To what extent was Gautama Buddha a theist or an atheist?

[Brickjectivity]

My objections to both Christians and Muslims is that they try and draw artificial lines between what is theism and non-theism, in religions such as Buddhism to fit their agenda. It is difficult to make this actual distinction in Buddhism, because the reality is the believers of the various different divisions of Buddhism cross a wide divergence of how they describe what they believe.

That is interesting. Yes it is difficult to figure out many things about Buddhists, but I can still adapt some of their discoveries. They have some handy tools.

 

[shunyadragon]

Please read Paarasurey's post and provide something that is inaccurate, Luis. Please. Otherwise, your statement shuts out accurate information based on Paarasurey's religious affiliation.

This thread should not be a platform for you to air your grievances about Muslims or Islam.

Has Islam even been discussed at any point in this thread? Why even bring it up?

I do not believe it is necessarily a problem from the perspective of different beliefs such as Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith, but one must realize that this a perspective of what one believes. If @paarasurey expresses his opinion from the perspective of Islam concerning Buddhism it is no problem for others to present a counterview.

 

[dybmh]

I do not believe it is necessarily a problem from the perspective of different beliefs such as Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith, but one must realize that this a perspective of what one believes. If @paarasurey expresses his opinion from the perspective of Islam concerning Buddhism it is no problem for others to present a counterview.

Which part of Paarasurey's post "expressed his opinion from the perspective of Islam".

From my reading, it could have come from anyone. It was a good useful observation based on scripture which appears to be Buddhist.

If he had quoted the Qur'an... OK, you have a point. But he didn't. he quoted Buddha Gautama.

 

[dybmh]

@LuisDantas ,

I see you have a problem with how Paarasurey implicitly spoke about Atheism.

You said, "It's wrong".

If possible, I would very much like a better understanding of this. For the simple purpose of not miss-speaking about Atheism unintentionally. Please.

 

[shunyadragon]

Which part of Paarasurey's post "expressed his opinion from the perspective of Islam".

From my reading, it could have come from anyone. It was a good useful observation based on scripture which appears to be Buddhist.

If he had quoted the Qur'an... OK, you have a point. But he didn't. he quoted Buddha Guatama.

I believe he expressed his form an Islamic view, and does not have to quote the Quran to do so. No problem disagreeing with @paarsurrey regardless.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is interesting. Yes it is difficult to figure out many things about Buddhists, but I can still adapt some of their discoveries. They have some handy tools.

I try not to figure it out.

 

[dybmh]

I believe he expressed his form an Islamic view

How was it Islamic?

 

[Jim]

How was it Islamic?

Is this your exercise in futility for today? I haven’t decided what mine will be yet.

 

[dybmh]

Is this your exercise in futility for today? I haven’t decided what mine will be yet.

I just thought that Paarasurey's comment was useful and profound. And I don't think it should be criticized based on his religious affiliation.

I hope that Paarasuery will be encouraged to continue to participate in spite of what was said in this thread.

Also: I think @shunyadragon is fully capable of recognizing that Paarasurey's comments were not Islamic.

So no... not futile.

 

[Jim]

I hope that Paarasuery will be encouraged to continue to participate in spite of what was said in this thread.

Oh. Right. I agree.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Buddha is one of the avatArs of VishNu.
It is typical of the Devas to visit VishNu (NArAyaN) during His avatAr-kArya on earth. Some of them are also assigned tasks and roles to make His avatAr mission a success, and some are asked to take birth on earth to assist with the mission.

Bramha-Dev (the creator God BramhA, creator of BramhANDa - Universe) , Shiva, NArad-Muni and other Devas headed by King of Devas i.e. Indra, visited Shri KRshNa several times -- individually and in groups -- when He was on earth in Mathura, GokuL, Dwarka...
At His appearance in Mathura as son of Devaki and Vasudev, the devas sang hymns of praise. Shiva came down to GokuL to pay Baby KRshNa a visit, Indra learned a lesson from KRshNa at Goverdhan, Narad Muni was in constant touch and visited Him in Dwarka palaces, BramhA in Vrindavan and Dwarka, and finally when it was time for KRshNa to wind up His stay here, all devas headed by BramhA and Shiva came. They come to remind VishNu it is time to leave.
RAma was also gently urged to leave -- otherwise , He is unable to leave earth due to His overflowing compassion.

