respectively).

This is why the Ark of Noah story is about building the foundation of which one uses to "climb" the tree of life - the same tree that is planted in the garden that is the tree of life, which is actually within the human body. This is why the 'kingdom of heaven' is within, and not some place without. That *was* the intention of the Hebrew mythologies, but look at how the degeneracy of man over thousands of years has corrupted it - but it is this way for a reason and purpose which transcends good and evil.

So while the idol worshiping Christians and Muslims are going around talking about their Jesus and their Muhammad, the entire basis of their own religions are themselves based on perversions of Hebrew mythologies that seek to establish Man as ruler of all things, instead of Man and Woman in a shared union acting as one: King and Queen, Matriarchy and Patriarchy. Muhammad's "example" is having 11 wives, numerous sex slaves and concubines, waging endless war and spilling blood by day, spilling seed by night, and declaring himself superior to all others. That's about as sick as one can become, and this is precisely what Islam and Muhammadans worship: depraved sexually degeneracy which is precisely what Muhammad represents: subjective reasoning that leads to division. This is exactly eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the wrong way: sexual degeneracy which degenerates the brain. That is the whole mystery of Eden that neither Muhammad nor Muslims understand, because they are (and represent) illiterate people that can't read and understand the mythologies, so they invent their own via subjective reasoning which is derived from sexual degeneracy and degeneracy of the brain. It is all connected in that way.

 

[dybmh]

@9-18-1

I hear what you're saying. But I respectfully disagree.

I do however appreciate the shift towards the use of the label "Muhammadan". It was first introduced by Churchill wasn't it?

 

[blü 2]

Still playing Vaudeville? Why, mr. blu.

Excuse me, I'm going on stage...

Break a leg!

I guess to believe in supernatural beings is to choose to prefer story to fact in the first place.

But if you ever get curious about where the stories come from, the story of Ziasudra / Uta-napishtim / Noah and the flood comes from Sumer and is at least a thousand years older than Yahweh.

The evidence (should you ever change your mind and get curious about facts derived from evidence) is all out there, waiting for the enquirer.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The one point in time that the OT was translated from the Hebrew Bible, was 1,600 years ago. Please do not confuse the Roman OT with the Hebrew bible.

Prove it. When you finally admit that you can't I will provide links on the age of the Bible.

Subduction wrote...…. Your dates appear to be about a thousand years off. The OT is much younger than you think it is.

The Anointed...…. The one point in time that the OT was translated from the Hebrew Bible, was 1,600 years ago. Please do not confuse the Roman OT with the Hebrew bible.

again no. But to ahead and prove it. We know better now.

Subduction wrote...…. No, that may have been the OT at one point in time. Now it is based upon the original Hebrew. And modern scholars put the date of Genesis in the sixth century BCE

The Anointed...….. You are confusing the Roman OT with the Hebrew bible, and your statement in post #65 was; "Your dates appear to be about a thousand years off. The OT is much younger than you think it is."

Now I think the OT is only 1,600 years old, how old do you think the Roman OT is?

No, I am not at all confused. But to ahead, prove your dates with reliable resources and We can discuss it. Apologists are not reliable sources.

 

[The Anointed]

Prove it. When you finally admit that you can't I will provide links on the age of the Bible.



again no. But to ahead and prove it. We know better now.



No, I am not at all confused. But to ahead, prove your dates with reliable resources and We can discuss it. Apologists are not reliable sources.

And the worse source of all as to discovering the biblical truths are the biblical ignorant atheists.

I don't have to prove that the Roman OT was written in the fourth century, and added to the Roman catholic canon, as that is a proven fact. If you deny this truth, then it is up to you to try to prove otherwise.

After Nebuchadnezzar had burnt the Temple of Solomon in 587 B.C., with all its scrolls, the Captive Hebrews in Babylon rewrote their Hebrew scriptures, from Genesis to Malachi.

Hebrew Bible
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Redirected from Tanakh)

Tanakh is an acronym of the first Hebrew letter of each of the Masoretic Text's three traditional subdivisions: Torah ("Teaching", also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ("Prophets") and Ketuvim ("Writings")—hence TaNaKh. The books of the Tanakh were passed on by each generation and, according to rabbinic tradition, were accompanied by an oral tradition, called the Oral Torah.

 

[The Anointed]

How were they created?

Is God just a superscientist? Or is [he] a magician?

They all exist because God, (The eternal energy, that has neither beginning or end) exists. He is the collective consciousness of all that HE, the eternal energy has become. This universe and all herein is the visible manifestation of the invisible mind that is God.

Quantum Physists......Atoms are swirling vortices of energy. - Bing

“Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual” (1) – Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University (quote taken from “the mental universe)

A fundamental conclusion of the new physics also acknowledges that the OBSERVER CREATES THE REALITY. As observers, we are personally involved with the creation of our own reality. Physicists are being forced to admit that the UNIVERSE IS "MENTAL CONSTRUCTION" .

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

 

[blü 2]

They all exist because God, (The eternal energy, that has neither beginning or end) exists. He is the collective consciousness of all that HE, the eternal energy has become.

But how exactly does God cause things to exist?

By physics?

By magic wishes?

Please describe the process. Talk me through God creating, say, the dog.

 

[The Anointed]

But how exactly does God cause things to exist?

By physics?

By magic wishes?

Please describe the process. Talk me through God creating, say, the dog.

God, the collective consciousness of all that He has become, is the “LOGOS,” the essential divine reality of the Universe, the eternal spirit=mind from which all being originates and to which, all must return. The LOGOS is today as it always was, and will be into all eternity. It is the only true constant in that it is constantly evolving. Show to me a mind that has ceased to evolve, and I will reveal to you, a mind that has ceased to exist.

The term, "THE WORD OF GOD," pertains to the sense that is identical to the term “LOGOS” or the mould. The mould by which the whole sense of a thing is given. In other words, the very plan from the outset. In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vach.' Vach means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vach has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.

We humans, may express in our spoken words, all the information that has been gathered through the senses of our bodies in the creation of the invisible minds or spirits that are “WE”. Our word is the expression of “Who we are.” Your words are the expression of the spirit that is “YOU” the mind.

But the “LOGOS=WORD” which is the gathered universal information=spirit of the aeons, express's the information that has been gathered to the universal soul as another universal body, which is in the image and likeness to the previous universe, [The Resurrection] in which the eternal Spirit or mind has and can, continue to evolve.

Just as the space station evolved from the wheel after billions of creations, with each of the creations leading up to the creation of the space station, being an expression of the heights to which the mind of the creator of the Space station had evolved at that point in time, so it is with the creation of the universe.

Who YOU are today has evolved from one of the first life forms to have crawled out of the primordial waters of the earth. YOU are connected to that first life form by a slender genetic thread of life.

You are not what you once were, nor are you who you will be, but today you are, "Who You Are."

I picked up a fossil, and Lord-----what a buzz
To Think------That I held in my hand, 'Who I Once Was.'

 

[blü 2]

LOGOS

None of that answers my question, HOW does God create things.

I ask again: Talk me through how God went about creating the dog.