Violence in the Bible

[michel]

None. I don't agree with the death penalty at all. I would note that all of the quotes you have come up with which suggest death as a punishment for sin are from the Old Testament law and most Christians do not believe that this still applies. It sems you would be better off asking those (such as Judaizing Christians of various sorts) that don't believe that the Gospel of Christ supersedes the OT law. For me, and many Christians, the laws in the Old Testament are as much history as is the Magna Carta.

James

Well I still consider myself very much a novice in matters religious.

It makes my heart glow to hear such a well schooled man as you, James, confirming my own particular views - arrived at, not from study, but from the way I perceive Jesus Christ.

Darkdale, all those nasty bits; just shred them..........:biglaugh:

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It sems you would be better off asking those (such as Judaizing Christians of various sorts) ...

I just wanted to capture this ...

 

[JerryL]

Darkdale, all those nasty bits; just shred them..........

So "follow the parts you like and discard the rest"? Seems you shoudl likely throw out the Bible (it's confusing) and just make a new document.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

So, do those that believe in the Bible believe we should murder witches and homosexuals?

No. As you will notice, all of these verses come from the Old Testament. As Christians we no longer follow the Old Law. Therefore, none of these commandments apply to us. You will never find a verse in the New Testament, which we as Christians follow, that says to kill someone. They will get their punishment soon enough.

May I also point out that death was given as punishment to these people, like the death penalty today. They broke the law of their day, and the punishment was death. I also hope that you realize that death (which was an Old Testament punishment for sin) is no more violent than being thrown into Hell (which is the New Testament punishment for sin).

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

I wouldn't really even call "not inheriting the kingdom of God" a violent thing on God's part. He warned us.If you don't follow his commandments, you're going to Hell. That's the only way I know to put it.

As a Christian, what offenses do you feel I should be killed for?

I don't believe you should be killed for anything. We will get judged, and possibly punished later on. But it is not for us as Christians to punish people, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I also hope that you realize that death (which was an Old Testament punishment for sin) is no more violent than being thrown into Hell (which is the New Testament punishment for sin).

< -- snip -- >​

I wouldn't really even call "not inheriting the kingdom of God" a violent thing on God's part. He warned us.If you don't follow his commandments, you're going to Hell.

A true poster child for Christian love ...

 

[Quiddity]

A true poster child for Christian love ...

Do what strikes you fancy is much more loving...

~Victor

 

[nutshell]

I'll just repeat what other have been saying...the scriptures the creator of this thread mentioned are from the OT or referring to the OT. With Christ came the new law (i.e. turn the other cheek, etc.).

 

[joeboonda]

Yes, God was dealing with Israel as a separate people unto himself, with special laws to show that and to protect them, like not eating pork, or washing their hands in running water if they touch something unclean, or killing a witch. That was a different age and was specifically to set Israel apart as God's chosen people through whom he would eventually send the promised Messiah, Jesus to pay for the sins of all mankind freely by our simply accepting the free gift.

When reading the biblical history one can see different ages or dispensations wherein God deals a bit differently with man. (each one ushered in usually by some sort of supenatural events or miracles to show man it was from God)--actually miracles in the Bible happened with many years between them. There was the Age of Innocence in the Garden of Eden, the Age of Conciousness where man did what was right in his own eyes, then the Age of Human Government, where the law was only if you kill someone you must be killed, then the Age of Promise to Abraham, then the Age of the Law given to Moses and the Israelites. Now we are in the Age of Grace, or the Church Age, next will be the Age of the Kingdom, which is the 1,000 yr. reign of Christ on Earth, and then The New Heavens and New Earth or Eternity.

Note, the ten commandments are the founding stones of the US laws except for sabbath-keeping which the first christians, who were jewish, began meeting on Sunday, to show the radical change that happenned as Christ rose on Sunday morning. The old laws (not commandments) are replaced by a higher law of love, and grace, which far exceeds the old. The commandments are good and holy, but are there to show us that we are, in fact, sinners, that we could not be in God's holy presence for a split second without being consumed. So we have Christ's righteousness freely given to us, covering, and even washing away our sin, and God said he is satisfied with that payment. (Isaiah 53) and read Romans. Hope that helps!

