Trusting women and love

[Epic Beard Man]

During my own post break up situation I recently learned that my former significant other is deciding to see someone else. Without going into too much detail it seems that my former significant other decides to move on so soon and onto another person. Considering this individual expressed being in love with me and initally instigated the phrase in our relationship, I think its quite odd someone who was in love could move on so quickly. I was recently told through text message that "I give a "sh*t about you, but I just act like I don't" yet this individual can move on so quickly despite the things I've done to try and make a situation work (despite her issues concerning her sexual assault/abuse in her former relationships).

Now I'm not going to rehash old news, but it just proves at least in the dating world the cultural climate among some women and even some older and supposed "mature women" that love is just a temporal feeling. Ironically I always try to encourage some of my friends in their failing relationships to give love a try in another situation with a different person and to be optimistic, but as I realize my situation along with several other situations with my co-workers and other friends, I'm starting to realize that there exist among women in California, a phenomena where love is used either as a crutch or a momentary feeling and not necessarily something that is really building a relationship around.

For example a fellow registered nurse named "Jose" recently was terminated from my hospital for threatening an EMT to stay away from his wife (while at home mind you) because he (Jose) found out that while he was at home taking care of his two babies, his wife was philandering with the EMT after work and also sexting each other. Jose was terminated and his wife still works on the same shift with the man she decided to cheat on Jose with.

An EMT I'll call "Ernesto" an EMT turned registered nurse was cheating on his wife with a Starbucks barista who I knew and befriended long time ago. I even told this young lady after finding out she was seeing this guy who is married that it is wrong and she ought to break it off, continued to see him. What made this situation worse was while they were having sexual relations, instead of a motel/hotel, they decided to do it in the bed Ernesto and his wife sleeps in and to put salt on the wounds, this young girl occasionally would tuck Ernesto's kids in while she would stay over at his house while his wife worked a night shift.

It just seems for me as a new bachlor considering the climate around me that my own trust issues are apparent. Dating is now a scary reality but unfortunately my trust in women at least the ones in California. Sometimes I wish it was the 40's where the value of family was of value perhaps the only thing I agree with conservatives on.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Are you suggesting men don't say they love women and then change at some point, or that men don't cheat on women?

 

[Sunstone]

EBM, women are just as trustworthy as men when it comes to love and relationships -- it's hard for both sexes to stay honest and ethical in these matters. People are ruthless in their pursuit of pleasure. Love and sex are challenges equally to both sexes.

 

[Kirran]

It can well be easy to think that the other sex is the one with these kinds of "issues", cos that's what you're confronted with more as a heterosexual person. But I'm with Sunstone, you find trust issues, commitment issues, different views about the meaning of love, sex and relationships, across the board.

 

[Jumi]

Though it was long ago, two of my previous ex's had moved on just as we broke up. One of them kind of reminds me of your situation, almost verbatim the same words. Don't take it to heart. Some people just move on differently. I assume you're a monogamist like me, so you just got to find a keeper. Probably someone who has deeper interests that are similar to yours is a good choice.

 

[Jumi]

There's also the folks you rarely hear about because it doesn't make noise, who've stuck together since they were young and are now retired. I don't think it's an impossibility now or ever has been.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have come to learn to reign in my expectations of faithfulness to promises made.

Promises are restrictions. They are difficult to maintain along time, and usually lead to frustration or worse when the attempt is made.

Heatlhy relationships, it seems to me, involve mainly being at peace with the free expression of one's significant other vocations. Mutual encouragement and inspiration definitely happen, but it is dangerous to read too much on one's role over the other person's traits and behavior. A good partner is mainly a good substract to that free expression, not a decisive cause.

 

[Mindmaster]

It just seems for me as a new bachlor considering the climate around me that my own trust issues are apparent. Dating is now a scary reality but unfortunately my trust in women at least the ones in California. Sometimes I wish it was the 40's where the value of family was of value perhaps the only thing I agree with conservatives on.

Suggestion: Move. Moving is cheaper than dealing with a future divorce, or financial hardship with bad fit. Go to an area with a higher density of traditional women -- you have them in Cali if you go north.

While I think you should think anyway you want, where liberalism is useless is the relationship space. You don't want a liberal girl even if you _are_ a liberal. You want a loyal one that wants a long term relationship and guards sexual access with a set of heavily earned standards not a "woman" that gives the milk before you buy the cow, so to speak. The closest to a liberal you should get is a right-leaning libertarian if you want it to be anything more than passing time.

