Trump Introduces Anti-Abortion Policy

[icehorse]

If there was some agenda going on, I'd gather that the defunding of Planned Parenthood is just the beginning on this matter. Next would be proper education about personal responsibility, the consequences, and more importantly the value of life. This fundamental change would directly conflict with third wave feminisms nonsense, but without any coherent reasoning backed up by facts, their days look numbered.

And Trump's daughters are adults. If they do decide do to anything I'd believe their decisions would be an informed one.

We're not likely to see eye to eye on this issue. That said, I can acknowledge that what I have is an *opinion* on the topic. You also have an *opinion* - it's your *opinion* that what's needed here is your version of "proper education".

We disagree on all the points you made here, I just wanted to clarify that you're not stating facts, you're voicing your opinions.

 

[Shad]

It's cheaper than the government (i.e., taxpayers) paying to raise a kid for 18+ years. Also, this bill is directed at US dollars paying for abortions in other countries. I am strictly pro-choice, but I find myself agreeing with this action.

It is even cheaper to teach people to make responsible choices rather than caving to their desires while expecting government to bail them out for their poor choices and a situation they could of avoided completely.

Do not worry I know personal responsibility it not a thing with the entitlement era. It's like Latin to them.

 

[Drolefille]

Defunding Planned Parenthood isn't doable under current law. You can't just not pay a Medicaid provider who provides Medicaid services because you don't like their name or other things they do. This happens repeatedly. A new law would be challenged in court, and overturned.

And Shad, if you want to pretend that abortions are new, or that sex outside of marriage is new. Or that sex without the desire to have children is new, I feel like you're missing a lot of history that I can't possibly provide you with. But do note that prophylactics have been around for centuries if not millennia. That abortions have also been around for a long time. And that no generation has ever restricted their sexual behavior to marriage. This is not a thing that has ever happened. Stop blaming "kids these days" as it was old when the Ancient Greeks did it.

 

[psychoslice]

If your ignorant about your body then you shouldn't be having unprotected sex, if you do and you become pregnant, then I believe its fine to have it removed at least in the first couple of weeks , if you leave it longer than that then have the baby and give it to a responsible person.

 

[BSM1]

It is even cheaper to teach people to make responsible choices rather than caving to their desires while expecting government to bail them out for their poor choices and a situation they could of avoided completely.

Do not worry I know personal responsibility it not a thing with the entitlement era. It's like Latin to them.

If that were even feasible we would no need for any laws at all. Also this could be applied to any human indulgence that may lead to a medical intervention by the government: alcoholism, obesity, substance abuse, for instance. I guess it's okay to pick and choose which hills to die on.

 

[Drolefille]

If your ignorant about your body then you shouldn't be having unprotected sex, if you do and you become pregnant, then I believe its fine to have it removed at least in the first couple of weeks , if you leave it longer than that then have the baby and give it to a responsible person.

Most women who have abortions have a child at home. They're being responsible, they're aware of their bodies and they have many MANY reasons for why they end up with an unwanted pregnancy. Why's the blame and responsibility all on her anyway?

 

[psychoslice]

Most women who have abortions have a child at home. They're being responsible, they're aware of their bodies and they have many MANY reasons for why they end up with an unwanted pregnancy. Why's the blame and responsibility all on her anyway?

You would have to be pretty ignorant not to know sex can equal a baby , and because the baby is born from the women then its her responsibility to do the right thing.

 

[Drolefille]

You would have to be pretty ignorant not to know sex can equal a baby , and because the baby is born from the women then its her responsibility to do the right thing.

So, you think the women, with children already, don't know that?
And you think that despite the fact that multiple people have sex, only one person is responsible for the baby.

Personally a woman who decides that having a baby isn't a good idea for her right then, and chooses to have an abortion because of it, is a woman who is being very responsible.

Alternatively treat women who have an abortion like idiots or children. Because that's what ever anti-abortion law that requires a doctor to lie, or tell them things they already know is. It isn't working and women are done with it.

 

[psychoslice]

So, you think the women, with children already, don't know that?
And you think that despite the fact that multiple people have sex, only one person is responsible for the baby.

Personally a woman who decides that having a baby isn't a good idea for her right then, and chooses to have an abortion because of it, is a woman who is being very responsible.

Alternatively treat women who have an abortion like idiots or children. Because that's what ever anti-abortion law that requires a doctor to lie, or tell them things they already know is. It isn't working and women are done with it.

Yes there is nothing wrong in that as I have already said in another reply, the brain and nerves system doesn't start to grow till around five weeks, so having it before then is fine in my book, by responsibility is a must so this wont happen.

 

[Drolefille]

Yes there is nothing wrong in that as I have already said in another reply, the brain and nerves system doesn't start to grow till around five weeks, so having it before then is fine in my book, by responsibility is a must so this wont happen.

