True Quran.

[Zhakir]

fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.Quran 2:190

This verse and more than a hundred other verses repeat the same message, and it's the prohibition of fighting peaceful individuals who don't fight others.
This Islamic ideology didn't match with many of people who are Bandits, mercenaries, aggressive warriors fighting for causes like the wealth and captivity of women and the occupation of the lands of the others, quite common in the history of humanity and Arabia. In order to cancel these type of peaceful thinking, the enemies of Islam have tried to spread antiquranic hadiths falsly attributed to the prophet Muhammad, claiming the Hadith or suna is another revelation revealed to him.
lets read one of these hadiths Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
Sahih Bukhari 1:2:24
It's useful to note that the idea of abrogation and this wrong image of prophet Muhammad is strongly supported by many Islam critics, Same actions but different purposes, we have the salafi Muslims disagreeing with the Quran's call for peace and freedom and wanting to cancel it by hadiths and misinterruption of the Quran itself, and hence claiming abrogaton and strugling against Quranists like us. On the other hand we have non Muslim Islam critics who are well aware of Quran's true Message, and also of hadiths' message, but since spreading the fact that Quran calls for the best means that people will turn away from those critic's religions and that "true Islam" is the religion to believe in. they are strongly denying the fact that Quran calls for peace and tolerance, they are supporting abrogation, trying to hide all the sounds against abrogation even those sound of some old salafis, and of course strugling to show that our faith "Quranism" is not Islam and that it's impossible for a Muslim to follow Quran Only.
For Our reply to abrogation:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/same-faith-debates/104394-muslim-abrogation-quran.html

No one actually denies the fact that such a hadith contradicts the Quran,
so "false Muslim" scholars have come up of the concept of abrogation claiming that God changes his mind and decided to cancel peaceful verses and replace different hadith and verses. they couldn't of course find a contradicting verse in the Quran, they only found the respect for religious freedom, it's not me claiming that but it's the Quran itself proving this:
(incomplate list of the Peace verses)
*And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 2:191-192

*There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing. 2:254


*Say: Do you dispute with us about Allah, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds, and we are sincere to Him. 2:139

*They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide. 2:217

*But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants. 3:20

*Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming. 3:28

*These are they of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts; therefore turn aside from them and admonish them, and speak to them effectual words concerning themselves. 4:63

*Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them.

And they say: Obedience. But when they go out from your presence, a party of them decide by night upon doing otherwise than what you say; and Allah writes down what they decide by night, therefore turn aside from them and trust in Allah, and Allah is sufficient as a protector. 4:80-81

*Fight then in Allah's way; this is not imposed on you except In relation to yourself, and rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve and Allah is strongest in prowess and strongest to give an exemplary punishment. 4:84

*Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority. 4:90-91

*And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell. 4:140

*O you who believe! do not violate the signs appointed by Allah nor the sacred month, nor (interfere with) the offerings, nor the sacrificial animals with garlands, nor those going to the sacred house seeking the grace and pleasure of their Lord; and when you are free from the obligations of the pilgrimage, then hunt, and let not hatred of a people-- because they hindered you from the Sacred Masjid-- incite you to exceed the limits, and help one another in goodness and piety, and do not help one another in sin and aggression; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil). 5:2

*And when We made a covenant with the children of Israel: You shall not serve any but Allah and (you shall do) good to (your) parents, and to the near of kin and to the orphans and the needy, and you shall speak to men good words and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate. Then you turned back except a few of you and (now too) you turn aside. 5:32

*But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others). 5:13

*Nothing is (incumbent) on the Messenger but to deliver (the message), and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide. 5:99

*And your people call it a lie and it is the very truth. Say: I am not placed in charge of you. 6:66

*And when you see those who enter into false discourses about Our communications, withdraw from them until they enter into some other discourse, and if the Shaitan causes you to forget, then do not sit after recollection with the unjust people. 6:68

*And leave those who have taken their religion for a play and an idle sport, and whom this world's life has deceived, and remind (them) thereby lest a soul should be given up to destruction for what it has earned; it shall not have besides Allah any guardian nor an intercessor, and if it should seek to give every compensation, it shall not be accepted from it; these are they who shall be given up to destruction for what they earned; they shall have a drink of boiling water and a painful chastisement because they disbelieved. 6:70

*And they do not assign to Allah the attributes due to Him when they say: Allah has not revealed anything to a mortal. Say: Who revealed the Book which Musa brought, a light and a guidance to men, which you make into scattered writings which you show while you conceal much? And you were taught what you did not know, (neither) you nor your fathers. Say: Allah then leave them sporting in their vain discourses. 6:91

 

[Zhakir]

*Indeed there have come to you clear proofs from your Lord; whoever will therefore see, it is for his own soul and whoever will be blind, it shall be against himself and I am not a keeper over you. 6:104

*Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord; there is no god but He; and withdraw from the polytheists.

