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Featured Unvarifiable Belief

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by SigurdReginson, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. SigurdReginson

    SigurdReginson Well-Known Member
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    One problem I have with religious beliefs are that they can't be varified via third party accounts in a concrete way. They can't be isolated in a lab, or supernatural aspects of the religion (such as miracles) don't have repeatable results.

    That said, there are things I believe that can't be varifed as well. One thing I believe is probably true is that life exists on other planets. There's no real concrete evidence that this is the case; I just think it makes sense, and that it's likely true.

    Are there things of a non-supernatural basis that you believe to be likely but can't varify as well?
     
  2. The Hammer

    The Hammer White Wolf - kvite ulfh
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    The possibility of a Multiverse.

    Also, in regards to religion I think it's called Unverified Personal Gnosis.
    Unverified personal gnosis - Wikipedia.
     
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  3. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    That the universe is fair and that we are not in an alien computer simulation or any other metaphysical/ontological variant than epistemological realism and in effect naturalism.
    So here it is for supernatural in one definition: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe.
    So it is supernatural to claim that the universe is real, because you can't observe that it is real.

    In other words, I am in effect a naturalist, but I treat that as a belief system, just like some version of God, i.e. a creator God.
     
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  4. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    What has led you to believe that these experiences can't be verified by others? On the one hand, I get where you're going with this (my own formal education is heavily slanted in the direction of hard science). On the other, hmm... Beckett wrote a very relevant article about this recently that I'm going to borrow from:

    "
    When we talk about spiritual experiences, religious experiences, magical experiences – anything that falls into that general category – most of us don’t know what to expect.

    It’s easy to say “well, everybody’s experiences are different.” Except they’re not. The details are of course unique to one person (or sometimes, to one group) and to one time, but spiritual experiences usually have common structures and elements. That’s one of the ways we can spot people who aren’t telling the truth. The problem is that most of us don’t know what those common structures and elements are, so we don’t know what to expect.

    And our mainstream society has set some very unhelpful expectations."
    From - Setting Expectations for Spiritual Experiences
    The full article is worth a gander, and while I don't agree with everything he says, Beckett is very correct that we live in a culture that is very bad at setting expectations for religious experiences or even discussing them at all. He goes into some of the reasons for this in his article. The long and the short of it is that these things are only unverifiable if your sole measure of truth is something ill-equipped to contextualize these experiences.
     
  5. whosetosay...

    whosetosay... Member

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    The bible gives information to how an individual may find their own proof about God. I just wonder why no one ever finds it, or more importantly follows it. Faith, is personal but faith which does not get what it expects isn't faith at all.
     
  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    This isn't the thread for it, but if you make a thread there will be at least a few of us who share our thoughts on this.
     
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  7. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Alien life form is something I put a high degree of confidence in, to the point I would be absolutely shocked and puzzled and may have to redo my entire outlook on life if it were discovered we are alone in the universe.
     
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  8. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    @op unless they allowed it. But, anyway I kinda think omniscience is more religious than scientific.
     
  9. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Life and aware human status. I am your equal.

    Correct scientific human advice. As we are origin to self a human using mind of a human to think.

    Basic advice then says science is a liar.

    I can tell stories of belief as a purpose to tell stories.

    My human stories own no status.
    Humans telling stories try to impose status for a self gain that A collection of other selves agree.

    Cult group organised mentality versus natural one self.

    An observed notified human aware chosen life problem given to the single self equality by the group who agreed that they wanted to be especially different living standard.

    Forced the one equal human self to pay in human suffering for that group status.

    Is about as human non intelligent as you can be.
     
  10. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Like you it would be life elsewhere in the universe. I think the difference is the undeniable fact there is life in the universe. It's us..

    The question is where else?

    It seems there is belief based on fact (educated guess) and belief based on fantasy (myth).

    That makes a considerable difference.
     
  11. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Theoretical advice. If other planets in Other galaxies near a sun owned heavens like ours probably it could have life.

    Just. Theory. Just thinking. Just stories. Said only by a human.

    Then science theists just humans claim they own evidence visitation he says. Of other life.

    Yet it is bone/stone type evidence and metal machine parts found inside a fallen earth God planet as it converted it's mass a really long time ago.

    Converting mass God was human designed machine by human scientists who inferred information to radiation out of space sun mass.

    How to.

    Not God earths in any thesis of earth or of God.

    Possessed by signal communicators Ai of image on ground God earth inside of our bio owned life heavens. Alien effect. Interference using conscious natural awAreness. Psyche.

    Knowing the whole thesis is based only on out of space radiation metals not earths.

