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Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
Sometimes those sources are not exactly trustworthy. I cannot find anything particular about Zarathustra being resurrected either. Though the religion he started did believe in it in the future. As to Osiris he was resurrected, but it was a long longer than just three days:

www.oxfordreference.com

Osiris, Killed by Set, Is Resurrected by Isis

"Osiris, Killed by Set, Is Resurrected by Isis" published on by null.
www.oxfordreference.com www.oxfordreference.com
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ok. ty.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
You drive people to the point of frustration. My post said that it began in Israel, but it was not on its way to world domination until it became popular in Rome.
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I have an inkling about what you may have meant however -- Jesus was not a God in Israel, he was not the God to his disciples, Jesus prayed to HIS God and Father, and he was not a "Roman God." But I do understand what you may have meant.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
You drive people to the point of frustration. My post said that it began in Israel, but it was not on its way to world domination until it became popular in Rome.
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I'm glad I'm asking you to be precise if possible. Don't get frustrated. Ah -- world domination. Yes, that's interesting although of course there are Buddhists and Hindus. Yes, when I went to school I learned in world history about the so-called Christian wars and of course the Great Schism. I'm sure you know about that. I was fascinated because at home I never heard about the "Great Schism." My father was a refugee from Europe just before the Nazis took over.
Nothing was taught about problems and situations about Buddhism or Hindusm. And of course, yes, we know the monarchs of many countries were said to be crowned by the Pope or something like that. You probably know more about it than I do.
The website MAY have meant that they think Jesus was a Roman God. Maybe he was a God that Romans worshiped in the 3rd century or so (I don't know although I do remember that whoever it was (the emperor) had a vision in the sky of a cross or something like that and thought Jesus was somehow communicating with him), but in any case it would be (very) inaccurate to define him as a Roman God. That link is the poster presented as proof is ridiculous and the heading is these "gods" were resurrected after 3 days.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
I have an inkling about what you may have meant however -- Jesus was not a God in Israel, he was not the God to his disciples, Jesus prayed to HIS God and Father, and he was not a "Roman God." But I do understand what you may have meant.
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You are thinking too literally again.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
I'm glad I'm asking you to be precise if possible. Don't get frustrated. Ah -- world domination. Yes, that's interesting although of course there are Buddhists and Hindus. Yes, when I went to school I learned in world history about the so-called Christian wars and of course the Great Schism. I'm sure you know about that. Nothing was taught about problems and situations about Buddhism or Hindusim. And of course, yes, we know the monarchs of many countries were said to be crowned by the Pope or something like that. You probably know more about it than I do.
The website MAY have meant that they think Jesus was a Roman God. Maybe he was a God that Romans worshiped in the 3rd century or so (I don't know although I do remember that whoever it was (the emperor) had a vision in the sky of a cross or something like that and thought Jesus was somehow communicating with him), but in any case it would be (very) inaccurate to define him as a Roman God. That link is the poster presented as proof is ridiculous and the heading is these "gods" were resurrected after 3 days.
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No, you asked to have something explained to you. One cannot always be precise when explaining the thinking of others.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
You drive people to the point of frustration. My post said that it began in Israel, but it was not on its way to world domination until it became popular in Rome.
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Yes, it became a big problem. But then there were other problems. Like the Vikings.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
Good night. And I rechecked that list. It only says that they were resurrected. It did not say "three days". Where did you get that from? Not even Jesus in the Bible was dead for three days.
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OK, you woke me up. Here is the title of the "list." Check the link again.

