Trump is threatening "socialist hell."

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's interesting that in his stump speeches these last few days, Trump is focusing on threatening that a Biden presidency will turn America socialist, like Venezuela and other failed states.

Yet, the US next door neighbour to the north, Canada, while considerably to the left of the US, is considered to be the second-best country in the world in which to live for those who want to run their own businesses, and enjoy a decent quality of life (the US places 7th). The 17 best countries in the world for people who want to run their own businesses — and enjoy a high quality of life

What terrifies Americans about the state having some part in helping citizens when no other help is available, or the state having something to say about what corporate capital may NOT be permitted to get away with?

 

[Sand Dancer]

They don't use the democratic countries, but only the dictatorships and third world countries to use as a comparison. Dominionists/Christian Nationalists think that a theocracy has to be in place before Jesus can return. They know that folks in countries with a healthy safety net in place don't tend to go to church. Uncomfortable people look at churches. They see their demise and sadly have to force the issue or outright lie because Christianity is declining. White Christianity is now a minority in the US. They hate that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What terrifies Americans about the state having some part in helping citizens when no other help is available, or the state having something to say about what corporate capital may NOT be permitted to get away with?

Other than Cold War programing I have no idea. But even that doesn't seem to explain it, because it's like a "Fear the Socialists.2" that has associated any state spending or aid with Stalin or Mao (or Venezuela because that one gets thrown around A LOT).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lots of Americans are also terrified of being given something they didn't have to grind away their life at work to get. And if someone gets it easier, because "I had it harder and had to walk both ways uphill in the snow then **** 'em."
It's a very toxic place.

 

[Watchmen]

Socialist policies will undoubtedly raise my taxes and take hard earned money out of my pocket. I don’t like that. It’s really that simple.

 

[Stevicus]

What terrifies Americans about the state having some part in helping citizens when no other help is available, or the state having something to say about what corporate capital may NOT be permitted to get away with?

I think it goes back to the various Red Scares we've had in the past. I've grown up with people who have had an ongoing, lifelong obsession with Communism. I even remember people who thought the Beatles were a Communist plot. This kind of thinking gets ingrained in Americans from birth - just as I was, until I learned to undo my programming and think for myself.

But I understand where it comes from and how it happens.

Some people see socialism as just giving away "free stuff" to slackers and freeloaders. That's not really what socialism is, but a lot of people see it that way.

Then there are those who fear giving the government too much power just on principle, although that can sometimes be inconsistent. A lot of conservative, free-market capitalists claim they want "Big Gov" off their backs, yet they support "Big Gov" interfering in all kinds of other things, whether it's the Patriot Act, militarized law enforcement, the war on drugs, not to mention war and intrigue all over the world.

So, as long as the state hurts people, they're happy. If the state ever helps people, they get upset. It's kind of weird, in a way.

 

[Lyndon]

Socialist policies will undoubtedly raise my taxes and take hard earned money out of my pocket. I don’t like that. It’s really that simple.

Aren't you so fortunate to be earning over 400,000 a year, I say you quit complaining!!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's interesting that in his stump speeches these last few days, Trump is focusing on threatening that a Biden presidency will turn America socialist, like Venezuela and other failed states.

Yet, the US next door neighbour to the north, Canada, while considerably to the left of the US, is considered to be the second-best country in the world in which to live for those who want to run their own businesses, and enjoy a decent quality of life (the US places 7th). The 17 best countries in the world for people who want to run their own businesses — and enjoy a high quality of life

What terrifies Americans about the state having some part in helping citizens when no other help is available, or the state having something to say about what corporate capital may NOT be permitted to get away with?

Australia is a pretty decent place to live (ranked 5 in the linked article), and similarly to Canada (at a broad level) provides assistance to it's citizens around healthcare, etc.
I never can understand the seemingly common US aversion to social welfare programs (whilst understanding people can disagree with certain ways to implement them).

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Socialist policies will undoubtedly raise my taxes and take hard earned money out of my pocket. I don’t like that. It’s really that simple.

Have you looked at your countries current spending on the military and health?
Have you tried comparing that to Canada, Australia, Austria, or one of a number of other countries which are First World democracies with high standards of living and happiness?
Are you sure the real issue is socialist policy?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Some people see socialism as just giving away "free stuff" to slackers and freeloaders. That's not really what socialism is, but a lot of people see it that way.

Just on this point...I think those proposing social welfare programs need to do a better job of getting the hard economic benefits of such programs discussed.
Health is where I would start.

 

[Bear Wild]

It's interesting that in his stump speeches these last few days, Trump is focusing on threatening that a Biden presidency will turn America socialist, like Venezuela and other failed states.

Yet, the US next door neighbour to the north, Canada, while considerably to the left of the US, is considered to be the second-best country in the world in which to live for those who want to run their own businesses, and enjoy a decent quality of life (the US places 7th). The 17 best countries in the world for people who want to run their own businesses — and enjoy a high quality of life

What terrifies Americans about the state having some part in helping citizens when no other help is available, or the state having something to say about what corporate capital may NOT be permitted to get away with?

If Trump wins and I need to seek political asylum in Canada will you vouch for me?

 

[Stevicus]

Just on this point...I think those proposing social welfare programs need to do a better job of getting the hard economic benefits of such programs discussed.
Health is where I would start.

Many have tried to do that, but I think the key is to avoid using words like "social" or "welfare." And of course, once "socialism" <gasp> is ever mentioned, then the discussion quickly goes down the drain.

On the other hand, I think that most reasonable people can be convinced of the economic benefits of a healthier population and workforce, but then comes the problem of who is better to provide this service: The public sector or the private sector? I will concede that government can be extremely wasteful and inefficient at times, not to mention corrupt and downright dishonest.

So, even if one can be convinced in theory of the need for social welfare programs, they might still fear that government is too corrupt and inefficient to actually do the job.

 

[sun rise]

Socialist policies will undoubtedly raise my taxes and take hard earned money out of my pocket. I don’t like that. It’s really that simple.

Of course that should also include signing documents that state that you cannot ask for assistance if you're ever faced with medical bills you can't pay, being out of work and running out of money, asking to have a decent infrastructure, asking for protection from polluters, any retirement benefits from the government whatsoever and so forth.

 

[Lyndon]

Let's not forget the biggest socialist programme, the US Military

 

[Left Coast]

If Trump wins and I need to seek political asylum in Canada will you vouch for me?

No fair, me first!

God I AM American, aren't I?

 

[Left Coast]

Socialist policies will undoubtedly raise my taxes and take hard earned money out of my pocket. I don’t like that. It’s really that simple.

Instead, you'll let private health insurance companies take even more of your hard earned money out of your pocket than the government would?

 

[Watchmen]

Aren't you so fortunate to be earning over 400,000 a year, I say you quit complaining!!

No. That’s not what I make.

 

[Watchmen]

Have you looked at your countries current spending on the military and health?
Have you tried comparing that to Canada, Australia, Austria, or one of a number of other countries which are First World democracies with high standards of living and happiness?
Are you sure the real issue is socialist policy?

Yes.

 

[Watchmen]

Of course that should also include signing documents that state that you cannot ask for assistance if you're ever faced with medical bills you can't pay, being out of work and running out of money, asking to have a decent infrastructure, asking for protection from polluters, any retirement benefits from the government whatsoever and so forth.

Why? I still pay taxes. More than most.

 

[Watchmen]

Instead, you'll let private health insurance companies take even more of your hard earned money out of your pocket than the government would?

Admittedly, the healthcare system is broken and I support reform.