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Vatican says gender theory and attempt to "annihilate nature"

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I do believe the Church is g-r-a-d-u-a-l-l-y coming around to accepting the fact that being gay is not a choice-- it's biology. Pope Francis definitely seems to be going in that direction, but he's also getting a lot of resistance from traditionalists within the Church as well.
     
  2. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    There are differences between individuals of the gender as well the science has found.
     
  3. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    Not scientific, where are the numbers? No matter what you believe at best you will find women or men on average have this much difference. When it comes to the mind or brain which is basically in control of you there is no 1 thing that makes us male or female. At best you will get 70% of women have more this than men and 70% of men have more this than females.
     
  4. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    I never said men and women are chemically equal what I am saying is that even with in the gender no 2 individuals are chemically equal and there are outliers on both sides that would fall into the average of the other gender.
     
  5. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Yes, and you'll find that "men are bigger than women," except that there are lots of women who are bigger than lots of men...and any number of other such generalizations. What point are you trying to make?

    My point, especially when I mentioned the pheromone study, is that there are very definite indications that (remember, pheromones operate chemically directly at the chemical level) different brains respond differently to the same stimulus. The fact is, there are male pheromones, and the fact is that most women's brains respond to them in a similar manner, and most men's brains do not. Yet, there are a few men whose brains respond the way that most female brains do, and their are a few females whose brains respond they way that most male brains do.

    And remember, we're talking now about the very heart of evolution...survival long enough to procreate and pass on successful genes. This is now getting into what we might call the "hard-wired" part of us, and the fact is that some of us are hard-wired in a way that conflicts with other gross sexual characteristics.
     
  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Of course. And its to be expected. Much like height. Men tend to be taller and women are oftentimes shorter. But a 5-foot man and 6-foot woman aren't exactly rare. Sometimes theyre even both of average height for either. As for brains, we dont have cookie cutter brains but we can say "this brain looks female and this ine looks male." Much like how most people are easily discernable as male or female, with some being as androgynous as SNL's Pat.
     
  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    No doubt. Such as those who do not want children. That serves zero use if procreation is the goal, yet it happens. The same with asexuals. Bisexuals, observing other social animals, seem to be the most natural and normal.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Why would it have anything to do with religion? If they’re proposing scientific ideas they should be entirely independent of any theological beliefs (as many religious scientists, even some Catholic priests who are also scientists, manage). If their ideas are based on religious faith, that “This is true because God says so!”, it would be rightly rejected.
     
  9. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    No study is 100% your pheromone indicated that a majority but there are others that have the pheromone and respond differently. No one is hard wired either way both men and women have attributes of the other. What I am saying is that gender mentally can not be scientifically defined currently and any attempt is pseudoscience. Two main reasons we still know very little about the working of the Brain or Mind although it has gotten better and second individuality plays a big role in how the Brain or Mind works. With the brain or mind eliminating the environment is impossible, it is not just biology.
     
  10. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    On the other hand, I know quite well what it "feels like" to be male, and I have never said it is "just biology." I have no idea what it "feels like" to be female. Now, it just happens that my body exhibits male characteristics, as well...you know, penis and testicles, facial hair, narrower hips and the like. But I have known people with bodies basically like mine who never, ever in their lives felt as if they "belonged" in the bodies they had. They "felt" female. Is that not really the definition of a "female brain?" Is not that the brain expressing its own identity?

    And who are you or I to deny any other person's feelings? I have lived all my life by one tenet, at least, which is that "people's feelings are real, and I will respect them." I have never told anyone "you shouldn't feel that way," when thy express their feelings to me. That would be the same thing as not listening to them, and that, I'm sure you'll agree, has often been a source of strife, even between people who like or love one another.
     
  11. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    I have no problem with people's feelings my problem was with defining a Male brain and Female brain as biological truths
     
  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    To the highly devouted Christian, everything does have to donwith your religion and god. Their world view begins with the assumption god is real and he is aomnipotent/scient/present. Because god is always present, he is involved with everything.
     
