I dont' agree with you, therefore I don't understand is what I'm reading here.
Thanks for resposnes Aasimar. You said " ...
can't imagine he gets all that distraught seeing as how he could actually make everything exactly the way he wants to at any given time. " If you don't understand that the very act of allowing us to exist with free agency causes suffering then I can't help you.
Okay, tell the 1.5+ Billion believers that killing an avatar of yourself to impress yourself and enable you to forgive that which you created for being the way you created them is ridiculous.
Not an avatar. God can be everywhere at once, in any way he wants. There was nothing done to impress, but to fullfill. There was an outstanding debt that had to be paid. God can't go back on his own word, and he didn't want to lose us forever either, so he found a way, literally.
So is god capable of stopping suffering?
If you want to give up your free agency.
Ah yes, I am like God and know good an evil now.
I had hoped you would have read all of the verse. Nevertheless I'll repeat the relevant part for you: "He must not be allowed to .. live forever." Compare that with John 3:16.
You didn't forget what God said in 2nd Kings 2:23-24 did you?
Here's my take on it. If you want more detail pm me.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1012858-post40.html
Upstairs is unnecessary. The person wronged forgave you. Now assuming you have cleared your own conciounce ( can't spell...) then you're good to go.
It's not just about a clear conscience, it's about
eternal life.
I gave up doing serious reading of the bible after the 2nd full readthrough, KJV and NIV.
With all due respect, I feel that you may not have understood some of the fundamental bits. The bible is full of contract (covenant) talk. If the bible is difficult how about google. Here's a start:
New Covenant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Covenant (biblical - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
New Covenant in a Nutshell
I don't recall signing any contracts with any God so I suppose he must have signed it with something else.
God is the father and we are the children. He knows what's best for us just as a Father has rules inside of his families house. He doesn't negotiate the important ones with his children, rather he lays out what's necessary and enforces it.
And what makes you think I wouldn't want to go through life again, I love life. Life rocks, I don't need another one. I'm happy with what I have.
I agree, living is a good thing! But we were talking about a life of attempting to be perfect. Do you really want to go through that, over and over, even though you will never achieve it?
Well he made us that way, so it's his problem and not mine.
He made you, not your choices. You are
your problem. Fortunately, you are also
his problem.
You know, one minute you have a problem with God taking responsibility and the next you complain that he doesn't. But he does. That's why he sets up the contracts (covenants) and has the final word on salvation.
Talk about taking responsibility for your own actions, who the hell is holding God accountable in all this?
No one is higher than God. Or put another way, God is love, and love doesn't have to answer to anybody.
Then you aren't forgiven. And you'll just have to deal with that. You'll just have to be satisfied with whatever you have done to clear your own conciounse (I hate that word.)
I was refering to your earlier notion that judgement should be up to the victim. My example showed that where an eteranl salvation were concerned there is a need for an overall judge.
I'd tell God I'd love to be with them, but I'm not accepting the terms of his contract. Never signed it to begin with.
As corny as it sounds, Father know best. I hope there are still people in this world who accept that there might be someone out there who knows more than we do.
Btw, sounds to me like what you are really saying is that you might be able to forgive others, but not yourself.
Free gift, right. I'll let you hang out with me if only you do absolutely everything I say and obey me to the ends of the earth and admit you're just a piece of dirt I made, and make sure you're humble and groveling and subservient, because I like my creations to kiss my rear.
Rear? No, lol, you have it arse-about-face! Seriously, being saved makes you want to be obedient, in that order.
And there is no rear kissing with God. It's like a relationship between an unconditionally loving parent and child, only magnified far beyond what we could imagine and for all eternity. Consider how God did not think he was too good to walk and talk with the first kids in the garden of Eden. Consider how Jesus became one of us and how he tried to reach out. The whole fire and brimstone thing is for when we are rebellious, and it was not the way God originally wanted things to be. Jesus said he will come and make his home with you. Sure God is 'all that', but he's much more interested in
you.