Twilight

[Red Pill]

I went to see the new flick, Twilight this evening- didn't read the books.

I remember the Ann Rice books, I saw the TV programs Buffy and Angel when they were running.

What do you think the deal is with all the vampire stuff? Do you think it is a substitute for the miracle sort of beliefs that religion supplies to those who haven't faith in religion anymore? Is it some sort of substitute, for those who wish there was something more, but aren't so sure? We know the vampire stuff isn't real, but we really want to feel the wonder again?

I don't really know why they facinate me.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think it's the blend of immortality and power coupled with tragedy and angst that many find romantic, or something. It's funny how vampires are always all gothy in movies and such. If I were a vampire, I would wear rainbow suspenders and a polka dotted bow tie when I fed upon my victims.

 

[Nanda]

I read all four books, and while I found them to be somewhat entertaining, they definately left a bad taste in my mouth. What disturbs me the most about Twilight is how the main character, Bella, is in all these abusive relationships with the men in her life, and yet somehow these books are considered by many to represent a "wholesome" relationship model for teen girls because they abstain from sex. (FWIW, If you've only seen the movie, this might not be immediately apparent.)

 

[methylatedghosts]

I think it's the promise of awesome power at a horrific cost...
(depends on the person as to whether it's the drinking blood or immortality as to which is the power and which is the curse)

And it's like FH said... it's the tragedy/romance thing.

an ultimate "Be with me forever"

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I went to see the new flick, Twilight this evening- didn't read the books.

I remember the Ann Rice books, I saw the TV programs Buffy and Angel when they were running.

What do you think the deal is with all the vampire stuff? Do you think it is a substitute for the miracle sort of beliefs that religion supplies to those who haven't faith in religion anymore? Is it some sort of substitute, for those who wish there was something more, but aren't so sure? We know the vampire stuff isn't real, but we really want to feel the wonder again?

I don't really know why they facinate me.

I really recommend reading the book(s). I devoured all 4 in 3 weeks and I don't read. Lurrrved em. And the movie does an incredible job at sticking with the book. Inevitably some things were left out and underdeveloped but of course that will happen.

Reading the book will give you a WAY better idea about what their relationship means and how it is so euphoric and excruciating at the same time. Stephenie Meyer did an excellent job with the writing.

 

[life.is.ravishing]

Yeah, I haven't seen the movie, but I have read the books. They're a pretty cheesy love story, but they're cute. The major draw of these books is the romantic aspect I think. Stephanie Meyer writes the books to make every young girl wish she was "Bella."

But overall the draw of vampire stories seems to be up. I don't know if any of you remember Blood and Chocolate, but it was a book-made-movie a few years ago. Once more, I didn't see the movie, but I did read the book, and it was alright. I think the supernatural has just had a large draw these last few years, I mean, look at Harry Potter! (LOVE IT!!!!)

Anyway, I think you're right in saying people want to feel wonder again. In this day in age so much mystery has been taken out of everything, that we long to feel that mystery again. And these supernatural stories seem to be able to supply it. IMHO.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

I read all four books, and while I found them to be somewhat entertaining, they definately left a bad taste in my mouth. What disturbs me the most about Twilight is how the main character, Bella, is in all these abusive relationships with the men in her life, and yet somehow these books are considered by many to represent a "wholesome" relationship model for teen girls because they abstain from sex. (FWIW, If you've only seen the movie, this might not be immediately apparent.)

I don't agree with the whole abuse thing. Although Edward said some pretty rude crap, there was a reason for it. And it's not like Bella just took it. Jacob, on the other hand.....is kind of a big douche. I really didn't like it in Eclipse when he FORCED Bella to kiss him and held her head to him, not letting her break away.

I can see how some people might like the fact that Edward and Bella don't immediately jump each other's bones (or even after a long time, they still don't) because they attribute it to them being "wholesome."

I don't agree with that association, though. The biggest reason is because her blood is so intoxicating to him that he could just lose control and bite her. Also, he is so physically strong that he could actually kill her just by kissing her, let alone having sex with her. It wasn't until later his moral issue with premarital sex was revealed. Although he wanted to preserve that one aspect of their relationship til they were officially married, he still said he had very strong urges and temptations. And, heh, it was made VERY clear Bella's physical desires and urges to have sex. She talked about it frequently and really, really wanted it. Oh and there was no shortage of heavy make out sessions, either.

I can see how that can be a metaphor but I really think of it as part of the story...real consequences of human/vampire relations.

 

[Caladan]

What do you think the deal is with all the vampire stuff? Do you think it is a substitute for the miracle sort of beliefs that religion supplies to those who haven't faith in religion anymore? Is it some sort of substitute, for those who wish there was something more, but aren't so sure? We know the vampire stuff isn't real, but we really want to feel the wonder again?

I don't really know why they facinate me.

The main appeal was starting to take place as the Vampire genre has went through the dramatic changes from a dirty blood drinker in rags to a romantic, elegant undead, with writers like Bram Stoker and later Anne Rice.
The main appeal became beauty, the Vampire has became an embodiment of the beauty some people yarn to touch in life, the Vampire can actualize touching that essence, to experience reality with senses beyond those of humans, and to do the forbidden with grace and elegance.

In the Vampire Lestat, Gabriel, after her embrace expresses her wish to understand why there is beauty in life.

