Trinity - Fact or Fiction?

[Truth_Faith13]

Ok, I can tell some of you want to scream at me for saying I do not believe in the trinity in my "Non-Trinitarians" thread:-http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=831939#post831939
And are just itching to have a debate about it as one poster wrote:-

The Bible CLEARLY states there is but one God, none others before, none others beside, that God knows of NO other God but Himself. As the Bible CLEARLY ascribes Deity to the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, these three persons can only make up ONE true God, hence a tri-une God.

MANY gods did not create the earth, it was ONE God, three persons, all present at creation, the Spirit of God hovering over the earth, the WORD of God, Jesus, and God the Father, each with their own roles, that is why they said let us make man in our image.

The Bible is completely clear, there is only one God, period.

I know there are some threads already open about this "Is Jesus God in the Flesh?" http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51381 but I wanted to address the "whole trinity" "Father, Son, Holy Spirit".

So fire away.... lets hear those ideas?

 

[joeboonda]

I reckon that is me you quoted there laws...If one goes by scripture alone as authority, the Bible does say that there is one God and no other beside Him, none before, none after, that He knows not one. We cannot have three gods, as there is but one, so we have one God, three persons. That is what I believe from scripture, that's all. Peace.

 

[Mister Emu]

Do you have any specific questions?

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Do you have any specific questions?

No specific questions! Just thought I would open a thread for people to argue for/against the trinity - as it seems a couple were eager to do so in the non debating forums.....

 

[Katzpur]

I reckon that is me you quoted there laws...If one goes by scripture alone as authority, the Bible does say that there is one God and no other beside Him, none before, none after, that He knows not one. We cannot have three gods, as there is but one, so we have one God, three persons. That is what I believe from scripture, that's all. Peace.

And yet the Creeds that hundred of millions of Christians use to describe the triune God state, "[The] Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God..." If there are three "persons" and those three "persons" and each of them is divine, explain to me please how they are "one God." Talk about circular logic!

 

[doppelganger]

explain to me please how they are "one God." Talk about circular logic!

How many Trinitarians does it take to change a light bulb?

Three. One to change the light bulb.

 

[Comprehend]

I reckon that is me you quoted there laws...If one goes by scripture alone as authority, the Bible does say that there is one God and no other beside Him, none before, none after, that He knows not one. We cannot have three gods, as there is but one, so we have one God, three persons. That is what I believe from scripture, that's all. Peace.

I would suggest that is cherry picking, there are different ways to understand the scriptures you have quoted, you take a few scriptures out of the context of the bible and use them to support your view when there are many many more scriptures that indicate they are not the same being.

There are dozens of times where Jesus Christ is called the Son. He is seen sitting on the right hand of God in a vision after he ascended. At His baptism, the voice of God the Father comes down from heaven as Jesus comes out of the water. Jesus prays to His Father, and states that His Father is in heaven while Jesus was on the earth. Jesus explains in John 17 (if I remember right) how we can be one with Jesus as Jesus is one with the Father. If that is possible, either we are going to become the same being as Jesus or Jesus was talking about a different kind of oneness.

If one goes by the scripture alone as authority, one may easily see that Jesus really is the Son of God, that Jesus and God the Father are seperate and distinct beings just as it is described in the bible. I always have to laugh at the idea of Jesus praying to Himself all that time on earth. How does that make an ounce of sense? Who is Jesus talking to? What could He possibly mean when He said "not my will but thine"? Can one person have two different wills?

I think belief in the trinity requires some very strange mental gymnastics that are both illogical and inconsistant with the bible.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is a bit like there being only one telephone in the house.
You never know which is going to answer.
But as they speak with one voice
Does it matter?

 

[Katzpur]

It is a bit like there being only one telephone in the house.
You never know which is going to answer.
But as they speak with one voice
Does it matter?

I think that's an excellent analogy, actually. That they speak with "one voice" is what's important. You could also say that they are of "one mind and heart." I see these phrases (one voice, one mind, one heart) as references to a spiritual unity and not a physical unity. In fact, the statement "You never know which is going to answer," implies a plurality of some kind.

 

[Prometheus]

The Doctrine of the Trinity - Explained

The concept of a triune God is actually a lot simpler to understand than most people believe. This video should clear things up nicely. It did for me.

 

[Comprehend]

The Doctrine of the Trinity - Explained

The concept of a triune God is actually a lot simpler to understand than most people believe. This video should clear things up nicely. It did for me.

LOL. That is funny.

 

[joeboonda]

And yet the Creeds that hundred of millions of Christians use to describe the triune God state, "[The] Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God..." If there are three "persons" and those three "persons" and each of them is divine, explain to me please how they are "one God." Talk about circular logic!

Well, there is only one God. That is a clear teaching of the Bible. I will not say there is more than one God. Thus, three persons make up the one God, for me it makes sense, if others wish to have more than one God contrary to the Bible's clear teaching, then that's fine with me, I just agree to disagree, what more can I do?

 

[joeboonda]

I would suggest that is cherry picking, there are different ways to understand the scriptures you have quoted, you take a few scriptures out of the context of the bible and use them to support your view when there are many many more scriptures that indicate they are not the same being.

