Was Jesus abused by his father?

[rrobs]

Way to miss the point there.

What is your point? Don't just call someone on something without an explanation of why they were wrong.

In case you really wanted to know, I'll offer this for you:

Luke 1:38,

And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
​

Sounds consensual to me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How do you rape a woman and leave her a virgin?

Maybe be best to put it into some sort of perspective.

Suppose I snuck up on some girl about to be married who's a virgin that I want her to get pregnant with my child, but I didn't want to break the hymen because I'm moral and righteous because her husband-to-be is a friend of mine.

So I just went ahead and injected my sperm in her while she wasn't aware and then later sent my friend down to tell her that she was pregnant cuz I just like her.

But that's all good though because I hymen wasn't broken, so it's not considered rape.

Oo ...

 

[rrobs]

Kind of puts an estranged definition to rape.

Just picture the angel coming up to Mary and saying, "Yeah gal , the guy that sent me had an eye for you, just got you pregnant while you were unaware, I hope you and your fiance don't mind".

Any idea how she replied? In case you don't, here it is:

Luke 1:38,

And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
​

Read the context and it will be clear Mary said this before she was impregnated. Notice all the future tenses in verse 35. It's a far cry from your made up version of the conversation.

Still sounds like rape to you?

 

[rrobs]

Maybe be best to put it into some sort of perspective.

Suppose I snuck up on some girl about to be married who's a virgin that I want her to get pregnant with my child, but I didn't want to break the hymen because I'm moral and righteous because her husband-to-be is a friend of mine.

So I just went ahead and injected my sperm in her while she wasn't aware and then later sent my friend down to tell her that she was pregnant cuz I just like her.

But that's all good though because I hymen wasn't broken, so it's not considered rape.

Oo ...

Where does it say Mary was unaware?

 

[Twilight Hue]

What is your point? Don't just call someone on something without an explanation of why they were wrong.

In case you really wanted to know, I'll offer this for you:

Luke 1:38,

And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
​

Sounds consensual to me.

Now was this before or after the rape occurred.

it's usually good protocol and of course considerably more polite to ask a person before you inject her with your sperm and not tell her about it after the dirty deed was done.

 

[epronovost]

Any idea how she replied? In case you don't, here it is:

Luke 1:38,

And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
​

Read the context and it will be clear Mary said this before she was impregnated. Notice all the future tenses in verse 35. It's a far cry from your made up version of the conversation.

Still sounds like rape to you?

If what you say is correct, then yes, it isn't rape that's clearly consenting... it's just adultery, but Joseph, as per tradition, was allowed to forgive his wife's transgression so all is good.

 

[rrobs]

No, my mother wanted to have sex with my father and have a child with him. How about you?

Actually it doesn't matter what my parents or your parents did. The fact is this guy has no idea what he is talking about.

I take your word for it that your mother and father had consensual sex. Would you take God's word for what He says?

Luke 1:35 & 38,

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
......
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.​

So it looks like Mary was fully informed about what shall (that's future tense) be before giving full consent. If I trust your word, I trust God's word a zillion times more. Matter settled!

 

[Twilight Hue]

Where does it say Mary was unaware?

So I guess she was dating the big guy before Joseph huh?

"Just between you and me big boy"! , Said Mary with a coy look. "Just don't tell Joseph my husband-to-be"

"I'll send someone later." Wink wink....

 

[rrobs]

Now was this before or after the rape occurred.

it's usually good protocol and of course considerably more polite to ask a person before you inject her with your sperm and not tell her about it after the dirty deed was done.

Please re-quote the 2 verses I gave you and explain to me how they say Mary was impregnated before giving her consent. It's pretty much 8th grade reading level.

 

[Quiddity]

Would that make it necessarily not abuse?

Say a father is about to beat his child and the child's older sibling steps in to give the child a chance to get away, knowing that he'll get beaten instead.

In that case, the older sibling acted voluntarily, but the father was still abusive.

I think this is a fair analogy for the Gospel story.

It would be a fair analogy, if.....both father and older son happen to be a Triune God.

.....and......allowing vs committing were the same exact thing.

 

[rrobs]

So I guess she was dating the big guy before Joseph huh?

