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Truth: either God exists or He don't.

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
We are all born bent towards total depravity wickedness at conception, but God doesn't punish us because of our nature. He punishes us for the actual sin we commit during a life of wanted sin and rebellion.

But, as you said, it is in our nature to sin, so it isn't a choice and so we shouldn't be judged for it. We can tell that it isn't a genuine choice anyway in your myth because it says that everybody sins and if it were a genuine choice then at least some people would make it. If god doesn't want us to sin, it shouldn't have given us a sinful nature - this isn't rocket science, why would a god be so dumb?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
we never blinded ourselves to the facts, the fact is secular science has done nothing but present a bunch of unsupported theories and pushed them as fact using the old circular reasoning method which is fool proof

And you say this while using a computer? Do you use GPS? How about take a vaccine?

The *same* theories that determine how computers, GPS and vaccines work ALSO describe the Big Bang and evolution. You cannot separate them.

If you look at the technological progress of the last 4 centuries as opposed to the thousands of years when religion was in control, you can compare their 'fruits'. People are healthier, live longer, have fewer diseases, are able to communicate faster, are cured from diseases, etc. The list goes on and on. This is because of 'secular' science.

For example, General Relativity is our basic description of gravity, space, and time. It is the foundation of the Big Bang cosmology and is also crucial to the functionality of GPS. And, in both subjects, it makes testable predictions that can be verified by observation. For the Big Bang, those tests range from the red shifts of galaxies (observed), to the abundances of light elements (observed), to the cosmic background radiation (observed). For the latter, the precise form of it was predicted (Planck radiation) and that has been verified to one part in 100,000. But, the *variances* from the Planck radiation were also predicted and fit the 'theory'.

This is how scientific theories are verified: they make predictions for new observations and we see if those predictions are met in the real world. This is a form of 'prophecy', but it is far, far more accurate than any religious prophecy has ever been.

I can also talk about the range of evidence for evolution, but the Big Bang is more in my area of specialty. But for evolution, everything from the fossils, to genetics, to which species have which properties (say, type of immune system), to the ways species have been *observed* to change over time. Evolution is one of the scientific descriptions that is MOST supported by specific evidence across living species.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I wasted over a year studying geology, I left after an argument with the lecturer. He wasn't able substantiate the theory of sedimentary rock formations. I discovered fossil fragments of the same animal in different sections of sediment which were supposedly deposited millions of years apart.
I asserted that the fragments were deposited during one geological even known as Noah's flood but the lecturer wasn't allowed to accept the clear evidence as he was not at liberty to step outside of secular science's safety bubble known as circular reasoning

Maybe you should have learned a little more than what you get from only one year of study.

Did you actually stop and listen to what the professor was telling you? Or did you simply decide he was an idiot because he disagreed with you? Maybe listening to an expert is a good idea?

Noah's flood didn't happen (at least, not as a global flood). Nothing in geology points to that.

You choose to remain uneducated about science and prefer your mythology. That is your right, of course. But don't claim that science doesn't actually have evidence to back it up. It does. Mountains worth.
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
There are only two opposing world views, one possesses the facts and the other has endless theories which change daily. The choice is a no brainier

You mean that one side has the facts, the observations, the technology, the mathematics, and the evidence, while the other side has emotional manipulation and mind control?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Yep, ask a question then research the answer using the scientific method known as circular reasoning. This is secular science in a nut shell

It looks like circular reasoning until you realize previous researchers have verified things before. So we don't need to verify *again* that motion produces red shifts in light. We know that. We don't need to verify that, barring non-conformities, upper geological layers formed after lower ones. We don't have to verify that radioactive decay can determine the dates of events in the past. ALL of these have been verified many times before. We can now use those facts to learn MORE things.

That isn't circular reasoning: it's building on what we already know.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Everyone hates God, before He saves them and those who are never saved continue to hate Him for all eternity. Why would anyone who is saved from an eternity in the lake of fire not love Him and love everything He does and stands for.