There are dozens of times where Jesus Christ is called the Son. He is seen sitting on the right hand of God in a vision after he ascended. At His baptism, the voice of God the Father comes down from heaven as Jesus comes out of the water. Jesus prays to His Father, and states that His Father is in heaven while Jesus was on the earth. Jesus explains in John 17 (if I remember right) how we can be one with Jesus as Jesus is one with the Father. If that is possible, either we are going to become the same being as Jesus or Jesus was talking about a different kind of oneness.

If one goes by the scripture alone as authority, one may easily see that Jesus really is the Son of God, that Jesus and God the Father are seperate and distinct beings just as it is described in the bible. I always have to laugh at the idea of Jesus praying to Himself all that time on earth. How does that make an ounce of sense? Who is Jesus talking to? What could He possibly mean when He said "not my will but thine"? Can one person have two different wills?

I think belief in the trinity requires some very strange mental gymnastics that are both illogical and inconsistant with the bible.

Yes, they have different roles, Jesus is subordinate to the Father, He is the Son, the Spirit is the Holy Spirit, they have the same attributes but different roles, yet they are one God. For the Bible says clearly that the Lord thy God is one God, there is none before Him, none beside Him, God asks, " Has there ever been another god before me? I know not one." God is from everlasting as is the Son, and Holy Spirit, they are one, they have always been God, (never a man who became a god, nor is there a council of gods as some have taught). God has always been, "His goings forth are from everlasting." To me, having been taught the Bible all my life, it is simple, no gymnastics required on this end. If anyone is interested in a more detailed description of the tri-une God, (3 persons, one God), here is a link: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

 

[*Paul*]

I reckon that is me you quoted there laws...If one goes by scripture alone as authority, the Bible does say that there is one God and no other beside Him, none before, none after, that He knows not one. We cannot have three gods, as there is but one, so we have one God, three persons. That is what I believe from scripture, that's all. Peace.

And that is undenialbe for it can be proven taking all that the scriputres say about each person that they are God and that God the Son became man without ceasing to be God and so did and said things as fully man and also did and said things as fully God.

 

[Vassal]

And yet the Creeds that hundred of millions of Christians use to describe the triune God state, "[The] Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God..." If there are three "persons" and those three "persons" and each of them is divine, explain to me please how they are "one God." Talk about circular logic!

So even though the Bible clearly states that there is only one God, that the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and they are all distinct from each other, you deny this because you can't completely understand how such a thing is possible? If this is the case, then how can you believe that God created everything? For us humans, it is incomprehensible how something could be created from nothing, yet God said he did so. Are you saying you don’t believe he did? What about other things like God being eternal and self-sufficient? How can something have always existed? Do you deny these things to be true since you can’t understand them, or are you able to explain to us how such things are possible?

 

[UnityNow101]

I agree that our finite minds cannot fully grasp the concept of God but to put Jesus on the same level as the Almighty and forgetting the Father of Jesus Christ as many Christians do is just not scriptural. I hear Christians say that they pray to Jesus, something that is clearly not biblical. Jesus prayed to His God and His Father....Why do many Christians bypass the Almighty God and say that Jesus has the same power that His Father has? Even Jesus denies this, yet many choose to ignore it.

 

[Popeyesays]

I don't think the Trinity is fact or fiction. It is an invention to explain the unexplainable and it misses the mark as often as it hits the mark.

Every religion contains a "trinity" God--the Giver of Revelation, the Spirit of God, the Revelation Itself, and the Receiver of the Revelation--the Prophet.

To try to make it more is the problem. It's a meme that wo0n't stretch that far.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Katzpur]

So even though the Bible clearly states that there is only one God, that the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and they are all distinct from each other, you deny this because you can't completely understand how such a thing is possible?

For starters, I don't deny it at all.

If this is the case, then how can you believe that God created everything?

Well, it's not the case, and I can quite easily believe that God created everything.

For us humans, it is incomprehensible how something could be created from nothing, yet God said he did so.

No, God did not say He created something "from nothing," but this would be a good topic for a new thread if you'd like to debate it. You'd have to agree to let me do the talking when it comes to my own beliefs, though, instead of telling me what I believe.

Are you saying you don’t believe he did?

Yes, I believe He created our universe. I don't believe in an ex nihilo creation, though.

What about other things like God being eternal and self-sufficient? How can something have always existed? Do you deny these things to be true since you can’t understand them, or are you able to explain to us how such things are possible?

I believe everything the Bible has to say about God. What I don't do is pretend that the Bible says things about Him that it doesn't really say, and then turn around and try to tell people that those things are in the Bible.

 

[Popeyesays]

"Yes, they have different roles, Jesus is subordinate to the Father, He is the Son, the Spirit is the Holy Spirit, they have the same attributes but different roles, yet they are one God."

So nothing that is subordinate to anything can be God, right?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I reckon that is me you quoted there laws...If one goes by scripture alone as authority, the Bible does say that there is one God and no other beside Him, none before, none after, that He knows not one. We cannot have three gods, as there is but one, so we have one God, three persons. That is what I believe from scripture, that's all. Peace.

Sorry I havent been on much over the weekend - hence late reply! Yes it was you! One God, Three persons - That isnt what the trinity states - so are you saying you disagree with the trinity?