Violence in the Bible

[mr.guy]

Obviously, I consider this some combination of cherry-picking and revisionism. I'm happy to discuss it or agree to disagree on your personal choice.

I wonder, jerry why you would want to agree/disagree with a "personal choice" on interprative religion. I have to ask, what exactly is wrong with cherry-picking and revisionism? I wonder how you intend to critisize a take on scripture/gospel, if it is admittedly altered; do you see that as a problem?

 

[JerryL]

I have to ask, what exactly is wrong with cherry-picking and revisionism?

Really? Interesting.

I suppose my reaction depends a great deal on whether the person has said "I've picked out some bits I like" or whether they say "this book is true and from God and I follow it", and then proceed to cherry-pick.

As I said, the bur up my butt is usually over intellectual honesty.

I wonder how you intend to critisize a take on scripture/gospel, if it is admittedly altered; do you see that as a problem?

I work from what's there. I can have a discussion on the validity of scripture to begin with if you prefer.

 

[michel]

[/i]Really? Interesting.

I suppose my reaction depends a great deal on whether the person has said "I've picked out some bits I like" or whether they say "this book is true and from God and I follow it", and then proceed to cherry-pick.

As I said, the bur up my butt is usually over intellectual honesty.

I work from what's there. I can have a discussion on the validity of scripture to begin with if you prefer.

'Intellectual honesty' - wow.

intellect 1 a : the power of knowing as distinguished from the power to feel and to will : the capacity for knowledge b : the capacity for rational or intelligent thought especially when highly developed

the capacity for knowledge

Well (and this is not an excuse - it is a reason), I have very little intellect - as in the capacity for knowledge.

I suffer fro Chronic depression and other physical ailments. Effectively, that means that there is little room in my brain left for short term (or indeed long term memory); there is also what is, unfortunately a minimal concentration span.

If you are interested, I have had it explained thus:- The mind is comparable to a computer. When one suffers fro depression and pain, a large amount of RAM is being used for background tasks ( anxiety, pain management, attempts at concentration), which means effectively, that I can read very little of anything without feeling overwhelmed.

OK that is capacity of knowledge dispensed with.

the capacity for rational or intelligent thought

he he, I can't be the judge of that; that judgement can only be made by an outsider - perhaps you, Jerry. I have a low I.Q.

I'm happy to discuss it or agree to disagree on your personal choice

*puts on an upper class English accent*

I say, young man, I think that is spiffingly sporty of you under the circumstances. Your opinion on how I should view my relationship with my Deity is of such momentous import to me......................

 

[AtheistAJ]

If god's own book can't make peace on Earth for the hell of it , after being changed and retranslated a hundred times so as to leave out the most gruesome of verses and change as many "hate" words into "love", and all Jesus (the son of god) brought to humanity was a sword and hatred towards everyone except him, and Christians keep choosing what parts of the Bible they want to skip and which to read, then why don't they just buy another book of philosophy? There are thousands, and most don't teach that "women can't speak or teach" and that if you don't love someone you never saw before more than family you will fry in hell. Afterlife is supposed to be eternal, but Bible says of a fate in hell where some people suffer a "death after death", that is self-contradicting.
If most people who call themselves Christians saw their book's true message, they would realize that unless they don't "love" their lord more than family and give away everything, cut off parts of body with which they have sinned so that they might enter heaven and ask to be beaten to death, he will not save them because they are not worthy of him? Didn't Jesus also say people should "Lock themselves in a closed to worship thy lord"? Why do most Christians leave out those words to pray to him in up to "thousand man churches", and want to make it so that children are obligated to pray in schools?
Only those who don't wear clothes of different fabrics or eat shell-fish, while respecting all of the above mentioned rules will get to go to a heaven if there is one. If you're going to give firm support to one religion while bending it to your will, make your own like Jesus did.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... after being changed and retranslated a hundred times so as to leave out the most gruesome of verses and change as many "hate" words into "love", ...

That's interesting. Back it up.

 

[Scott1]

I do. Thank you. (You have to admit, it is a little confusing for an outsider; it seems like there are a hundred different views on the subject).

You are welcome.... that's why the Petrine office (the Papacy) is very important to us... the teaching authority of the Church prevents confusion.

 

[Darkdale]

You are welcome.... that's why the Petrine office (the Papacy) is very important to us... the teaching authority of the Church prevents confusion.

Well... us heathens tend to avoid these kinds of beliefs all together. Our way of keeping it simple. No scripture. No dogmatic law. You either buy into the worldview, or you don't. It does seem like the Catholics are one of the more organized religious groups out there. Should give them some lasting power.

 

[Quiddity]

Well... us heathens tend to avoid these kinds of beliefs all together. Our way of keeping it simple. No scripture. No dogmatic law. You either buy into the worldview, or you don't. It does seem like the Catholics are one of the more organized religious groups out there. Should give them some lasting power.

I would attribute it to more then just their organizational skills....:bounce

~Victor

 

[Darkdale]

I would attribute it to more then just their organizational skills....:bounce

~Victor

lol of course your would. I might attribute it to its' being very well financed.

 

[Deut 13:1]

You see, according to our fundamentalist friend here, stoning homosexuals is perfectly OK in principle. It's the technicalities that cause the problem.

Your point? Or do you just like providing useless comments.