 

[JerryL]

With Christ came the new law (

That would be the Christ that said:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
​

You know the commandments? All those bits in the OT you don't like.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do what strikes you fancy is much more loving...

To attribute such an attitude to atheists in general or me in particular is pure bigotry. That you can manage no better than to wallow in ad hominem speaks volumes.

 

[Deut 13:1]

To attribute such an attitude to atheists in general or me in particular is pure bigotry. That you can manage no better than to wallow in ad hominem speaks volumes.

I believe the english term is pot-kettle?

 

[Pah]

Do what strikes you fancy is much more loving...

~Victor

Doing what strikes my fancy is not supporting the massive violence displayed in Christian and Jewish scripture. It is not the elegantarian morality incorporated there but one based on humanistic principle. That anyone would challange my or Deut's morality is ignorance of both our behavior and scriptual shortcomings. That it becomes willful ignorance in the supposition that faith or bible is superior and without critical examination is despicible and odious.

 

[Quiddity]

To attribute such an attitude to atheists in general or me in particular is pure bigotry. That you can manage no better than to wallow in ad hominem speaks volumes.

You throw that word around much too often for something as impersonal as the world wide web. Little do you know.

~Victor

 

[Quiddity]

Doing what strikes my fancy is not supporting the massive violence displayed in Christian and Jewish scripture.

Nor is mine. Since your the expert of exegetical methods and the things of God perhaps I should take your word on it. Pllllllleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeee.....

It is not the elegantarian morality incorporated there but one based on humanistic principle.

The humanistic principle is random at best. Don't waste my time with something that obviously doesn't work.

That anyone would challange my or Deut's morality is ignorance of both our behavior and scriptual shortcomings.

Don't be childish and don't twist my words to suit your post.

That it becomes willful ignorance in the supposition that faith or bible is superior and without critical examination is despicible and odious.

Superior to your method? Of course I believe that. Don't be silly.

~Victor

 

[Pah]

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Nor is mine. Since your the expert of exegetical methods and the things of God perhaps I should take your word on it. Pllllllleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeee.....



The humanistic principle is random at best. Don't waste my time with something that obviously doesn't work.



Don't be childish and don't twist my words to suit your post.



Superior to your method? Of course I believe that. Don't be silly.

~Victor

-QED-

 

[Deut 13:1]

-QED-

What's that mean?

 

[Pah]

What's that mean? [QED]

From the Latin "quod erat demonstrandum" translated "which was to be proved". It is what is placed at the end of the proof in a geometry proplem. It is frequently used to say "I proved my case" - the case being the post

Doing what strikes my fancy is not supporting the massive violence displayed in Christian and Jewish scripture. It is not the elegantarian morality incorporated there but one based on humanistic principle. That anyone would challange my or Deut's morality is ignorance of both our behavior and scriptual shortcomings. That it becomes willful ignorance in the supposition that faith or bible is superior and without critical examination is despicible and odious.

All but one of my statements were shown to be true by the answers Victor gave and especially the last.

 

[michel]

So "follow the parts you like and discard the rest"? Seems you shoudl likely throw out the Bible (it's confusing) and just make a new document.

I am not sure why it would interest you (how and on what I base my beliefs), since you quote no afilliation to any religion.

I think Christiangirl put it quite nicely in the post immediately following yours.

No. As you will notice, all of these verses come from the Old Testament. As Christians we no longer follow the Old Law. Therefore, none of these commandments apply to us. You will never find a verse in the New Testament, which we as Christians follow, that says to kill someone.

I think that describes my view to a tee. (and I used to worry that I was not a proper Christian for thinking that way).

 

[Quiddity]

All but one of my statements were shown to be true by the answers Victor gave and especially the last.

Incorrect!! It is bad to compare bad catholics who were not following church teaching to those good atheist. Hardly a comparison. Since your system is not even up and running yet, there is nothing to compare. The system is still being squabbled about.

~Victor

 

[michel]

Incorrect!! It is bad to compare bad catholics who were not following church teaching to those good atheist. Hardly a comparison. Since your system is not even up and running yet, there is nothing to compare. The system is still being squabbled about.

~Victor

Since your system is not even up and running yet, there is nothing to compare. The system is still being squabbled about.

Sorry Victor, I am lost, what do you mean by that ?