Truth: either God exists or He don't.

[Polymath257]

Nobody said Noah's flood deposited fossils over millions of years. We know in fact that the earth is around 6000 years old and the flood caused layers of sediment to form quickly but this fooled secular scientists into to thinking that it took millions of years through slow and gradual build up

No, we know that quickly deposited sediments cannot explain what we actually see. We know *some* places can deposit quickly, but others are very slow to deposit (Cliffs of Dover, for example).

The Earth is far, far more than 6000 years old. We even know of human civilizations older than that. And humans are a recent addition to the Earth.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Oh so false. And our conversation is overwhelming evidence for that. You rely on "secular science" every day of your life. Computers run on "secular science" as does almost anything that you can think of. Odds are that you do not even understand what the word "secular" means.

Let me help you with this, computers were discovered by Christian scientists and they run according to God's rules since He created them. Mankind never invented a single thing, all we can do is discover what's already there. we don't invent or make or cause Gods laws of physics to act the way we want them to. All we can do is act according to Gods laws. it's like God plays the tune and we dance and He refuses to play any any requests

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

But, as you said, it is in our nature to sin, so it isn't a choice and so we shouldn't be judged for it. We can tell that it isn't a genuine choice anyway in your myth because it says that everybody sins and if it were a genuine choice then at least some people would make it. If god doesn't want us to sin, it shouldn't have given us a sinful nature - this isn't rocket science, why would a god be so dumb?

God didn't give us a sin nature, we inherited it from our parents, and it's a lie to say we have to sin. we choose to sin because we love sin and hate God.
We sin fully knowing that it's wrong to do so, we have the chance to walk away but we actually choose to sin so we have nobody to blame except for ourselves, and God must punish evil or He wouldn't be good.
We expect a judge to punish a child rapist murderer, but we hate God when He punishes us for our crimes, this is why He calls the unrepentant sinners hypocrites

 

[ratiocinator]

God didn't give us a sin nature, we inherited it from our parents...

And (according to your myth) it's your evil god that decided that a sinful nature was heritable.

...and it's a lie to say we have to sin. we choose to sin because we love sin and hate God.

You ignored my point. If it's a genuine choice to not follow our 'sinful nature', then why doesn't anybody make it? If you set a test that everybody fails, then the test is inappropriate.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

And you say this while using a computer? Do you use GPS? How about take a vaccine?

The *same* theories that determine how computers, GPS and vaccines work ALSO describe the Big Bang and evolution. You cannot separate them.

If you look at the technological progress of the last 4 centuries as opposed to the thousands of years when religion was in control, you can compare their 'fruits'. People are healthier, live longer, have fewer diseases, are able to communicate faster, are cured from diseases, etc. The list goes on and on. This is because of 'secular' science.

For example, General Relativity is our basic description of gravity, space, and time. It is the foundation of the Big Bang cosmology and is also crucial to the functionality of GPS. And, in both subjects, it makes testable predictions that can be verified by observation. For the Big Bang, those tests range from the red shifts of galaxies (observed), to the abundances of light elements (observed), to the cosmic background radiation (observed). For the latter, the precise form of it was predicted (Planck radiation) and that has been verified to one part in 100,000. But, the *variances* from the Planck radiation were also predicted and fit the 'theory'.

This is how scientific theories are verified: they make predictions for new observations and we see if those predictions are met in the real world. This is a form of 'prophecy', but it is far, far more accurate than any religious prophecy has ever been.

I can also talk about the range of evidence for evolution, but the Big Bang is more in my area of specialty. But for evolution, everything from the fossils, to genetics, to which species have which properties (say, type of immune system), to the ways species have been *observed* to change over time. Evolution is one of the scientific descriptions that is MOST supported by specific evidence across living species.

It's obvious you will never convince me with secualr theories and I will never convince you that God created all things that exist.
I can explain all of your supposed evidence in a simple yet true statement that God created everything in it's mature state. This includes the first man Adam, who secular scientists would have concluded that he was 33 years old on the day he was created.
You can apply this same principal to all of Gods creation, the trees were fully grown and the rocks looked very old when they were created. The stars and planets looked like they have been spreading out into space for 14.7 billion years.
God is not limited by mans imagination, He holds the universe in the palm of His hand. The problem with sinful man is his ego. He thinks the laws of physics must obey his logic and remain within the perimeters he sets but Gods laughs at such fools when He sends a curved ball their way

 

[Samael_Khan]

The only way you could have missed His creation, is if you were born totally blind

Nope, I see fine. Didn't see any god create anything.

Are you delusional?

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Maybe you should have learned a little more than what you get from only one year of study.

Did you actually stop and listen to what the professor was telling you? Or did you simply decide he was an idiot because he disagreed with you? Maybe listening to an expert is a good idea?

Noah's flood didn't happen (at least, not as a global flood). Nothing in geology points to that.

You choose to remain uneducated about science and prefer your mythology. That is your right, of course. But don't claim that science doesn't actually have evidence to back it up. It does. Mountains worth.

