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[Ben Dhyan]

So what?

So if you were to cease thinking, it would be like ceasing being only aware of a TV program you are absorbed in, nay, acting in, and instead becoming aware of the real environment, which includes the ability to turn the TV back on whenever.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So if you were to cease thinking, it would be like ceasing being only aware of a TV program you are absorbed in, nay, acting in, and instead becoming aware of the real environment, which includes the ability to turn the TV back on whenever.

Yes. It appears when you are dead you are dead.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes. It appears when you are dead you are dead.

You mean if the character on TV dies, they are really dead. Sorry SZ, the TV series you find yourself as an 'extra' in is only the experience of the thinking mind, turn it off for heaven's sake and experience actual reality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You mean if the character on TV dies, they are really dead. Sorry SZ, the TV series you find yourself as an 'extra' in is only the experience of the thinking mind, turn it off for heaven's sake and experience actual reality.

Poor analogy. We are not TV characters. You are making assumptions that you cannot justify.

By the way, you said that you did not believe in magic. Are you changing your mind now?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Poor analogy. We are not TV characters. You are making assumptions that you cannot justify.

By the way, you said that you did not believe in magic. Are you changing your mind now?

I am at a loss to understand why your second allowed you back in the ring, it's cruel.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am at a loss to understand why your second allowed you back in the ring, it's cruel.

LMAO!! Sorry, but you have just been failing all along and now you are misusing an argument. Clarke was referring to real things. Things that were not understood by people and called "magic". You one the other hand do not seem to have any real things as an example.

You need to work on your logic skills if you want to try to insult others. Understanding the context of quotes helps too.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

LMAO!! Sorry, but you have just been failing all along and now you are misusing an argument. Clarke was referring to real things. Things that were not understood by people and called "magic". You one the other hand do not seem to have any real things as an example.

You need to work on your logic skills if you want to try to insult others. Understanding the context of quotes helps too.

Ok, so now you are saying that magic is real, ACC said so.

The thing is SZ, you are presently incapable of ceasing to think in any event, hence it is not possible for you to experience being a part of existence instead of creating an imitation of it in your head and imagining it to be real, iow., Plato's shadows on the cave wall metaphorical reality. But I'm not knocking you for that, where you are is where it begins for every soul eventually.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok, so now you are saying that magic is real, ACC said so.

The thing is SZ, you are presently incapable of ceasing to think in any event, hence it is not possible for you to experience being a part of existence instead of creating an imitation of it in your head and imagining it to be real, iow., Plato's shadows on the cave wall metaphorical reality. But I'm not knocking you for that, where you are is where it begins for every soul eventually.

That is another logic fail. How on Earth did you get that reasoning backwards? And you may be right. At the present I cannot stop thinking. You seem to believe that you can stop thinking. That is a bug. Not a feature.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is another logic fail. How on Earth did you get that reasoning backwards? And you may be right. At the present I cannot stop thinking. You seem to believe that you can stop thinking. That is a bug. Not a feature.

Plato had it right, the shadows on the cave wall are reality to those whose believe that conceptual reality is real. Sz, where do you come from, the animal kingdom? Still mind meditation is probably practiced by tens, if not hundreds of millions of people, that in itself does not mean that they all experience a still mind, but all who persist in the practice will certainly realize it in a decade or two.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Plato had it right, the shadows on the cave wall are reality to those whose believe that conceptual reality is real. Sz, where do you come from, the animal kingdom? Still mind meditation is probably practiced by tens, if not hundreds of millions of people, that in itself does not mean that they all experience a still mind, but all who persist in the practice will certainly realize it in a decade or two.

That does not mean that any of them ever stopped thinking. They may have thought less. And it may help with some personal issues. But that does not make any of your claims close to bring correct.

By the way, if you cannot support your claims then that is a good indication that your beliefs are false.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That does not mean that any of them ever stopped thinking. They may have thought less. And it may help with some personal issues. But that does not make any of your claims close to bring correct.

By the way, if you cannot support your claims then that is a good indication that your beliefs are false.

The whole purpose of religion is to be able to transcend the dualistic mind to realize the oneness of existence, but it does not mean that one, while still incarnate, can't think when it is appropriate.

When someone has realized the state of Samadhi, it is because their mind has ceased functioning in the dualistic state, and is in the thoughtless state. There is a state of awareness that is not divided into an observer and that observed, just pure non-dual awareness. The moment a meditator becomes aware of themself again, they are in duality again.

The concept of claim arises in your mind due to its dualistic state, cease thinking and there is your realization.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The whole purpose of religion is to be able to transcend the dualistic mind to realize the oneness of existence, but it does not mean that one, while still incarnate, can't think when it is appropriate.

