The argument is this and simple:
Humans have objective value.
What is objective value? That's a concept that seems impossible to me...
Humans would not have objective value without God.
Another way to phrase this:
The value of humans is not illusionary but an objective reality.
Without God, there is no objective reality to the value of human beings.
Does god's opinion of things make them objectively true? What are some other examples of his opinion becoming manifested reality? The concept seems like nonsense, honestly.
This simple argument would prove God.
I've for years agued for both premises. I will not do so in this thread, but in another one, but just want to see people thoughts on each.
The following I hope will be responded in posts if people deny the 2nd premise:
(1) If God doesn't exist, what is a human's value?
I would imagine human value is the value humans give themselves in regards to certain things, or maybe the value that a predator could see them as a source of food.
(2) What is the measurement and criteria of the human's value if God doesn't exist?
Whatever people think is important to measure, I suppose. Maybe someone's status is one way. Maybe their skill is another. I think that's more of a situational thing, since my value as a baseball player isn't much (I don't play baseball), but my value as a friend is pretty high (I take my friendships very seriously). What kind of value is "human?" I'd like to know precisely what that objective value is. What is it's worth?
(3) How did evolution bring us to value objectively and not in illusionary magical made up way?
Uhhh..... I don't know what any of this means.
I believe God's light and value himself is the basis of all value, he lives with all things in this sense and is immersed with them.
I don't know what this means, either. How do you convey to someone what "god's light" even is? Why is it a system of worth? What is this supposed to mean to people who don't hold your worldview, cause I find myself confused... Break it down into simplest terms for me.
If you deny or doubt the first premise, here are some questions:
(1) Why do believe in value and love human beings and appreciate states of being in form of good actions and will of humans?
A lot of it has to do with the values I was raised and with. I value human beings because I care about human beings. Not everyone does. Something can't be objectively true, like physics, unless it's observable and repeatable across the board. I can't just glitch through the sky and ignore physics altogether, so how can people ignore valuing people (like sociopaths) if valuing people is objectively true? Everyone is subject to the rules of objective reality.
(2) How do you know humans don't objective value?
How do you know that void doesn't equal 4 and skyscraper doesn't taste like yellow? It's a nonsense concept that, while not disprovable, doesn't have any applicable worth. "Objective value" is a concept that doesn't mean anything as far as I'm aware. It's your job as the person who proposes such things to show that they are at least something that might conceivably exist.
(3) If we do have objective value, should we doubt it?
We should doubt everything and constantly test it, yes. That's how we get closer to the truth and find out when we are wrong.
(4) If we do perceive objective value, why should we doubt anything about it including if it's God's light?
Because human beings can be mistaken, and we often are... We should always seek to better understand the truth if we care about the truth.
