Was Jesus gay?

[Smoke]

Wrong. It seems remarkably unlikely that he was celibate due to his religious beliefs. In Judaism, it is a shame to be celibate. To be a 33 year old Jewish man and unmarried? Unheard of.

Not in first century Palestine. Celibacy is never going to be the majority choice in any culture, but it certainly was "heard of" in the time and place Jesus lived.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Not in the Essene sects in the first century of the Common Era, who were extremely common at the time. The Essenes practiced celibacy, and clearly were Jewish (though a very different form of Judaism than has survived to present).

Well then.. have we any reason to believe that Jesus was an Essene?

 

[Elessar]

Well then.. have we any reason to believe that Jesus was an Essene?

Well, being a Messianic Jew, I clearly don't believe so - however, from another point of view, many non-Christian and non-Messianist scholars, including some Jewish scholars, hold that he was an Essene, since many of his teachings do match Essene writings which have survived. Non-Christians and non-Messianist scholars have gone sometimes so far as to say that all the original teachings of Yeshua were Essene, and that his teachings as an Essene rabbi were taken by Paul and formed into Christianity, and parts of Essene philosophy which Yeshua taught which were "problematic" or did not agree with Paul's thought were excised by the Pauline Christians.

Caveat emptor: I do not believe this. I am simply being, as it were the "Devil's Advocate", and stating what other, non-Messianist scholars believe. My point in bringing up the Essenes is that celibacy as a religious lifestyle option was not totally alien to Judaism in the time of Yeshua.

 

[McBell]

Well then.. have we any reason to believe that Jesus was an Essene?

Um...
Just a stab in the dark here....

Cause he was celibate?

:run:

 

[Comicaze247]

I agree. One notices this especially among Christians.

Grr, I want to frubal you for this, but I've frubal'd you too recently, lol

 

[Caladan]

Not in the Essene sects in the first century of the Common Era, who were extremely common at the time. The Essenes practiced celibacy, and clearly were Jewish (though a very different form of Judaism than has survived to present).

Actually contrary to popular belief, the Essenes had different groups, some of which celibate, while the others were not. many of the popular beliefs about the Essenes are worth deeper examination of a more researched information. many myths about them will be shattered.

 

[Caladan]

BTW, there is no definite historical information about a John the baptist being an Essene let alone Jesus.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Um...
Just a stab in the dark here....

Cause he was celibate?

:run:

You are too funny.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Well, being a Messianic Jew, I clearly don't believe so - however, from another point of view, many non-Christian and non-Messianist scholars, including some Jewish scholars, hold that he was an Essene, since many of his teachings do match Essene writings which have survived. Non-Christians and non-Messianist scholars have gone sometimes so far as to say that all the original teachings of Yeshua were Essene, and that his teachings as an Essene rabbi were taken by Paul and formed into Christianity, and parts of Essene philosophy which Yeshua taught which were "problematic" or did not agree with Paul's thought were excised by the Pauline Christians.

Caveat emptor: I do not believe this. I am simply being, as it were the "Devil's Advocate", and stating what other, non-Messianist scholars believe. My point in bringing up the Essenes is that celibacy as a religious lifestyle option was not totally alien to Judaism in the time of Yeshua.

Doesn't that screw around with a popular notion that Jesus was a pharisee?

I know Christians spend a lot of time trying to convince people that Paul was a pharisee... I doubt very highly that he would have been responsible for spreading Essene teachings... unless the "new testament" writings proclaiming Paul to have been a pharisee taught at the feet of Gamaliel were part of the coverup sponsored by Pauline Christians...

 

[Smoke]

Doesn't that screw around with a popular notion that Jesus was a pharisee?

That's not really a very popular notion; that is, most Christians think of Jesus as opposed to the Pharisees. It does have some currency among scholars, though.

I know Christians spend a lot of time trying to convince people that Paul was a pharisee... I doubt very highly that he would have been responsible for spreading Essene teachings... unless the "new testament" writings proclaiming Paul to have been a pharisee taught at the feet of Gamaliel were part of the coverup sponsored by Pauline Christians...

I doubt that Paul was really a Pharisee. I'm not entirely convinced that Paul was really even Jewish. But I think that fraud -- it that's what it is -- is Paul's and not that of later editors.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I doubt that Paul was really a Pharisee.

Me too.

I'm not entirely convinced that Paul was really even Jewish.

Me too.

But I think that fraud -- it that's what it is -- is Paul's and not that of later editors.

