War on Columbus' statues

[Estro Felino]

https://hiplatina.com/christopher-columbus-statue-removed/

Ok...I can understand they're offensive towards Native Americans...but why did you Americans erect them in the first place?

 

[Augustus]

Retrospectively evaluating historical figures via comparison to 21st C progressive ideology is one of my least favourite trends.

Especially as they never seem to care very much about whether the 'victim' culture conformed to 21st C progressive ideology or engaged in similar behaviours to the paragon of evil who need replacing.

I wonder if they advocate 'oppressed' cultures also rejecting the 'problematic' figures from their own history? I'm sure they are perfectly consistent in that regard...

 

[wellwisher]

https://hiplatina.com/christopher-columbus-statue-removed/

Ok...I can understand they're offensive towards Native Americans...but why did you Americans erect them in the first place?

This is all about revisionist history. America is the top culture of the modern era. These statues are there celebrate the birth of a new era. It had a rough start, but it leveled out and then started to rise. The World Wars brought out the best and change the role of America in the new era.

If you know anything about the history of Columbus, he was originally seeking a new trade route to India. He, among others, believed that the world was round and not flat. So he assumed if you sailed due west, one could sail around the world, and reach India from the other side.

Columbus symbolizes the Original American pioneer spirit. He symbolized someone who would take a calculated risk, to follow his vision and dreams, even if the consensus had it backwards and resisted the changed needed; old world ways. The goal of removing the statue, by the left, is to regress culture backwards were big consensus forces conformity, and takes away the pioneer spirit with over regulations. They are over regulating art through censor and violation of freedom of speech. This is the old way.

Those who wish to revise American history, appear to be overlooking the fact that a woman, called Queen Isabella of Spain, made all the woes of the Native Americans possible, by financing Columbus. Columbus would have been stopped in his tracks without Isabella. She was his last hope. Isabella was an Hispanic woman. Behind every great man was a woman. The woman behind all this strategy for the Indians is allowed to escape the same scrutiny as the pioneer Columbus. Below is a statue of Isabella and Columbus that is on display in the Capital Building at Sacramento California. Talk about two faced history revision, located at hypocrisy central. I think it is a nice world of art, which is how sane people see it.

If we are going to punish the past, by the PC standards of the present, why is there still a thing called the Democrat party. The Democrat party was the party of slavery. It was the party of Jim Crow laws, segregation, KKK, etc. It was the party that tried to divide America, in a Civil war, which they now also try to do.

The Nazis, when they rose to power, based their legal strategy for making the Jews second class citizens, on the legal foundation created by the Democrats against the blacks. The Democrats taught the Nazi how to discriminate, by the legal book. The Democrat party even received an honor from Hitler. personally delivered by his propaganda minister. We still have a Nazi party, but it has no real power due to it shady past and its evil use of power. Why is the evil Democrat party; based on judging the past by the present, still have so much power? This is where PC needs to focus its attention.

Why are we not getting rid of this evil memory called the Democrat party? Its shady past means it should not have power, any more than we would want the Nazis to be a major political force, who can control government. They use the same tools. If we are going to punish the past using the standards of the present, why the hypocrisy?

The same two faced party is in charge of this new wave of hypocrisy. What is called white guilt is a revisionist history way of disguising white Democrat guilt. That was 95% of the problem during the darkest times. We need to tare the blame rather that fall for a Democrat scam. The White Republicans, like Lincoln were always against the under handed ways of the Democrats. The name Democrat needs to be purged from culture, until it becomes a museum party like the modern Nazis. The Young Democrats should think of a new name to make a split from that evil past. Nothing else has to change, except that name needs to go down in infamy. When the name is said it should give the same gut reflex as Nazi. This is the price of justice.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is all about revisionist history. America is the top culture of the modern era. These statues are there celebrate the birth of a new era. It had a rough start, but it leveled out and then started to rise. The World Wars brought out the best and change the role of America in the new era.

If you know anything about the history of Columbus, he was originally seeking a new trade route to India. He, among others, believed that the world was round and not flat. So he assumed if you sailed due west, one could sail around the world, and reach India from the other side.

Columbus symbolizes the Original American pioneer spirit. He symbolized someone who would take a calculated risk, to follow his vision and dreams, even if the consensus had it backwards and resisted the changed needed; old world ways. The goal of removing the statue, by the left, is to regress culture backwards were big consensus forces conformity, and takes away the pioneer spirit with over regulations. They are over regulating art through censor and violation of freedom of speech. This is the old way.