 

[Quiddity]

lol of course your would. I might attribute it to its' being very well financed.

LOL...of course you would. But even if true, it doesn't really matter considering all it's gone thru, it would of gone bankrupt long ago.

~Victor

 

[Deut 13:1]

I don't follow the OT, but I do the new testament. I believe Christ gave us a 'revised' set of rules - which is why we are "Christ"ians.

G-d revealed himself to people on Mount Sinai and allowed us a relationship with Him. Now, considering the fact that man is nothing, and G-d is everything -- whose terms is it more likely that relationship should be on? G-d's? Or man's?

G-d's terms, miche and G-d gave us those terms via His commandments. And He said, if you love Me, do them. If love Me, then express your love on My terms. Because I am G-d, and you are NOT. This is the essence of Judaism. Having a relationship with G-d on HIS terms.

Well, later on comes Christianity.//sarcasm// You know, G-d, those terms that you gave us for the relationship, we don't need them any more. Sure, we love you very much. But not on your terms. On OUR terms. What are our terms? Well, we lllooooooooooooove you very much. We ignore most of the terms on which you established a relationship with us, but we still loooove you.

Which makes more sense? To me, unquestionably, the first one. If one wants to relate to the infinite Creator, then it must be done on His terms. And His terms are outlined in the Torah, which Christianity wholeheartedly ignores.

 

[Scott1]

Well, later on comes Christianity.//sarcasm// You know, G-d, those terms that you gave us for the relationship, we don't need them any more. Sure, we love you very much. But not on your terms. On OUR terms. What are our terms? Well, we lllooooooooooooove you very much. We ignore most of the terms on which you established a relationship with us, but we still loooove you.

Sarcasm aside... I hope you are educated enough to understand how false this is. If a person believes Jesus Christ to be the divine Son of God, adherance to the New Law established by Christ and the Church is submission to God, not "OUR terms".

To say that you don't believe Jesus to be the Son of God is one thing... but to paint Christians as ignoring God's "terms" seems a bit harsh.

I love God above all else.... if this is less important to you than the fact I eat un-kosher foods, than I feel sorry for you.

Vivat Jesus!
Scott

 

[Deut 13:1]

Sarcasm aside... I hope you are educated enough to understand how false this is. If a person believes Jesus Christ to be the divine Son of God, adherance to the New Law established by Christ and the Church is submission to God, not "OUR terms".

To say that you don't believe Jesus to be the Son of God is one thing... but to paint Christians as ignoring God's "terms" seems a bit harsh.

I love God above all else.... if this is less important to you than the fact I eat un-kosher foods, than I feel sorry for you.

Vivat Jesus!
Scott

Read Duet 13: 1-6

You're saying Jesus changed the terms? Okay, fine, false prophet.

 

[JerryL]

'Intellectual honesty' - wow.

Bereft of the rest of that part of my post, this has no meaning.

I do believe saying that you follow the Bible, and then following some parts and not others is dishonest. (I'm not, in this post, claiming that to be your claim)

I say, young man, I think that is spiffingly sporty of you under the circumstances. Your opinion on how I should view my relationship with my Deity is of such momentous import to me

Is it as important to you as whether it's important to you is important to me?

 

[Scott1]

Read Duet 13: 1-6

Again... I can understand if you don't agree... but it is really so hard a concept?

Deut 13:1 "Every command that I enjoin on you, you shall be careful to observe, neither adding to it nor subtracting from it."

We believe Jesus to be God... (remember the whole "Trinity" thing... I'm sure you've heard of it).... and so Christians observe the commands of Jesus....

.... or do you honestly believe that Divine revelation ended with verse 6 of the Book of Deuteronomy?

 

[Deut 13:1]

Again... I can understand if you don't agree... but it is really so hard a concept?

Deut 13:1 "Every command that I enjoin on you, you shall be careful to observe, neither adding to it nor subtracting from it."

We believe Jesus to be God... (remember the whole "Trinity" thing... I'm sure you've heard of it).... and so Christians observe the commands of Jesus....

Okay, so why would G-d say to do X and if anyone tells you to do ANYTHING but X, they are a liar, then why would G-d come and say to do Y.

 

[Scott1]

Okay, so why would G-d say to do X and if anyone tells you to do ANYTHING but X, they are a liar, then why would G-d come and say to do Y.

You can't be serious..... God finished speaking to mankind with Deuteronomy 13?

... you believe God's words in verses 1-6, but then you IGNORE God's words in verses 7-11.

7 "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or your intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known,
8 gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: 9 do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, 10 but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. 11 You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the LORD, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.

Or do you expect me to believe every Jew follows this command?


Hey, don't get me wrong, I'M A JEW... I love ya... but please don't try to explain to me what Christians believe.


In service to the ONE,
Scott

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Or do you expect me to believe every Jew follows this command?

Perhaps the more interesting question is: do you think "every Jew" should have followed this command prior to Jesus?

 

[Scott1]

Perhaps the more interesting question is: do you think "every Jew" should have followed this command prior to Jesus?

Good question.........not speaking for Jews of the period, but putting myself in that situation, I would have to say no....

I don't believe that my conscience would allow me to kill an innocent man/woman... I would question the validity of the text that commanded me to do so.... I would not believe that it was truly God's words.

Don't know if that helps.... but that's the only way I can get my mind around it.