"Just between you and me big boy"! , Said Mary with a coy look. "Just don't tell Joseph my husband-to-be"

"I'll send someone later." Wink wink....

Where are you getting your ideas?

Luke 1:35 & 38,

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
.......
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.​

Do you not understand verb tenses? "Shall" means the future. Mary was fully informed before giving consent.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Where are you getting your ideas?

Luke 1:35 & 38,

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
.......
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.​

Do you not understand verb tenses? "Shall" means the future. Mary was fully informed before giving consent.

Is it consent when she was commanded to do it?

Starting at Luke 29 what you're avoiding to post like the plague here.

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.

Read all the way down to

Luke 1:31

 

[rrobs]

If what you say is correct, then yes, it isn't rape that's clearly consenting... it's just adultery, but Joseph, as per tradition, was allowed to forgive his wife's transgression so all is good.

OK, so God committed adultery in your world. Why do you bother with the scriptures if that is your conclusion? Maybe find something else on which to spend your time. Just suggesting.

 

[Kenny]

That's kind of a strange thing to say.

Who ever heard of a special mission for saving people

That's got to be the worst special forces team I've ever heard of.

(Quote adjusted to reflect the real question and not move the goal post

The Top 10 Most Inspiring Self-Sacrifices

 

[Twilight Hue]

.....

Do you not understand verb tenses? "Shall" means the future. Mary was fully informed before giving consent.

It doesn't look like fully informed before giving her consent.

It sounds like she was commanded to submit and she complied with what she was commanded to do.

Do you understand the difference between consent and submission because it certainly doesn't look like any consent to me.

Imagine being in a position of power and then going to a woman you have your eyes on and telling her she shall (shalt) have your baby.

If it was consent why would Mary word it like this......

Luke 1:38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

It's not consent, its submission to authority.

She had her consensual eyes on Joseph, clearly not God who for all indications is considered as one to be obeyed. It's not like she was offered a choice. It actually makes me wonder in the story if she had said no. What would happen to her?

 

[rrobs]

Is it consent when she was commanded to do it?

Starting at Luke 29 what you're avoiding to post like the plague here.

29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.

Luke 1:30

So you are saying the Mary was troubled by words that came later in the conversation? That'd be a good trick.

I could say you are avoiding John 3:16 like the plague, but what would that really mean? Nothing! I have no idea what you think of John 3:16, no more than you know what I think about Luke 1:29. If you want to know what I think about a verse, ask. Don't just say something about others of which you have no idea whatsoever.

In general, what do you hope to accomplish by trashing someone else's belief? Do you think I'm just going to say, "Oh yeah, NowhereMan is right. How silly of me to believe God's word." How ironic that one of the major complaints against Christians is that they are dogmatic. Hypocrisy to the nth degree!

 

[rrobs]

It doesn't look like fully informed before giving her consent.

It sounds like she was commanded to submit and she complied with what she was commanded to do.

Do you understand the difference between consent and submission because it certainly doesn't look like any consent to me.

Imagine being in a position of power and then going to a woman you have your eyes on and telling her she shall (shalt) have your baby.

If it was consent why would Mary word it like this......

Luke 1:38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

It's not consent, its submission to authority.

Sounds like you should write a new, improved version of the scriptures.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Please re-quote the 2 verses I gave you and explain to me how they say Mary was impregnated before giving her consent. It's pretty much 8th grade reading level.

Well then I must be in the 9th grade now because you don't seem to understand the difference between consent and submission.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What is your point? Don't just call someone on something without an explanation of why they were wrong.

In case you really wanted to know, I'll offer this for you:

Luke 1:38,

And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
​

Sounds consensual to me.

FYI: I posted a link to a whole other thread on that topic. You're welcome to use that if you want to discuss it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It would be a fair analogy, if.....both father and older son happen to be a Triune God.

.....and......allowing vs committing were the same exact thing.

Depending on how one views the Trinity, if we argue that Jesus's sacrifice is also somehow God the Father's sacrifice, then we get into "I hurt myself to show my love for you" territory. Masochism instead of sadism.

Probably less abusive, but still not exactly praiseworthy.