US: Donald Trump launches 2024 comeback bid, makes his 'very big announcement'

[Ben Dhyan]

She may not be able to know that. But sadly it appears that you do not know that either. We can all see that you have a very strong belief, but belief is not knowledge. Knowledge is demonstrable and you have failed to demonstrate that your beliefs are accurate at all.

My mind is able to be without thought, you can not know if that is a truthful statement or not. But it is unlikely that all Buddhists, Christians, Hindus, Taoists, and other aspirants who have followed the teaching and attest to the reality that exists in the mind non-duality state, are all self-deceived or lying.

 

[F1fan]

So your goal here is to "trigger people?"

Right, SZ says "when you're dead you're dead" and the response is that we aren't dead, blah, blah, blah. No, we are dead. Dead means something specific, and we are IT when we die.

So if you wrote that rotten fruit is rotten he would reply that it isn't rotten at the atomic level, or some nonsense like that, so to the universe it is the same as fresh fruit. His shtick seems to just find something to disagree with from others and drag some irrelevant tangent into it, as if he's being profound. Truth is truth, and truth is not truth. It is whack a mole.

Let's note this thread is supposed to be about Trump running for president in 2024.

 

[F1fan]

Absolutely, one must cease all thought about God

We atheists do.

But the experience is natural, and there is a natural explanation, it just doesn't fit the Atheist belief system. God is nature, including you

OK, so God is nature. So every time you write the word God I will replace it with the word nature and respond. You should have no problem with this since they mean the same thing according to you. Since the word God can be confusing and misleading when a person is referring to what is real and exists, I will replace it for clarity.

The experience was natural, and there was a natural explanation, it just doesn't fit the Atheist belief system. (Nature) is nature, including you, (nature) bless you ST.

See how this works? Do you agree with how my adjusments work? If not, why? What isn't accurate?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Right, SZ says "when you're dead you're dead" and the response is that we aren't dead, blah, blah, blah. No, we are dead. Dead means something specific, and we are IT when we die.

So if you wrote that rotten fruit is rotten he would reply that it isn't rotten at the atomic level, or some nonsense like that, so to the universe it is the same as fresh fruit. His shtick seems to just find something to disagree with from others and drag some irrelevant tangent into it, as if he's being profound. Truth is truth, and truth is not truth. It is whack a mole.

Let's note this thread is supposed to be about Trump running for president in 2024.

You do not understand, the SZ quip about being dead concerns a mind that is without thought. When one's mind transcends duality by ceasing the thinking process, you are not dead, the autonomous nervous system does not cease to work.

I do not understand this hypothetical case of rotten fruit at the atomic level, and who said what and why?

You can report it for being off topic if you like.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

We atheists do.


OK, so God is nature. So every time you write the word God I will replace it with the word nature and respond. You should have no problem with this since they mean the same thing according to you. Since the word God can be confusing and misleading when a person is referring to what is real and exists, I will replace it for clarity.


See how this works? Do you agree with how my adjusments work? If not, why? What isn't accurate?

One must cease thinking period.

Fine, a rose by any other name still smells the same.

Those changes are fine talking with me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Don't blame the messenger for the message.

That's not an answer to my question.
Especially when said messenger can't even demonstrate that he's conveying the right message.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Funny, that is a similar approach as Theists who have a single position on one topic, God exists. Aside from that, theists come in all shapes and sizes and can believe or not believe anything else, not having anything at all to do with theism.

Yep. Theism itself doesn't have any teachings. It's religions that have those. And each religion has it's own teachings, tenets, set of beliefs, god(s), etc.

Atheism doesn't work like that.

But the reality that is represented by the concept of God to some theists is the same universe you believe in, except that Atheists perceive the universe in a dualistic fashion, the perceiver and the perceived, whereas some theists realize it non-dualistically.

You dear ST, can not still your mind to know if what I am conveying is true or not, until you do, you can never know. when the mind is still, there is only a unified presence, no perceiver and perceived, just oneness of existence.

Pfft. You don't get to blame me for your inability to produce evidence that backs up your god claims.

And as far as I can tell, you're just labelling the universe god. Well, I call it the universe.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That's not an answer to my question.
Especially when said messenger can't even demonstrate that he's conveying the right message.

You think so. It you think that your thoughts are the same as that which your thoughts represent, then please explain why you imagine it to be so.
For example, let's take the word 'universe', in my case, my understanding is that the concept is not real in the sense that the reality represented by the concept 'universe' is real. What is your opinion? Please allow for the fact that I must rely on conceptualizing to convey my point.
Btw, to my understanding, the universe is synonymous with the concept of God, it is all that is.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yep. Theism itself doesn't have any teachings. It's religions that have those. And each religion has it's own teachings, tenets, set of beliefs, god(s), etc.

Atheism doesn't work like that.


Pfft. You don't get to blame me for your inability to produce evidence that backs up your god claims.

And as far as I can tell, you're just labelling the universe god. Well, I call it the universe.