 

[Red Pill]

I think it's the promise of awesome power at a horrific cost...
(depends on the person as to whether it's the drinking blood or immortality as to which is the power and which is the curse)

And it's like FH said... it's the tragedy/romance thing.

an ultimate "Be with me forever"

1. the promise of awesome power at a horrific cost...
2. depends on the person as to whether it's the drinking blood or immortality
3. Be with me forever
Add the resurrected to perfection and beauty- it sounds like Sunday services at Christian Churches

Thanks everyone for the different points of view

 

[Red Pill]

I think it's the promise of awesome power at a horrific cost...
(depends on the person as to whether it's the drinking blood or immortality as to which is the power and which is the curse)

And it's like FH said... it's the tragedy/romance thing.

an ultimate "Be with me forever"

1. the promise of awesome power at a horrific cost
2. depends on the person as to whether it's the drinking blood or immortality
3. an ultimate "Be with me forever
Throw in the ressurection to perfection and beauty and it sounds like Easter Sunday at a Christian church!
Thanks to all for the different points of view.

 

[Makaveli]

I think Twilight is the reason the world hates America.

 

[Red Pill]

I think Twilight is the reason the world hates America.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your meaning. Could you expound some?
Thanks

 

[Nanda]

I don't agree with the whole abuse thing. Although Edward said some pretty rude crap, there was a reason for it.

Again, keeping someone confined to their house "for their own good?" Not allowing her to make her own decisions "for her own good?" I just don't think that's the sort of relationship model we should be encouraging teens to emulate.

 

[Nanda]

Anyone a fan of True Blood? That one's fun.

 

[Willamena]

I never realized how vampiric The Platters were.

Deepening shadows gather splendor as day is done
Fingers of night will soon surrender the setting sun
I count the moments, darling, til you're here with me
Together, at last, at Twilight Time.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Again, keeping someone confined to their house "for their own good?" Not allowing her to make her own decisions "for her own good?" I just don't think that's the sort of relationship model we should be encouraging teens to emulate.

Yea that part was kinda off-putting. I dunno...thinking of it from his pov, though, he was frantic and terrified to the point of doing that to her because he knew exactly what kind of danger loomed. He also knew, as did she, that she seemed to be some kind of "danger magnet" I believe was the term they used, haha.

So.....yea, I totally get you and I agree that that kind of behavior should not ever be tolerated. But within the context of just this book in particular, with the story and all, I didn't think it was abusive.

 

[Azakel]

Anyone a fan of True Blood? That one's fun.

I don't have HBO so I can't watch it. I want to, but I might have to what for the DVDs.
What about the drink TruBlood. God I wish I can't find some.

 

[Nanda]

So.....yea, I totally get you and I agree that that kind of behavior should not ever be tolerated. But within the context of just this book in particular, with the story and all, I didn't think it was abusive.

Courtly love, as beautiful a notion as it may be to some, is still kind of messed up. What's the real difference between a pedestal and a cage?

Plus, honestly (and I realize that she's a teenager, so I give it a little leeway, but still) the idea that she can't live without him, that her entire life ends if he's not around... it's a bit unhealthy. Romantic, sure, but unrealistic and not a good model for teenage girls, imho.

I think the issue here is that it became pretty apparent to me that Meyers modelled her romance after the Victorian novel - Bronte is mentioned several times - and in general, the Victorian era is not a time that we should be modelling current relationships after. :no:

Honestly, I did find the books entertaining, as I mentioned in my first post. I didn't hate them, and for an adult, capable of distinguishing between reality and fantasy, they're pretty benign. But the target audience is not adults, it's these teen girls who go to the cinema and scream "I LOVE YOU EDWARD!!!!" at the screen. And frankly, I find that a bit troubling.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Courtly love, as beautiful a notion as it may be to some, is still kind of messed up. What's the real difference between a pedestal and a cage?

Plus, honestly (and I realize that she's a teenager, so I give it a little leeway, but still) the idea that she can't live without him, that her entire life ends if he's not around... it's a bit unhealthy. Romantic, sure, but unrealistic and not a good model for teenage girls, imho.

I think the issue here is that it became pretty apparent to me that Meyers modelled her romance after the Victorian novel - Bronte is mentioned several times - and in general, the Victorian era is not a time that we should be modelling current relationships after. :no:

Honestly, I did find the books entertaining, as I mentioned in my first post. I didn't hate them, and for an adult, capable of distinguishing between reality and fantasy, they're pretty benign. But the target audience is not adults, it's these teen girls who go to the cinema and scream "I LOVE YOU EDWARD!!!!" at the screen. And frankly, I find that a bit troubling.

Yea, girls did that when I saw it, too. It was really annoying and a little disturbing. Teenage girls go bonkers over any hot guy, though. But I have seen/heard many girls say Edward is the perfect guy. Honestly, any guy is the perfect guy as far as they're concerned, as long as that guy is the next big thing.

Yea, for each book Meyer wrote she had inspirations from classic novels. Wuthering Heights was Twilight's.

The desperation in Bella did have me a little concerned. It was really intense (especially in New Moon when you see her as a complete zombie...before you learn how it affected Edward). Personally I've never experienced something like that that didn't end up severely damaging my sanity. Some people find crazy, true love, though. Like this one couple from my high school who started dating in 10th grade and still are...they're engaged now. So Bella & Edward...not the status quo by any means but that intense, crazy, right-off-the-bat love can and does happen.

But yes! I am thrilled I am not 15 now. This book would have had me in pieces.

 

[Nanda]

Some people find crazy, true love, though. Like this one couple from my high school who started dating in 10th grade and still are...they're engaged now.

Mm. I'm distrustful of this notion of "true love." My husband and I have been together since the 10th grade. We love each other very much, but there's nothing "crazy" about it. It's just a relationship that works.