The question here is, what qualifies as evidence. Secular science can simply deny solid evidence because it doesn't fit their narrative. They say there was no world wide flood, because it doesn't fit our model. They never allow the evidence to be presented and debated.
Every ancient culture describes a world wide flood, but modern secular scientists can't accept it because it would expose their agenda.

 

[Samael_Khan]

God holds saving knowledge, He doesn't hold all knowledge from the reprobate or they wouldn't know how to feed themselves. We were talking about salvation, not cooking spaghetti for the flying spaghetti monster

So the bottom line is that your god is incompetent. The dude can't even provide sufficient evidence for his existence. Agreed?

 

[ratiocinator]

I can explain all of your supposed evidence in a simple yet true statement that God created everything in it's mature state. This includes the first man Adam, who secular scientists would have concluded that he was 33 years old on the day he was created.
You can apply this same principal to all of Gods creation, the trees were fully grown and the rocks looked very old when they were created. The stars and planets looked like they have been spreading out into space for 14.7 billion years.

But this just makes your god into a liar. It would have been perfectly possible to create a functioning planet and ecosystem without the plentiful evidence that it was very old (radioactive dating, geology, and so on) and that life evolved (fossils in the ground, DNA evidence, and so on), the same goes for the universe. Take the problem (for creationists) of 'old light' that must have been created in the space between its supposed source and the earth, and which would have to depict events about its 'source' that never actually happened.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

You mean that one side has the facts, the observations, the technology, the mathematics, and the evidence, while the other side has emotional manipulation and mind control?

The way I see it, one side has the facts and the other side has accusations. I will never be convinced that material is the only thing that exists in the universe. I know for a fact that things like happiness, sadness, love, hate and the spiritual realm all exist. I will never accept that we are some kind of evolved robots, without any purpose for existing.

 

[Wrangler]

All the evidence says you are wrong.

That’s not true! There is compelling evidence all over the world of a massive flood. The Grand Canyon shows boundary layers very clearly.

Evidence that this happened quickly and not over <LONG TIME> is the lack of erosion in the exposed rock face.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have summed up my point perfectly, just apply why you said above to secular science and you have summed up everything i know about secular science.

See secular science can't withstand independent scrutiny, this is why it refuses to debate true scientists.

So you know nothing of science, by the way it does not need the term "secular" added, all science is secular, use it every day, and yet feel free to attack it. That sounds like severe hypocrisy to me.

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Since I also do not believe in the 'lake of fire', nor in Satan, why would you think this matters to me?

I do not agree with your mythology. So the threats of your deity mean no more to me than the threats of Zeus do to you.

What we believe or choose not to believe can never change reality, truth or the facts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nobody said Noah's flood deposited fossils over millions of years. We know in fact that the earth is around 6000 years old and the flood caused layers of sediment to form quickly but this fooled secular scientists into to thinking that it took millions of years through slow and gradual build up

No, you do not know that. And you are back to claiming that God is a liar again. When you die you should be very very worried. Do you think that God will appreciate you constantly calling him a liar?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know the basics, it's a simple matter of secular science starting with a false primes then refusing to debate outside of their false primes perimeters or commonly known as circular reasoning

You seriously do not. You see I do not think that you are a liar. Your statement that I just quoted would be a lie if you understood the basics.

By the way, you used the wrong term "primes" are numbers without any rational roots, such as 2, 3, 5, 7 etc..

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Your account has zero credibility.

For you to have found what you claim
is to claim you have the key to the greatest
single scientific discovery of all time.

But you just walked away.

Imagine the power in proving the flood!
The world wide sensation, the souls saved
by conversions! I would convert too!

Go back and prove it.

Let me guess your excuse for not going.
A bulldozer ate the site?
Your foot hurts?

I bet I know. Them dirty atheist "scientists"
won't b accept it coz it proves god.

The truth of this matter is stranger than the fictional version. Let me assure you the s m i t h s o n i a n are holding tons of damning evidence hidden away. Just mentioning them and this thing could cost me my life.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let me help you with this, computers were discovered by Christian scientists and they run according to God's rules since He created them. Mankind never invented a single thing, all we can do is discover what's already there. we don't invent or make or cause Gods laws of physics to act the way we want them to. All we can do is act according to Gods laws. it's like God plays the tune and we dance and He refuses to play any any requests

That does not matter even if true. They were built with "secular science". And no, they do not run according to "God's rules". God has not written any rules when it comes to physics. Every day of your life you use and rely on "secular science". You better throw those computers away.

By the way, what we know about computers relies largely on the work of one man. You might want to read this:

Alan Turing | Humanist Heritage

 

[Pilgrim Soldier]

Sigh. The word "facile" is so inadequate.

You know nothing about geology, yet you
know more than every scientist on earth.

Does that really sound reasonable, or even sane?

Granted, it sounds insane to the indoctrinated

 

[Subduction Zone]

What we believe or choose not to believe can never change reality, truth or the facts.

Correct. And we can test beliefs to see if they are correct or not. You appear to be afraid to properly test your beliefs. By the way, choosing to believe something is always an irrational decision. Rational belief occurs when one is convinced by reliable evidence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Granted, it sounds insane to the indoctrinated

The voice of experience.