You have a different understanding to the meaning of certain words/concepts/names that we are using. Religion to me means what the Latin root means, 'to tie back', not all that different to the word Yoga which means 'to unite'. Religion is a way to transcend the dualistic mind's conception of realty, and realize the oneness state of being.

Atheism is using the dualisitic mind to try and conceive reality whereas religion is meant to be one with reality.

The evidence is you and all else that exists, the universe is god, god is the universe. Yes, you are free to not use the concept God when referring to the universe when speaking with someone who can use one or the other depending on the context.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You have a different understanding to the meaning of certain words/concepts/names that we are using. Religion to me means what the Latin root means, 'to tie back', not all that different to the word Yoga which means 'to unite'. Religion is a way to transcend the dualistic mind's conception of realty, and realize the oneness state of being.

Atheism is using the dualisitic mind to try and conceive reality whereas religion is meant to be one with reality.

The evidence is you and all else that exists, the universe is god, god is the universe. Yes, you are free to not use the concept God when referring to the universe when speaking with someone who can use one or the other depending on the context.

Okey dokey then.

If you want the universe to be god, go for it. I'm going to refer to it as the thing it has been labelled, which is the universe.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You have a different understanding to the meaning of certain words/concepts/names that we are using. Religion to me means what the Latin root means, 'to tie back', not all that different to the word Yoga which means 'to unite'. Religion is a way to transcend the dualistic mind's conception of realty, and realize the oneness state of being.

Atheism is using the dualisitic mind to try and conceive reality whereas religion is meant to be one with reality.

The evidence is you and all else that exists, the universe is god, god is the universe. Yes, you are free to not use the concept God when referring to the universe when speaking with someone who can use one or the other depending on the context.

So anyway, what do you think of Donald Trump's comeback bid for President?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Okey dokey then.

If you want the universe to be god, go for it. I'm going to refer to it as the thing it has been labelled, which is the universe.

That's fine, as I said, I use whatever word fits the context, Universe, Cosmos, Brahman, Macrocosm, Nature, Everything, God, Existence, Being , All that is, etc.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So anyway, what do you think of Donald Trump's comeback bid for President?

Changing the subject, is the reality represented by the concept of mind in a non-dual state something you refuse to accept as possible?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Changing the subject, is the reality represented by the concept of mind in a non-dual state something you refuse to accept as possible?

I'm trying to get back to the subject ....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It's a late call, we have been OT for the last 20 pages, and it has long ago developed into a sort of "the last post is the winner". SZ has run away scared, now you are beginning to send a sort of 'I've had enough' message, so I am happy to be declared the winner.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's a late call, we have been OT for the last 20 pages, and it has long ago developed into a sort of "the last post is the winner". SZ has run away scared, now you are beginning to send a sort of 'I've had enough' message, so I am happy to be declared the winner.

No, I got bored. You can't see your errors. You won't debate rationally. There was no point in going on.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, I got bored. You can't see your errors. You won't debate rationally. There was no point in going on.

You are not able to cease thought, even for a moment, so my attempt to convey to you that your concept of what is real is just a brain generated model of what is real, and is not the real itself, fails to be understood. You must learn to still your mind to see the maze you as the thinker is lost in. Because you do not know that the reason the thinker continues to think is that the thinker thinks that thinking is reality, and does not even know it is caught in a maze.

Still your mind and an awareness that transcends the maze is realized.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are not able to cease thought, even for a moment, so my attempt to convey to you that your concept of what is real is just a brain generated model of what is real, and is not the real itself, fails to be understood. You must learn to still your mind to see the maze you as the thinker is lost in. Because you do not know that the reason the thinker continues to think is that the thinker thinks that thinking is reality, and does not even know it is caught in a maze.

Still your mind and an awareness that transcends the maze is realized.

No, we all understand what you believe. People have all sorts of crazy beliefs. What matters is if they can support those beliefs.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No, we all understand what you believe. People have all sorts of crazy beliefs. What matters is if they can support those beliefs.

Belief involves thought, there is no thought when the mind is not thinking, do you understand the logic here?
Even if you believed, it is a false belief unless one has experienced a mind free from thought. The real is not affected by a mind that believes or disbelieves or is ignorant of the real.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Belief involves thought, there is no thought when the mind is not thinking, do you understand the logic here?
Even if you believed, it is a false belief unless one has experienced a mind free from thought. The real is not affected by a mind that believes or disbelieves or is ignorant of the real.

That "logic" does not apply to your posts. Do you think that thought is magical? Amazingly your last sentence is correct. Too bad that it can be used against you more than you can use it against others.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That "logic" does not apply to your posts. Do you think that thought is magical? Amazingly your last sentence is correct. Too bad that it can be used against you more than you can use it against others.

No, a thought is not magical, it is merely the brain firing pattern that represents something. The actor on the TV screen of a movie is not the real actor, it is the light patterns coming from the screen that represent the actor. Thought is like a picture, it represents the real, just an image substitute to represent the real.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, a thought is not magical, it is merely the brain firing pattern that represents something. The actor on the TV screen of a movie is not the real actor, it is the light patterns coming from the screen that represent the actor. Thought is like a picture, it represents the real, just an image substitute to represent the real.

So what?