  13. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Then why would it be wrong to reject that as unscientific? If we’re free to just assert open assumptions, those with the opposing view could just assert that gender isn’t fixed and that’s the end of it. You’re perfectly entitled to believe whatever you want but you can’t expect anyone else to simply accept your beliefs on the basis of your faith in them.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Science and faith arent the same, and faith is not compatible with science. Science needs facts and data. Faith doesn't.
     
  15. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    I agree entirely. Isn’t that in contrast to your initial complaint that “god-hating secular sciences” would reject anything related to religion though?
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    They'll reject anything not related to their religion.
     
  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Despite the similar wording, that’s an entirely different issue (and potentially also what the Vatican is doing in the first place). We need to maintain a clear distinction between legitimately rejecting work because it fails to meet basic scientific method and rigour and illegitimately rejecting work because we don’t like the conclusions. Otherwise we allow people who fail on the former to muddy the waters and falsely claim they’re being dismissed on the latter.
     
  18. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    If you believe in science, evolution, and natural selection then two sexes; male and female, is the only conclusion that is totally consistent with this theory. The theory does say that there will be mutations and other distinctions in nature, but ultimately, evolution and natural selection involves procreation; passing forward the best genes.

    Most of the extra sexes of the mind, can't procreate, unless they revert back, in some way, to the standard male and female roles. Such people can still thrive as individuals, but evolution is also connected to procreation. Procreation is where genes, which have the traits, are conserved via the DNA. If you were a male who thought you were a female, you male based sperm, has your traits ingrained as genes. The female side of does not contain this.

    If you look at this logically, the philosophy of extra sexes, beyond two, uses a modified Creationists philosophy; type of religion, instead of an evolutionary philosophy; science. They will use science and politics, to play god, so they can rig the parameters of nature, using various legal, science and free market prosthesis magic tricks. If the magic is good, people get fooled.

    For example, say there was a three legged toad, with all three legs different sizes. In a natural environment, he would not be selected for procreation, but would quickly become a food based mutation, for slower critters.

    But if you get humans involved, who wish to play god; atheists, they can set up tricks to cheat nature and natural. They can set up a large glass pen full of easy to get resources, using laws and technology. They can even allow the toad to breed, through artificial insemination, so it has offspring, so it all looks like natural selection. If we also invested $millions and it became a reality TV celebrity, then selection becomes fully based on human prestige. But if we removed all the prosthesis, then natural reality becomes clear.

    Say you went to a magic show and the magician's lovely assistant levitates around the stage. The trick is done very well and you cannot see how it is done. Some people, who lack science knowledge and/or who have faith in the mysterious, will start to believe levitation is possible. They saw it happen, and this can be verified by everyone on the room, just like in science.

    Others, who have a more skeptical science bent, may not be able not prove it, but they know this cannot be real, since anti-gravity is way in the future. They know this is a trick; manmade creationism, but they are still trying to figure it out in a room where most people have been fooled. I am showing you how the trick works, so you can have the option to believe in the man made creationism, or remain grounded in evolutionary science reality.

    The Vatican has relied on Evolution Science, to disprove man made Creationism. Vatican says gender theory is an attempt to annihilate nature or natural with man made creationism. Separation of Church and State may need to be evoked. In other words, you can practice your faith in the private sector, but the governments needs to stay out of it; all such law needs to be revoked. This will cripple the magic show and will be resisted by the magician union who will instant manmade creationism is free market and not religion.

    A magician uses science and technology to fool the eyes, so the mind thinks it has gone beyond the natural. The audience, if fooled to believe, has been transported to an alternate reality. The magician is providing a fantasy service, but the audience, by being fooled, can be induced into a religious state of mind.

    The compromise may be a legal disclaimer, by the magicians, that say this is a trick and is not natural or super natural, but is intended for entertainment only. On the other hand, the hack magicians can be more effective if the audience believes in the magic of better magicians, in advance; religious primer. The disclaimer may still be enough.
     
    #38 wellwisher, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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