When someone has realized the state of Samadhi, it is because their mind has ceased functioning in the dualistic state, and is in the thoughtless state. There is a state of awareness that is not divided into an observer and that observed, just pure non-dual awareness. The moment a meditator becomes aware of themself again, they are in duality again.

The concept of claim arises in your mind due to its dualistic state, cease thinking and there is your realization.

So what? It does not free you from the burden of proof if you want to claim that your beliefs are true. If a person just says "I believe this" then people will probably let them be. But if one says "I believe this and it is true" that person has just taken on a burden of proof. If they say "I believe this is and it is rue, and you must follow these laws" that person has taken on an enormous burden of proof.

Just claiming that it is religion is not an excuse. It does not free you from those burdens.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So what? It does not free you from the burden of proof if you want to claim that your beliefs are true. If a person just says "I believe this" then people will probably let them be. But if one says "I believe this and it is true" that person has just taken on a burden of proof. If they say "I believe this is and it is rue, and you must follow these laws" that person has taken on an enormous burden of proof.

Just claiming that it is religion is not an excuse. It does not free you from those burdens.

But I never said I believe it, nor can I because there is no I present in a state of non-duality. The I only arises when you think, that's why you will never understand as the I is the thinker and you do not want to cease being a thinking mortal entity. Religion is about immortality, but not the immortality of the thinker, it is temporary.

That's probably why you don't sleep much either, when you are asleep you are not thinking.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The whole purpose of religion is to be able to transcend the dualistic mind to realize the oneness of existence, but it does not mean that one, while still incarnate, can't think when it is appropriate.

When someone has realized the state of Samadhi, it is because their mind has ceased functioning in the dualistic state, and is in the thoughtless state. There is a state of awareness that is not divided into an observer and that observed, just pure non-dual awareness. The moment a meditator becomes aware of themself again, they are in duality again.

The concept of claim arises in your mind due to its dualistic state, cease thinking and there is your realization.

Sigh . . . more word salad. I am not impressed by this nor are other atheists. You need to do better.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sigh . . . more word salad. I am not impressed by this nor are other atheists. You need to do better.

It is you Sir that uses pat responses like this one for example, to posts that are above the atheist's pay grade. It's as if you require a belief on which to base your life?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is you Sir that uses pat responses like this one for example, to posts that are above the atheist's pay grade. It's as if you require a belief on which to base your life?

When you only make pat posts what do you expect? I know, it must be rather disappointing that you cannot support your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with saying that one has beliefs, but you keep making the error of trying to claim that your beliefs are rational. When you do that you take on a burden of proof and so far you have failed at that. You will not even discuss a reasonable way that you could support your claims.


I do not require a belief, but it is rather obvious that you do.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

When you only make pat posts what do you expect? I know, it must be rather disappointing that you cannot support your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with saying that one has beliefs, but you keep making the error of trying to claim that your beliefs are rational. When you do that you take on a burden of proof and so far you have failed at that. You will not even discuss a reasonable way that you could support your claims.


I do not require a belief, but it is rather obvious that you do.

So where is the evidence that you are an atheist? Just because you make the claim is not proof you are, anyone can claim they are an atheist or a Theist, but proving it objectively is another thing. How do we know that you don't have a crucifix hanging around your neck, all the while pretending you are an atheist? Now cough with some evidence, the burden of proof is on you and so far you have failed at that..

 

[Subduction Zone]

So where is the evidence that you are an atheist? Just because you make the claim is not proof you are, anyone can claim they are an atheist or a Theist, but proving it objectively is another thing. How do we know that you don't have a crucifix hanging around your neck, all the while pretending you are an atheist? Now cough with some evidence, the burden of proof is on you and so far you have failed at that..

Oh my. Get back to me when you understand the burden of proof. Or you could ask politely and I may be willing to help you to learn.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Oh my. Get back to me when you understand the burden of proof. Or you could ask politely and I may be willing to help you to learn.

So if when my body was in the sleep state, there was a dream experience that I told you about, please explain the type of evidence you need that would prove it happened?

So if when my body was in still mind state, there was a non-dual experience that I told you about, please explain the type of evidence you need that would prove it happened?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So if when my body was in the sleep state, there was a dream experience that I told you about, please explain the type of evidence you need that would prove it happened?

So if when my body was in still mind state, there was a non-dual experience that I told you about, please explain the type of evidence you need that would prove it happened?

You really need to openly admit that you do not understand logic or the burden of proof. I will gladly go over these concepts even using the example that you gave.