Truth: either God exists or He don't.

[Subduction Zone]

That’s not true! There is compelling evidence all over the world of a massive flood. The Grand Canyon shows boundary layers very clearly.

Evidence that this happened quickly and not over <LONG TIME> is the lack of erosion in the exposed rock face.

Wrong again. But then you do not understand the evidence or even what is and what is not evidence. To start with here is a definition of scientific evidence for you:

Scientific evidence is evidence that serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and interpretable in accordance with scientific method.

To even have evidence one must first have a testable hypothesis, an idea that can be tested and shown to be wrong. What testable hypotheses do you have?

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

I see the universe, but I have yet to see a deity create anything. For that matter, I have yet to see a deity at all.

God asked Job, "where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth". You may wish to ask yourself the same question. God doesn't derive any pleasure in coming before people you and performing a magic show, just to prove how good His magical skills are. There's nothing in it for Him, He doesn't seek your approval

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

All the evidence says you are wrong.

Please present your evidence or forever hold your peace

 

[Audie]

Correct. And we can test beliefs to see if they are correct or not. You appear to be afraid to properly test your beliefs. By the way, choosing to believe something is always an irrational decision. Rational belief occurs when one is convinced by reliable evidence.

Look, he said he is afraid for his life.
I take him at his word, and suggest you
leave him alone

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Which appears to be next to nothing.

Why don't you try actually learning something about science?

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I know everything about science. Now this doesn't mean I know every scientific fact, I'm just saying I know what science is as a whole.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But you are not sticking to the facts science discovers.

Actually I am.

This is not a secular science forum. Just because we understand a bit of God’s creation (secular, like boiling & freezing points of water) does not mean the evidence points away from his existence.

Quite the contrary. Psalm 19.

But you do not understand. You only believe. If you understood you could defend your beliefs. You only have mere belief. And a verse from a book of myths is not evidence. Once again, if nature did prove the "glory of God" you could explain how, not just claim it. The Bible is the claim, it is not the evidence. The evidence tells us that the Bible is wrong if read literally.

And all science is "secular". Using that term is redundant. It is a religious forum, but the sciences can be used to show that some beliefs are irrational.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

No, we know that quickly deposited sediments cannot explain what we actually see. We know *some* places can deposit quickly, but others are very slow to deposit (Cliffs of Dover, for example).

The Earth is far, far more than 6000 years old. We even know of human civilizations older than that. And humans are a recent addition to the Earth.

My scientific knowledge tells me otherwise. We have the original sedimentary layers which God spread ot in one of His creation days. He designed them to look 4.5 billion years old, and just to confuse smart guys He caused the flood which added another bunch of layers to leave the smart guys super confused. I love His sense of humour

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

And (according to your myth) it's your evil god that decided that a sinful nature was heritable.



You ignored my point. If it's a genuine choice to not follow our 'sinful nature', then why doesn't anybody make it? If you set a test that everybody fails, then the test is inappropriate.

Nothing wrong with the test, but everything wrong with that guy who decides to rape and murder a child. Nobody forced him to do it, he chose to do it without any outside influence

 

[Subduction Zone]

My scientific knowledge tells me otherwise. We have the original sedimentary layers which God spread ot in one of His creation days. He designed them to look 4.5 billion years old, and just to confuse smart guys He caused the flood which added another bunch of layers to leave the smart guys super confused. I love His sense of humour

You have almost no scientific knowledge. You have refused to even discuss the basics which would allow you to understand why you are wrong.

By the way, you just openly claimed that God is a liar. Why would he lie? Why did he need to make the Earth look 4.5 billion years old?

EDIT: And it appears that you misspelled "humour".

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Nope, I see fine. Didn't see any god create anything.

Are you delusional?

If I could look at a Picasso painting and claim that nobody painted it because I didn't see them, then you could say that I am delusional

 

[ratiocinator]

That’s not true! There is compelling evidence all over the world of a massive flood. The Grand Canyon shows boundary layers very clearly.

I suggest you look at some real science sources. Creationists sites and sources are full of misinformation, misrepresentation and flat out falsehoods. Why do you think that pretty much every scientist that studies these subjects, of many different faiths and from many different cultures, all agree with one view and almost all the people who don't are from creationist, religious cults, that is, they have an obvious vested interest? You're doing the equivalent of believing the tobacco companies when they were the last people saying smoking was safe.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

So the bottom line is that your god is incompetent. The dude can't even provide sufficient evidence for his existence. Agreed?

Well if you shut your eyes and pretend nothing exists, I suppose you could claim lack of evidence but don't expect others who see the evidence all around to agree with you

 

[ratiocinator]

Please present your evidence or forever hold your peace

It's not my evidence and it's not a secret. Go look at any reputable (non-creationist) scientific site or book on the subject.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I know everything about science. Now this doesn't mean I know every scientific fact, I'm just saying I know what science is as a whole.

The evidence (this time in your posts) says the opposite. You appear to have no grasp of science whatsoever.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

But this just makes your god into a liar. It would have been perfectly possible to create a functioning planet and ecosystem without the plentiful evidence that it was very old (radioactive dating, geology, and so on) and that life evolved (fossils in the ground, DNA evidence, and so on), the same goes for the universe. Take the problem (for creationists) of 'old light' that must have been created in the space between its supposed source and the earth, and which would have to depict events about its 'source' that never actually happened.

Your philosophy would be wonderful if God was limited by your expectations, but just suppose fro a moment that He isn't limited by the laws you invented. What if He has His own laws and He rejects yours, who wins there

 

[ratiocinator]

He designed them to look 4.5 billion years old, and just to confuse smart guys He caused the flood which added another bunch of layers to leave the smart guys super confused.

So your god is a liar and a trickster as well as being unjust.

 

[Samael_Khan]

If I could look at a Picasso painting and claim that nobody painted it because I didn't see them, then you could say that I am delusional

The reason why we know that a painting is painted by a person is because we know how painting is created. We know the techniques used. Easy-peasy.

Nobody has ever seen anybody create DNA from scratch. Nobody has seen whole worlds created either. So false equivalence on your part.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

So you know nothing of science, by the way it does not need the term "secular" added, all science is secular, use it every day, and yet feel free to attack it. That sounds like severe hypocrisy to me.

I actually believe that Christians own science, it was given to us by God who created it. We are the only true custodians of it so we protect it's integrity for all future generations. I believe the secular enemies hijacked true science and bastardised it, in an effort to conceal the truth

 

[Subduction Zone]

If I could look at a Picasso painting and claim that nobody painted it because I didn't see them, then you could say that I am delusional

Yes, because we know why a painting is a painting. But it appears that you cannot tell the difference between this:

And this:

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

No, you do not know that. And you are back to claiming that God is a liar again. When you die you should be very very worried. Do you think that God will appreciate you constantly calling him a liar?

Where did I call Him a liar, I think you have confused me with you

 

[ratiocinator]

Your philosophy would be wonderful if God was limited by your expectations, but just suppose fro a moment that He isn't limited by the laws you invented. What if He has His own laws and He rejects yours, who wins there

It's not a question of who wins, it's a question of whether this god of yours is being just and fair towards its creation. So far, what you have said suggests that you believe in an evil, unjust, lying, trickster god.