List Of Gods That Died And Resurrected After 3 Days - Education - Nairaland​


Oh yes, and Jesus in the Bible was not referred to as a Roman God.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Subduction Zone said:
Good night. And I rechecked that list. It only says that they were resurrected. It did not say "three days". Where did you get that from? Not even Jesus in the Bible was dead for three days.
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Look again. Here is the link provided: right in the post it says resurrected after three days -- all those "gods" listed -- talk about nonsense. @It Aint Necessarily So post #2038 -
"It was likely patterned after other gods who died for three days and then were resurrected in imitation of the dying sun during winter solstice sitting still for three days before reversing direction and heading north again. It is at this time that sunrises are as southeastern as possible, and daylight is shortest in the northern hemisphere.
List Of Gods That Died And Resurrected After 3 Days - Education - Nigeria"
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
Look again. Here is the link provided: right in the post it says resurrected after three days -- all those "gods" listed -- talk about nonsense. @It Aint Necessarily So post #2038 -
"It was likely patterned after other gods who died for three days and then were resurrected in imitation of the dying sun during winter solstice sitting still for three days before reversing direction and heading north again. It is at this time that sunrises are as southeastern as possible, and daylight is shortest in the northern hemisphere.
List Of Gods That Died And Resurrected After 3 Days - Education - Nigeria"
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Unfortunately he just read the title too.
 
It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
spiritual relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
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That is how many use the word, which is why it appears as such in a dictionary, but there are problems there. First, we don't know that anything exists which is not physical. As far as we know, there is only nature, and nature is physical, that is, matter, energy, and force dance through time in space. There may be nothing else, and we have insufficient evidence to conclude that there is anything else.

Let's not confuse material and physical. Physical refers to those five elements (matter, energy, force, space, and time), whereas material only refers to matter. The mind is not material. The brain is. But the mind is physical if it is a manifestation of these five and an epiphenomenon of the material brain. We don't know that that is the case, but we have no reason to think otherwise apart from a propensity of the mind to understand what I call the authentic spiritual experience - connection, warmth, belonging, transcendence, awe, mystery, and gratitude - in terms of spirits. There is a tendency for those undergoing such experiences to express that they have seen God, or that they have experienced some aspect of reality out there that is more than their own minds.

If that's the case - that the only reality is nature and that nature is physical - then "human spirit" and "soul," if they refer to anything, refer to aspects of physical reality, of brain and mind. The only things in my experience that those phrases might apply to is what I might call personality or human nature, which are consequences of brain activity.

It's been very helpful to me to understand reality and myself in these terms and to avoid the flights of fancy that come from attributing agency to these spiritual intuitions. I understand that experience as I do the sense of beauty or humor. When I find something funny or beautiful, I understand that that is a judgment of my mind in response to a certain type of stimulus or experience, and not a reflection of the world outside of my mind.
Trailblazer said:
The Baha'i Faith recognizes that humans have two natures, a spiritual or higher nature and a material or lower nature, because that is Reality.
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That's understood naturalistically in terms of the tripartite brain and mind, which results from the superposition of the mammalian brain onto the reptilian brain, and then the human brain onto that. The reptilian and mammalian impulses are survival instincts. We desire and fear. We desire food, water, air, mates, and to survive.

Absent the intellect, that means taking what we want without reflection or a bigger picture. But the human mind superimposes symbolic thought and higher purpose onto those and modifies them. The lion takes what it wants, including attacking zebra and mating lionesses their consent, and we don't judge it morally for that, but man has a higher nature that changes all that in those with a mature conscience.

We are cursed with multiple levels of mind generating conflicting impulses, which you've identified as base instinct and a higher nature. Freud called these the id and superego. Plato described a mounted rider, the horse being the unbridled urges and the rider being the bridle modifying and directing them.
Trailblazer said:
nobody can prove that God exists except to themselves.
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Which to me is a way of saying that one can convince oneself that gods exist in a way that they cannot show others, which is consistent with my description of interpreting spiritual experience as indicating a god.
Trailblazer said:
Anyone who lived in my skin, would not need proof, but would know God exists, and angels, but not demons.
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This tells me the cast of characters that you attribute to spiritual intuitions. Others such as the polytheists, interpret the same experience in terms of other agents. Some just say a higher force. I've eliminated all of these characters. There's just the experience and the good feeling it gives me. I'm not denying that there might be more. I'm just not willing to guess what that is, because I don't need to and find no value in guessing. Self-actualization is a type of intellectual, philosophical, and emotional evolution, and for me, that includes dismissing the cast of characters others impute to those intuitions.
 
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