Also, date older if possible: 25+ and 35+ are critical points in most women's lives. A 25+ that isn't looking to settle down for children and what not is a whacko. At 35+ they're too old to bother with. (Mind you I say this being 10 years older than that.) Child rearing becomes harder with age, a good one will know that and be on to get that done earlier rather than later. If her bio clock isn't ticking by say 28 she's broken and never can be a stable life partner. That bio clock regulates all sorts of things and even the relationship you'd have with her. If you want a keeper you want women who want children and want to build a household, not the ones that want to party like they're 19 for eternity.

Important things to know:

1) Look for women with few sexual partners and long term relationships. This is their pattern, you want this. If their longest relationship is in months, they're broken. That works when you're a teenager not an adult.

2) Be aware of too much focus on careers. Women usually have to put them down to rear kids, they should be expecting that downtime and be OK with it. If the career is too important the "family" and the loyalty it inspires doesn't happen.

3) Sex too early. If you don't know her awhile this is a serious red flag. She's too easy or thinks sex is like eating. She should make you earn that, it shouldn't be something you do after some beers either. In combo with either of the above, major red flag... Get out of there man!

4) Don't accept second or third best. Focus on your career and hobbies if there is no good prospect. All relationships cost something, you don't want to let the broken women break you.

 

[Kirran]

Just to ensure that we all know there is diversity of views on RF regarding every possible topic, I'm gonna put it out there that I disagree with pretty much every single thing that @Mindmaster just said

 

[Mindmaster]

Just to ensure that we all know there is diversity of views on RF regarding every possible topic, I'm gonna put it out there that I disagree with pretty much every single thing that @Mindmaster just said

You can, but are you married for 20 years? I got married young because I knew what I wanted, but I was picky like this because I knew I'd have to be.

Just speaking from experience man... I've had my baddies until I found the right one... I had to learn from the school of ye olde hard knocks. The no liberals thing isn't really an absolute -- for example there are some women who like liberal ideology but prefer to live very traditionally. They're OK too... it's just rare to find that and you have to vet them even more.

 

[Kirran]

You can, but are you married for 20 years? I got married young because I knew what I wanted, but I was picky like this because I knew I'd have to be.

Just speaking from experience man... I've had my baddies until I found the right one... I had to learn from the school of ye olde hard knocks. The no liberals thing isn't really an absolute -- for example there are some women who like liberal ideology but prefer to live very traditionally. They're OK too... it's just rare to find that and you have to vet them even more.

I haven't! But I can look at my parents' example, for example, as well as my own shorter experiences in this field.

 

[Loviatar]

I think most of Mindmaster's advice is good actually, looking for personal conservatism and veering away from highly career-focused types who aren't likely to be interested in a family is sound given the OP's concerns. But, the political bit seems a little wonky.

In my experience there are a ton of people in the US who identify as center-left and are personally conservative. While I've seen plenty of ideation of traditional lifestyles from the modern American right, I haven't seen much in the way of actually living that out for the under-35 set. Many seem to be punk rock types trying hard to be edgy, attracted by the movement's populist tone and not really motivated by the same concerns as the generally-older Religious Right. This is colored by region, of course. As normies by definition hew closely to accepted wisdom and social norms, that'll probably trend right-wing in red states where it likely trends center-left in most blue ones, the inverse being where edgy radical types go in both cases. I find many center-leftists here are people who would be considered centrists or even one-nation conservatives in Europe, who vote Democrat more out of things like environmental protection/universal healthcare/anti-bigotry outlooks than personal libertinism, bearing in mind that America is a more culturally conservative country than most of Western Europe as well.

Depending on where in California you are, your culture may have libertinism basically ingrained in it though, regardless of political affiliation. The Bay Area is a hectic and very career-focused area, and LA markets itself on rampant hedonism. So, moving isn't out of the question if you honestly can't find anyone. But, there are gems even in the darkest mine. Joining social clubs where you're likely to find people compatible with you seems like the best option for now, a church is the first go-to I'd suggest.

 

[Mindmaster]

I haven't! But I can look at my parents' example, for example, as well as my own shorter experiences in this field.

It goes without saying but it's just a probability matrix.

There just isn't the space in the forum to really drill down on the details, so while what I say may be over-generalization on appearance it's actually a simplification of "avoid these 200 things... "

 

[Mindmaster]

I think most of Mindmaster's advice is good actually, looking for personal conservatism and veering away from highly career-focused types who aren't likely to be interested in a family is sound given the OP's concerns. But, the political bit seems a little wonky.

It's not really about "liberalism" being the enemy, to clarify, it's about personal values. Those values aren't conductive to life long relationships unless the person is only lightly invested in them in the personal space. As I stated earlier, there are exceptions to that rule but they shouldn't be sought after it's like trying to find water in the desert.