Those who wish to revise American history, appear to be overlooking the fact that a woman, called Queen Isabella of Spain, made all the woes of the Native Americans possible, by financing Columbus. Columbus would have been stopped in his tracks without Isabella. She was his last hope. Isabella was an Hispanic woman. Behind every great man was a woman. The woman behind all this strategy for the Indians is allowed to escape the same scrutiny as the pioneer Columbus. Below is a statue of Isabella and Columbus that is on display in the Capital Building at Sacramento California. Talk about two faced history revision, located at hypocrisy central. I think it is a nice world of art, which is how sane people see it.

If we are going to punish the past, by the PC standards of the present, why is there still a thing called the Democrat party. The Democrat party was the party of slavery. It was the party of Jim Crow laws, segregation, KKK, etc. It was the party that tried to divide America, in a Civil war, which they now also try to do.

The Nazis, when they rose to power, based their legal strategy for making the Jews second class citizens, on the legal foundation created by the Democrats against the blacks. The Democrats taught the Nazi how to discriminate, by the legal book. The Democrat party even received an honor from Hitler. personally delivered by his propaganda minister. We still have a Nazi party, but it has no real power due to it shady past and its evil use of power. Why is the evil Democrat party; based on judging the past by the present, still have so much power? This is where PC needs to focus its attention.

Why are we not getting rid of this evil memory called the Democrat party? Its shady past means it should not have power, any more than we would want the Nazis to be a major political force, who can control government. They use the same tools. If we are going to punish the past using the standards of the present, why the hypocrisy?

The same two faced party is in charge of this new wave of hypocrisy. What is called white guilt is a revisionist history way of disguising white Democrat guilt. That was 95% of the problem during the darkest times. We need to tare the blame rather that fall for a Democrat scam. The White Republicans, like Lincoln were always against the under handed ways of the Democrats. The name Democrat needs to be purged from culture, until it becomes a museum party like the modern Nazis. The Young Democrats should think of a new name to make a split from that evil past. Nothing else has to change, except that name needs to go down in infamy. When the name is said it should give the same gut reflex as Nazi. This is the price of justice.

Democrats will tell you they were Dixiecrats who are basically today's Republicans.

The only problem I see with that is, Democrats, when it comes to the Jim Crow era was notably after this transition of "Democrat to Republican" supposedly occurred. I don't have to tell anybody who Democrats supported in those days. It just takes one look into the Library of Congress to find the answer.

Yet even after saying all that, they still willingly and knowingly kept the racist and bigoted Democrat name and then go on ahead and vilify the Confederate flag without ever looking or thinking about their own name they carried along with all the associations that come with it.

For one reason or another, the word Democrat seems to be sanitized to them.

 

[Stevicus]

https://hiplatina.com/christopher-columbus-statue-removed/

Ok...I can understand they're offensive towards Native Americans...but why did you Americans erect them in the first place?

At one time, Columbus was revered as a great hero. That's what many of us were taught as kids, but at some point (around 1990, as I recall), that all started to shift to Columbus being portrayed as an evil guy. Of course, a lot of it started in the 1960s, when a lot of icons and ideals related to American history were being challenged, but why they waited so long to establish the PC narrative which is more common nowadays - that's a mystery.

It seems to coincide with the same time that former hippies, 60s activists, and other liberals sold out to the establishment, when they abandoned the higher-minded principles of "peace," "love," "justice," and "freedom" in exchange for empty symbolic gestures which characterize political correctness nowadays. It doesn't matter anymore if the rich get richer and the poor continue to live in squalor and destitution, just as long as no one is "offended."

 

[Revoltingest]

One problem is that @columbus is just too pretty.
He makes the rest of us feel inadequate.
And his haughty attitude doesn't help.

And this is despite the fact that his massive genitals have been suppressed in the statues.

 

[Augustus]

He, among others, believed that the world was round and not flat.

He, among almost everybody else in his culture for the past 2000 years, believed the world was round and not flat...

 

[Shiranui117]

Retrospectively evaluating historical figures via comparison to 21st C progressive ideology is one of my least favourite trends.

Especially as they never seem to care very much about whether the 'victim' culture conformed to 21st C progressive ideology or engaged in similar behaviours to the paragon of evil who need replacing.

I wonder if they advocate 'oppressed' cultures also rejecting the 'problematic' figures from their own history? I'm sure they are perfectly consistent in that regard...