It is indeed a fraud... yet you won't find so many Christians willing to admit as much about their own scriptures.

Regarding Paul...
Acts 22:3 (American Standard Version)


3 I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, at the feet of Gamaliel, instructed according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God, even as ye all are this day:

 

[Elessar]

Doesn't that screw around with a popular notion that Jesus was a pharisee?

I know Christians spend a lot of time trying to convince people that Paul was a pharisee... I doubt very highly that he would have been responsible for spreading Essene teachings... unless the "new testament" writings proclaiming Paul to have been a pharisee taught at the feet of Gamaliel were part of the coverup sponsored by Pauline Christians...

No reputable source will state that Yeshua was a parush, or pharisee. No part of the Messianic Writings claim such, and there is no other evidence to suggest such.

There are sources, including Rav Shaul himself, who states that Rav Shaul (or St. Paul) was a pharisee, and you can accept or reject that as you wish. I, myself, accept it, but with a grain of salt - he may be a pharisee, but he is clearly a very hellenized one.

 

[VEW]

No, it's not.

Sorry Penguin, I have to disagree with you....

Rom. 1:24-27Which was completed by Paul in 56CE. only about 23 years after Jesus death) Too keep in mind that Jesus Mother and Brothers were still alive at this time.) says" "God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them . . . God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error."

1 Tim. 1:9-11: (also completed by the apostle Paul in 61-64 CE says: "Law is promulgated, not for a righteous man, but for persons lawless and unruly, ungodly and sinners, . . . fornicators, men who lie with males, . . . and whatever other thing is in opposition to the healthful teaching according to the glorious good news of the happy God." (Compare Leviticus 20:13.)

Then we have Judes writings completed in 65 CE. (Jude was Jesus brother) Jude 7:says: "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire." (The name Sodom has become the basis for the word "sodomy," which usually designates a homosexual practice. Compare Genesis 19:4, 5, 24, 25.).........VEW​

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry Penguin, I have to disagree with you....

Funny... I could've sworn you originally said "Jesus", not "Paul" or "Jude".

 

[Smoke]

Funny... I could've sworn you originally said "Jesus", not "Paul" or "Jude".

Same difference -- Our Lord Jesus Christ, Our Lord Paul Christ, Our Lord Jude Christ ...

Not to mention that Jude is almost certainly a pseudonym, and that in the context of the letter the author is clearly talking about relations between humans and angels.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Not to mention that Jude is almost certainly a pseudonym, and that in the context of the letter the author is clearly talking about relations between humans and angels.

Here's the thing about the Sodom and Gomorrah story, or at least how it's traditionally interpreted, that's always bugged me: it describes the attempted male-on-male* gang rape of angels who were guests in the city, but when people talk about the "sin" of the people there, it's assumed that the "sin" involved wasn't the freakin' gang rape aspect of the incident or even (usually) the gross inhospitality shown towards guests; no, supposedly, the sin lies completely in the male-on-male aspect of what happened. Personally, I think that's a fundamentally messed up viewpoint.



*Actually, do angels even have genders?

 

[Spiritone]

Mostly Sodom is known as a place where sodomy was practiced a lot and it angered God so He destroyed it for that reason.
I think that that "story" is an instance of a moral teaching just as the wife who looked back got her comeupance for still considering that way of life as desirable.
To me Job and other stories were used as ways of teaching the people of that time even if they took it literally. Some today take it literally and to me that's missing the point.

 

[Spiritone]

To address the OP. Was Jesus gay?
For serious seekers of Biblical times teachings I would recommend the Gnostic Gospels where Jesus is said to have said, "Male must become female and female must become male." But there are some strange "to us" beliefs in there. Also in there, it speaks of Jesus kissing Mary of Magdela on the mouth.
By the way she was not a prostitute as has been portrayed. That's just what is in there. An alternative to the Roman version of Jesus. IMO.

 

[jacobweymouth]

VEW:

Why do you even bother? Those who don't believe the Bible can't be existed by using the Bible.

I will say this:

Paul was Jewish
he was a Sadducee.

 

[VEW]

Of course Jesus was Gay! Jesus was God, wasn't he? How could a god be limited to just one gender or sexual orientation? Anything so limited could not possibly be a god. Therefore, Jesus must have been Gay, just like he must have been Bi, and just like he must have been Straight. He must have been all those things.

No, Jesus was not God...He was God's son. Never does the Bible say that Jesus was the God. He is referred to as a god, but so are the pagan gods and some powerful men. VEW