You can, for example, go to government sites to get factual data on divorce rates. This leaves it out of the realm of my personal opinion. (Which is helpful, but not as useful...) You want to wife shop in these areas... If the areas have high divorce rates and large percentages of single parents these are the no-go zones. Avoid like plague... Doing your homework now saves you a mint, literally. You can find pockets of the good ones based on political or religious affiliations and the types of careers they purse. For example, good women are more likely to be accountants, doctors, dentists, lawyers, and the like. Those professions tend to draw more conservative or balanced mindsets (center right) by accident.

There are those gems, but you can also spend your time digging for the rest of your life and find nothing. You need to strike where the ore is visible or you have to spend considerably more time. Part of finding the right one is being in the right place at the right time... You can't control the time, but you can control the place. Hence, my initial recommendation...

There is no irrelevant data in such important decisions, fear nothing and use it all.

 

[Kirran]

It goes without saying but it's just a probability matrix.

There just isn't the space in the forum to really drill down on the details, so while what I say may be over-generalization on appearance it's actually a simplification of "avoid these 200 things... "

THAT video! Honestly I think the whole approach is steeped in misogynistic objectification.

 

[Mindmaster]

THAT video! Honestly I think the whole approach is steeped in misogynistic objectification.

Nah, more that it was intended to be humorous and is. His wife is taping it and laughing in the background.

Though, I don't fear judging on appearance. Hotter women make cuter kids and grandkids.

Keep the standards high.

 

[Orbit]

I'm liberal, have a career, and a great marriage, fwiw. I also was older than 35 when I got married. I'm with @Kirran about disagreeing 100% with everything @Mindmaster says.

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm liberal, have a career, and a great marriage, fwiw. I also was older than 35 when I got married. I'm with @Kirran about disagreeing 100% with everything @Mindmaster says.

It's possible, just less likely. After 35, kids are out the door too. (Or, just exceedingly difficult and expensive to obtain.) Anyone is free to disagree, but I have no skin in the game. As stated before, my commentary is actually a reduction of a much bigger and difficult to remember set of guidelines. I never mean these things to be absolutes, just points of caution.If anyone wants to take them as absolutes, it's their fault. I've already disclaimed that. These are markers for trouble, they are hints that require more intensive data collection before committing.

I'm just under the opinion that a younger aged virile man doesn't have to reduce standards to appease the crazies. Why start at 50% of perfection when you can have 80% or more right out the door? That's all I was getting at... Politically, I'm not affiliated with anyone - I consider myself neither Republican or Democrat and vote with the issues. Success is about risk reduction and all of my commentary has been along that lines. I'm sure liberal women don't want to hear it, but my opinion of liberal men is nearly the same. Bleeding heart leftism is terrible for the home environment in most cases and it's not my opinion, it's the values they espouse themselves.

Past 35, you're mostly taking the leftovers and I don't mean that to be cruel. They are single moms, divorcees, or toxic in most cases. If they are men it's much the same story... (My judgement isn't based on sex, it's just that this is male POV because of the OP and what forum this resides in.) Everything is a selection criteria and the morality or outrage of it amounts to nothing. Some people win the lottery, but probability is math not opinion. Mindset, profession, appearance, and everything else are valid selection criteria and must be fully considered. Pretending like that doesn't happen is just blatant misinformation. Your odds of getting a divorce are higher if you've already been divorced. Second (And Third) Marriages: Destined for Divorce? | HuffPost That makes getting involved with a divorcee a more risky proposition... Most of what I've said is about "risk management"... If a woman is off by one of the criteria (except for the too many men in short periods) it's not too big of a deal. The guidelines are simply to mitigate risk to the suitor...

 

[Kirran]

My mother had me at 41, although certainly child-bearing health declines with age.

I think approaching women as commodities and appraising and judging their suitability is probably not a good way to go about cultivating healthy relationships though.

 

[Mindmaster]

My mother had me at 41, although certainly child-bearing health declines with age.

I think approaching women as commodities and appraising and judging their suitability is probably not a good way to go about cultivating healthy relationships though.

I'm just honest about that fact, but everyone does it. We _have_ to. There are certainly a few gems in what might look like a coal pile, hell I found one myself. BUUUUT, if I had to do it all again I would do exactly as I stated. I would move to an area conductive to finding the relationships I want. I want loyalty, a keeper, and someone whom I can build a household with a few rugrats with. I'm holding them to the very expectations I keep for myself. That means for my 20 something aged version of myself I'd move to a more conservative area with women whom are child-bearing capable, and whatnot.

We are all commodities -- our entire relationship status is a value proposition. Do you bring enough of X, Y, Z to keep the future misses happy? Men evaluate women the same way - we're looking for pretty ones, smart ones, and a woman of high values because we don't want ugly looking kids who can't graduate high school and have no sense of tact. We're also evaluating women on appearance not only for kids but also grand kids. This stuff is hard-wired biological imperative type stuff, not so much things we make decisions on.