As one who was supposedly a Christian, Columbus lived up to exactly no part of that, and in fact violated almost every precept of Christ's. At least most other Christian rulers had some kind of redeeming quality. Columbus found the New World, great, but then proceeded to genocide most of the populations he encountered that survived the initial wave of diseases.

While 21st-century morals may not apply to Christians from the late 1500's, Christian morals most certainly do apply. The few Catholic priests working with the Native Americans strongly protested Columbus' enslavement and harsh treatment of the native populations. Even by Columbus' own moral standards in his time, his actions were unconscionable.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As a thought-exercise, is there anyone here who would erect a statue to Columbus today?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Columbus was a garbage human being. I'd rather celebrate the Norse who came here 500 years before the Christians. They may have bickered with the natives but didn't kill them off. I don't celebrate Columbus Day, either. He never stepped foot on the continent so I don't see why Americans care so much about him, either. At least the Norse settlements were in North America.

Ironically, the city I live in is named after him and there's a big ugly statue of him in front of City Hall that was given to us by the people of Genoa (our sister city) as a gift. Oh, well.

I prefer listening to this song on Columbus Day:

 

[Estro Felino]

As one who was supposedly a Christian, Columbus lived up to exactly no part of that, and in fact violated almost every precept of Christ's. At least most other Christian rulers had some kind of redeeming quality. Columbus found the New World, great, but then proceeded to genocide most of the populations he encountered that survived the initial wave of diseases.

While 21st-century morals may not apply to Christians from the late 1500's, Christian morals most certainly do apply. The few Catholic priests working with the Native Americans strongly protested Columbus' enslavement and harsh treatment of the native populations. Even by Columbus' own moral standards in his time, his actions were unconscionable.

I understand but the colonization of America was traumatic, even in 1620; even the Pilgrim Fathers were not so nice to Native Americans...

 

[Augustus]

While 21st-century morals may not apply to Christians from the late 1500's, Christian morals most certainly do apply. The few Catholic priests working with the Native Americans strongly protested Columbus' enslavement and harsh treatment of the native populations. Even by Columbus' own moral standards in his time, his actions were unconscionable.

While you can make a point about normative Christian ethics, by the moral standards of his time, the actions were pretty normal.

There are very few powerful people of historical significance in any culture who were not involved in something which would be considered unconscionable today. To be consistent we'd have to remove most statues around the world and rename half of the places and streets too.

As a thought-exercise, is there anyone here who would erect a statue to Columbus today?

I assume that there are enough of them to make building a new one somewhat redundant. In light of this would be better to devote new resources to additional figures who expand people's perceptions of history. Could build a monument to Native Americans to provide context.

Were there no statues, then I wouldn't see it as problematic.

 

[Revoltingest]

Could build a monument to Native Americans to provide context.

We'd have to find one or a group who are without sin.
Or construct a mythology wherein they're sinless.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

We'd have to find one or a group who are without sin.
Or construct a mythology wherein they're sinless.

Sinless? That seems like a most extreme description of anyone's position.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sinless? That seems like a most extreme description of anyone's position.

It's so easy to attack an historical figure for any perceived flaw which would
crop up in changing sensitivities over the centuries. Anyone whose statue
would endure numerous such trials would have to be so pure as to make
Caesar's wife look like a strumpet.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's so easy to attack an historical figure for any perceived flaw which would
crop up in changing sensitivities over the centuries. Anyone whose statue
would endure numerous such trials would have to be so pure as to make
Caesar's wife look like a strumpet.

Which has nothing to do with Columbus in particular.

 

[Revoltingest]

Which has nothing to do with Columbus in particular.

Au contraire, bruderherz!
Columbus cut a fine figure as a statue for centuries. But then people
became sensitive to Amerindian claims that his visit was the downfall
of their reigning over our fair continent & environs. What was once
celebrated courageous exploration had suddenly become heinously
sinful.
This illustrates how any historical figure can lose luster in unforeseen
ways, eg, Thomas Jefferson's slave owning & miscegenation. Who
knows what might happen centuries into the future....tearing down
Lincoln's statues because he was a meat eater, or MLK's statues
because he was unfaithful & promiscuous?

 

[Milton Platt]

https://hiplatina.com/christopher-columbus-statue-removed/

Ok...I can understand they're offensive towards Native Americans...but why did you Americans erect them in the first place?

Columbus was was taught in schools as viewed through rose-colored glasses, as was pretty much all of colonialism and U.S. history. The existence of the U.S. is a result of European colonialism that will never be undone.