    Archaeologist brother psyche knew. Said by his natural spiritual man father memories recorded in heavens I will dig up the evidence to once and for all stop you attacking and destroying our life.

    In the name of Michael.

    Earth as mass converting with and because of UFO sun radiation owned a radiated fused cause alienation of natural earth. And our human garden nature bio life.

    Meanwhile human owned artefacts. Human owned designed and used machine parts found in and involved in alien life destruction of earth. A history of causes.

    In Mayan incident temple use I saw vision Mars on fire. it's mass body would also own UFO landing burning attack evidence also. Earth owned it as earth or God fell converting it's mass. A different outcome.

    Caused in modern times by human man designer. Proof he did it as a scientist with his human built machines.

    So it would own above ground similar effects on Mars as found within earth fusion instantly vacuum sealed. How our artefacts were saved as evidence.

    Earth Moses incident luckily did not vacuum space time shift earth into the coldest law. Empty space which is inferred in human science thesis.

    All warnings about the theist in science also involves human behaviours and feelings

    Humans who enjoy using unnatural means to harm other humans just as a human.

    The warning. Destroyer science human theist mentality.
     
  12. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    I'ld just like to point out here that while "life on other planets" can't currently be verified (unless Mars actually still holds life under its surface and one of them probes finds it in the coming weeks, but unlikely :) ), this is a claim that at least can be verified on principle.

    The only reason why it can't be verified is because we currently simply lack the means to gauge other planets relatively easily. It's very hard to do in our solar system and it's currently impossible to do so on planets beyond it.

    Theoretically it would be possible to pick up signals from extra-terrestrial civilizations, but that comes with its own string of problems off course.


    Having said that, "life on other planets" is NOT an unverifiable claim in principle.
    Supernatural claims ARE unverifiable in principle.

    I think this is an important distinction.

    Take the Higgs Boson. This boson had been proposed decades ago. No particle accelerator was powerful enough to find it, if it exists. Until the LHC was build, this too was an "unverifiable" claim - but not in principle.

    Once the technology was present and LHC was build, it was researched and verified and the particle was found.

    Same goes for the alien life claim. Currently unverifiable, but only in principle, because we lack the technology.
    Whereas no conceivable technology could ever verify the supernatural. The supernatural can't be verified or falsified by definition. Making it a worthless and meaningless claim, as unfalsifiable claims are infinite in number.
     
  13. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    For the bold that is currently neither verifiable nor falsifiable by science. Now if you can explain how it is in principle verifiable or falsifiable, then I would like to know how that would work?
     
  14. whosetosay...

    whosetosay... Member

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    Unvarifiable Belief

    Would like to hear your take on the threads title.
     
  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It wasn't religious and superstitious stuff. This thread is specifically "of a non-supernatural basis."
     
  16. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    At first, during the first 2 or 15 minutes, people we meet remind of us others we have met, or know...for a time. For some time.

    Unless and until we talk to them longer. Until we pay attention and listen long enough.

    Eventually, we begin to encounter truly novel, unique things about them, if we are perceptive, pay attention to small things.

    While we notice things they have in common with others, we notice in time each person is really unlike the other 150 or 700 people we've talked for hours with, even while we are reminded of some things other have had.

    So, there are some common things, and also plenty of things that are really unlike others. I'm an observer. I tend to really listen a lot, and then people end up telling me things they say they've told no one else.
     
  17. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    I think simple forms of life must arise on other planets quite a lot, but it takes very unusual conditions (a lot of factors I can spell out precisely, as astronomy/astrophysics has been an interest of mine for many decades) for the habitat to remain viable for that life for billions of years, instead of just millions. Most life will be extinguished at a very primitive level by an asteroid or a CME or super flare, or by gravitational resonances of larger planets in orbit around the star, and many more such commonplace natural events. (if you want more, I'll list more out)
     
  18. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

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    I circumvented the whole issue of believing (without proof) by simply directly testing the instructions Jesus gave on how to live life. My goal was to glean better ways to live. I figured I'd find a few good things, take them, and leave.
     
  19. whosetosay...

    whosetosay... Member

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    Respectfully, I asked for your take on
    Unvarifiable Belief Are you saying that you can't reply to the simple question because the question does not in any way suggest it is about religious or superstitious stuff. Are religious or even superstitions really supernatural? Are not both supernatural and the forces of nature known only because if human cognitive functions? Does any belief exist outside the functions of the human mind and functions?

    So please give your account of natural, supernatural and even non-supernatural outside the cognitive functions of the human being as I find they are non-existence without the functions of a human mind.
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Forum rules prohibit off topic posts.
    Yes. They are outside the laws of nature and have no material presence. Thus off topic per the OP.
     
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