Abortions are responsible. And you almost never know you're pregnant until past five weeks. You generally have to miss a period. Pregnancy is counted from the beginning of the previous cycle. Women's cycles average 28 days but this is far from universal. Finding out by five weeks that you're pregnant is not the norm. That's not "being unaware of their bodies" or "not knowing that sex causes babies."

Pregnancy isn't like a switch where once it happens women just KNOW. And so many end in miscarriages it's traditional not to tell anyone for far longer than five weeks.

 

[psychoslice]

Abortions are responsible. And you almost never know you're pregnant until past five weeks. You generally have to miss a period. Pregnancy is counted from the beginning of the previous cycle. Women's cycles average 28 days but this is far from universal. Finding out by five weeks that you're pregnant is not the norm. That's not "being unaware of their bodies" or "not knowing that sex causes babies."

Pregnancy isn't like a switch where once it happens women just KNOW. And so many end in miscarriages it's traditional not to tell anyone for far longer than five weeks.

So you are saying these women don't realize sperm and egg=baby ?.

 

[Drolefille]

So you are saying these women don't realize sperm and egg=baby ?.

I'm saying your continued infantilization of women is the reason millions of them marched on Saturday.

If you don't understand fundamental facts about pregnancy, stop acting as if women know even less than you.

 

[esmith]

Question
What does the topic of this post have anything to do with abortions in the U.S.
This was a reinstatement of the Mexico City Policies which deals with US taxpayers funding abortions outside of the US. Nothing about US abortions law

 

[Thanda]

But Planned Parenthood doesn't only do abortions. In fact abortions are a very tiny percentage of what they do.
So, cutting their funding leads to more women being unable to get contraception. And guess what that leads to...yes, you've got it more, unplanned pregnancies and more demand for abortions.

The article in the OP is not talking about PP. It is talking about international organisations. Why does the author of the HP article assume women will turn to unsafe abortions when they are defunded from providing services that have nothing to do with abortion (or so they claim)? Is it maybe because the "non-abortion" money was partially subsidizing the abortion work?

 

[Thanda]

Who said that PP would shut down without government funding?
Tom

@Quetzal. He has since backtracked on his claim.

 

[Thanda]

I think you are the one who doesn't understand what is going on.
By defunding efforts to prevent pregnancy, abortions will go up.
Trump is defunding anti-abortion efforts.
Tom

Even if the abortions go up there these same organisations are providing abortion services so they can continue to do so. The HP journo believes "unsafe abortions" will increase. The question is why? If these organisations are defunded from providing non-abortion services they should be able to still be able to provide abortion services, right?

 

[Altfish]

The article in the OP is not talking about PP. It is talking about international organisations. Why does the author of the HP article assume women will turn to unsafe abortions when they are defunded from providing services that have nothing to do with abortion (or so they claim)? Is it maybe because the "non-abortion" money was partially subsidizing the abortion work?

Because evidence of what happens in countries with restrictive abortion laws has shown what happens to desperate women who will risk their own life. Back-street abortions are not a figment of the left's imagination.

 

[Thanda]

It doesn't. The policy under Obama also encouraged unsafe abortions.


It's a tossup. On the one hand, hampering access to Planned Parenthood will increase the number of unwanted pregnancies that might be aborted. OTOH, hampering access to prenatal care will increase miscarriages and deaths of women during pregnancy, which I'm guessing you don't count as abortion.

Why are we so casual in accepting abortions? This logic you are using is the same as saying men should have unfettered access to all women so that they will never find themselves needing to rape anyone. It's ridiculous - what happened to personal responsibility and respect for human life?

 

[Thanda]

Because evidence of what happens in countries with restrictive abortion laws has shown what happens to desperate women who will risk their own life. Back-street abortions are not a figment of the left's imagination.

You are not answering the question. This has nothing to do with a country's laws - these organisations would not be advising on or carrying out abortions in countries where it is illegal. These organisation are there providing abortion services - so if a woman needs abortion they can obtain it from these organisations. So why does the HP journo assume women will no longer be able to go to these same abortion organisations when they have been defunded from providing non-abortion services?

 

[Thanda]

Ahh, see it's not so much about abortion as it is access to family health in developing countries, which is apparently (according to this article) funded by US money, which is now being scrapped. Now I won't comment on whether that is right or wrong, Americans can decide for themselves on that matter. But the article is claiming that in third world countries, access to abortion and family health clinics will significantly decrease because the aid from the US is being nixed, which would then lead to unsafe abortions and other unsafe pregnancies because of the lack of prenatal care. The article is more about the impact this has internationally, though I also don't know how accurate it's being overall. In saying that, America does in fact have a lot of impact internationally speaking.

The question is why would it lead to "unsafe" abortions. Why wouldn't those organisations just provide the abortions for the women who need them as they had been doing before they got defunded?