Since I also do not believe in the 'lake of fire', nor in Satan, why would you think this matters to me?

I do not agree with your mythology. So the threats of your deity mean no more to me than the threats of Zeus do to you.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I wasted over a year studying geology, I left after an argument with the lecturer. He wasn't able substantiate the theory of sedimentary rock formations. I discovered fossil fragments of the same animal in different sections of sediment which were supposedly deposited millions of years apart.
I asserted that the fragments were deposited during one geological even known as Noah's flood but the lecturer wasn't allowed to accept the clear evidence as he was not at liberty to step outside of secular science's safety bubble known as circular reasoning

Your account has zero credibility.

For you to have found what you claim
is to claim you have the key to the greatest
single scientific discovery of all time.

But you just walked away.

Imagine the power in proving the flood!
The world wide sensation, the souls saved
by conversions! I would convert too!

Go back and prove it.

Let me guess your excuse for not going.
A bulldozer ate the site?
Your foot hurts?

I bet I know. Them dirty atheist "scientists"
won't b accept it coz it proves god.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
How does Noah's flood explain fossil fragments deposited over millions of years?
Nobody said Noah's flood deposited fossils over millions of years. We know in fact that the earth is around 6000 years old and the flood caused layers of sediment to form quickly but this fooled secular scientists into to thinking that it took millions of years through slow and gradual build up
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Nobody said Noah's flood deposited fossils over millions of years. We know in fact that the earth is around 6000 years old and the flood caused layers of sediment to form quickly but this fooled secular scientists into to thinking that it took millions of years through slow and gradual build up

Sigh. The word "facile" is so inadequate.

You know nothing about geology, yet you
know more than every scientist on earth.

Does that really sound reasonable, or even sane?
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
You are contradicting yourself. You said that God deliberately withholds information from people and makes them blind. Now you are saying that Rebellion and Sin makes them blind.

I am being logical, you are not. That is why you are calling things facts that you have insufficient evidence for.
God holds saving knowledge, He doesn't hold all knowledge from the reprobate or they wouldn't know how to feed themselves. We were talking about salvation, not cooking spaghetti for the flying spaghetti monster
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
We know in fact that the earth is around 6000 years old and the flood caused layers of sediment to form quickly but this fooled secular scientists into to thinking that it took millions of years through slow and gradual build up

All the evidence says you are wrong.
 

Wrangler

Ask And You Will Receive
The science side almost has a monopoly on them.

But you are not sticking to the facts science discovers.

You rely on "secular science" every day of your life. Computers run on "secular science" as does almost anything that you can think of. Odds are that you do not even understand what the word "secular" means.

This is not a secular science forum. Just because we understand a bit of God’s creation (secular, like boiling & freezing points of water) does not mean the evidence points away from his existence.

Quite the contrary. Psalm 19.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
Nope, you don't even know what circular reasoning . You really need to learn the basics. It is no wonder that you have so many false beliefs.

Researching is the opposite of circular reasoning. Your problem may be that you limit your "research" to the Bible and lying groups. Relying only on the Bible is circular reasoning. The Bible is the claim, it is not the evidence. At the most the Bible can only refute itself, and it actually does that by self contradiction.
You have summed up my point perfectly, just apply why you said above to secular science and you have summed up everything i know about secular science.

See secular science can't withstand independent scrutiny, this is why it refuses to debate true scientists.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
This is not a secular science forum. Just because we understand a bit of God’s creation (secular, like boiling & freezing points of water) does not mean the evidence points away from his existence.

Well, it points away from some literal interpretations of the bible (six day, 6000 years ago creation, special creation as opposed to evolution) but generally speaking, it has nothing to say about the existence or otherwise of any god(s).

There is no such thing as specifically secular science, science is a secular discipline (not connected with religious or spiritual matters), full stop.
 

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
Sorry, you have no facts. The science side almost has a monopoly on them. Again, it is time to learn the basics.
I know the basics, it's a simple matter of secular science starting with a false primes then refusing to debate outside of their false primes perimeters or commonly known as circular reasoning
 
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