And if Allah had pleased, they would not have set up others (with Him) and We have not appointed you a keeper over them, and you are not placed in charge of them.
*And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did. 6:107-109
*And thus did We make for every prophet an enemy, the Shaitans from among men and jinn, some of them suggesting to others varnished falsehood to deceive (them), and had your Lord pleased they would not have done it, therefore leave them and that which they forget. 6:112
*And thus their associates have made fair seeming to most of the polytheists the killing of their children, that they may cause them to perish and obscure for them their religion; and if Allah had pleased, they would not have done it, therefore leave them and that which they forge. 6:137
*Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did. 6159
* And I grant them respite; surely My scheme is effective. 7:183
*Take to forgiveness and enjoin good and turn aside from the ignorant. 7:199
* And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing. 8:61
* Surely those who believed and fled (their homes) and struggled hard in Allah's way with their property and their souls, and those who gave shelter and helped-- these are guardians of each other; and (as for) those who believed and did not fly, not yours is their guardianship until they fly; and if they seek aid from you in the matter of religion, aid is incumbent on you except against a people between whom and you there is a treaty, and Allah sees what you do. 8:72
* How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).9:7
*And if they call you a liar, say: My work is for me and your work for you; you are clear of what I do and I am clear of what you do. 10:41
*And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers? 10:99
*Say: O people! indeed there has come to you the truth from your Lord, therefore whoever goes aright, he goes aright only for the good of his own soul, and whoever goes astray, he goes astray only to the detriment of it, and I am not a custodian over you. 10:108
*And say to those who do not believe: Act according to your state; surely we too are acting.
*And wait; surely we are waiting also.10:121-122
*And We will either let you see part of what We threaten them with or cause you to die, for only the delivery of the message is (incumbent) on you, while calling (them) to account is Our (business) 13:40
*Leave them that they may eat and enjoy themselves and (that) hope may beguile them, for they will soon know.15:3
*And We did not create the heavens and the earth and what is between them two but in truth; and the hour is most surely coming, so turn away with kindly forgiveness.15:85
*Do not strain your eyes after what We have given certain classes of them to enjoy, and do not grieve for them, and make yourself gentle to the believers.
*And say: Surely I am the plain warner.15:88-89
*Therefore declare openly what you are bidden and turn aside from the polytheists.15:94
*But if they turn back, then on you devolves only the clear deliverance (of the message 16:82
*Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way16:125
*And be patient and your patience is not but by (the assistance of) Allah, and grieve not for them,16:127
*Your Lord knows you best; He will have mercy on you if He pleases, or He will chastise you if He pleases; and We have not sent you as being in charge of them. 17:54
*Say: As for him who remains in error, the Beneficent Allah will surely prolong his length of days, until they see what they were threatened with, either the punishment or the hour; then they shall know who is in more evil plight and weaker in forces19-75
*Therefore be not in haste against them, We only number out to them a number (of days).19:84
*Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by the praising of Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and during hours of the night do also glorify (Him) and during parts of the day, that you may be well pleased 20:130
*Every one (of us) is awaiting, therefore do await: So you will come to know who is the follower of the even path and who goes aright.20:135
*And if they contend with you, say: Allah best knows what you do. 22:68
*Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you24:54
*when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!";
25:63
*And to rehearse the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: "I am only a Warner"27:92
*...To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant."28:55
*So patiently persevere: for verily the promise of Allah is true: nor let those shake thy firmness, who have (themselves) no certainty of faith.30:60
*But if any reject Faith, let not his rejection grieve thee: to Us is their return,32:30
*And obey not (the behests) of the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and heed not their annoyances,33:48
*Say: "Ye shall not be questioned as to our sins, nor shall we be questioned as to what ye do."34:25
Thou art no other than a warner 35:23
*Let not their speech, then, grieve thee. Verily We know what they hide as well as what they disclose.36:76
*So turn thou away from them for a little while,
And watch them (how they fare), and they soon shall see (how thou farest)!37-174-175
*And turn away from them till a time
And (then) see, for they too shall see.37:178-179
*Only this has been revealed to me: that I am to give warning plainly and publicly. 38:70
*And ye shall certainly know the truth of it (all) after a while.38:88

 

[Zhakir]

I hope all non Muslim's view to the Quran who read this will not be based on the Hadith anymore, and I wish Muslim reject the books that contradict with Quran.

 

[England my lionheart]

IMO the Sunnah and ahadith are whats put Islam where it is today and i'm surprised there aren't more Quranists

 

[YmirGF]

I hope all non Muslim's view to the Quran who read this will not be based on the Hadith anymore, and I wish Muslim reject the books that contradict with Quran.

I tend to agree, but then again, I am a non-Muslim - and with good reason.

The downside to all this is that there is such a strong scholarly tradition in Islam and opinions vary significantly over the last 1400 years. Though disagreement is healthy, current scholars are unlikely to just toss away all that reasoning, accumulated over such a long period of time, anytime soon. Also, without a central authority, it's akin to herding a bunch of cats.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Dear Zhakir, In all the verses you have quoted Allah appears to have equated righteousness with believe in Islam and has enjoined upon Muslims to fight non-believers [recompense of the unbelievers]. In verses where Allah tells Mohammad he is only a warner, Allah also says He will deal justly with Kafirs (by offering them boiling water?). Which is why in practice a jihad is always against Kafirs and not a spiritual journey within.

 

[Welf]

As Muhammed specifically told his followers to not write down what he said, isn't the wriiten Qoran invalid ??

 

[phatcatholic]

Zhakir ... if you do not agree with the theory of abrogation, how then do you resolve the many contradictions in the Quran?

 

[phatcatholic]

Btw, how is this topic a "scriptural debate"? This thread probably needs to be moved somewhere else.