I agree that both Krishna and Buddha are Avatars of Vishnu. As for the relationship between Brahma, Shiva and all their devas to Vishnu I am undeclared.

 

[Samana Johann]

I have some trouble parsing your language, but if I understood you correctly, I will have to take firm issue with your stance.

Devotion to the sublime is hardly implied in theism. If anything, there is a negative correlation between the two traits.

I would expect a follower of the contemplative path to be well aware of that fairly self-evident fact, but perhaps I was being too optimistic.

Separately, there is another issue as well. Muslims generally have a very hard time understanding even the basic facts of non-theism. To the best of my understanding the Qur'an describes something not particularly relatable or realistic and calls that non-theism. We atheists and skeptics keep being offered incredibly disconnected questions by Muslims of all origins. In all honesty, one gets the sense that they learned about non-theists from some form of satirical cartoon that had no goal of presenting a realistic portrait of the subject matter.

Well, even the Buddha was clear and made no secret out of it, that "sceptics" and holder of strong wrong view (as "there are no gods...") are bound to hell. And to tell such was a matter of compassion.

One often relates one with more danger if tending to modern "Buddhists" as when tending to worshippers of what ever gods. Something one should be careful of.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I’ve been watching debates between atheists and other people for years. In my experience, the label “theists,” in Internet debates, was first used by atheists as an umbrella term for people who believe in the imaginary creator Gods of Christians and Muslims, and I think it’s still being used that way. From the stories I’ve read about Buddha, it looks to me like he rejects that kind of belief, so my answer was “no.”

Theism to me means the belief in God or gods, not the belief in imaginary God or gods. I performed due diligence in this matter and consulted 'Google'. Of course Buddha didn't believe in imaginary gods as He was a supremely enlightened being. The good news is you can change vote!

 

[Samana Johann]

I performed due diligence in this matter and consulted 'Google

God google has never met the Buddha not any virtues God. Such consult is like asking children of common folk, or one self.

 

[Jim]

Theism to me means the belief in God or gods, not the belief in imaginary God or gods. I performed due diligence in this matter and consulted 'Google'. Of course Buddha didn't believe in imaginary gods as He was a supremely enlightened being. The good news is you can change vote!

Do you know of anyone who identifies as a theist, who denounces speculations about the reality or existence of God, including whether or not Buddha is a theist? Yes, now I’m denouncing my voting on this poll. You’ve convinced me. I’ll remove my vote if I can.

 

[Jim]

I couldn’t remove my vote, so I changed it to say that it doesn’t reflect my thinking.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Do you know of anyone who identifies as a theist, who denounces speculations about the reality or existence of God, including whether or not Buddha is a theist? Yes, now I’m denouncing my voting on this poll. You’ve convinced me. I’ll remove my vote if I can.

I know of no such person who would reflect the literal words of Buddha. They were said in response to the exigencies of the peoples of the Indian subcontinent. However, as Muslims and Christians have debates about the Sonship of Jesus, the Divinity of Jesus and the trinity, perhaps the example of Buddha could inspire. Should we wish to more clearly define the reality of Vishnu, Brahma and Shiva the Buddha's example may lead us to remain undeclared. As the exemplar of our faith once said, there is safety in silence.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 155-157

 

[Dawnofhope]

God google has never met the Buddha not any virtues God. Such consult is like asking children of common folk, or one self.

A wise man would instantly become no more than an arrogant fool if he believed he never needed to consult a dictionary.

 

[LuisDantas]

Please read Paarasurey's post and provide something that is inaccurate, Luis. Please. Otherwise, your statement shuts out accurate information based on Paarasurey's religious affiliation.

This thread should not be a platform for you to air your grievances about Muslims or Islam.

Has Islam even been discussed at any point in this thread? Why even bring it up?

Really, it is all about paying attention to what is actually there in the posts.

I have nothing to add, because there is no need to add anything else.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas ,

I see you have a problem with how Paarasurey implicitly spoke about Atheism.

You said, "It's wrong".

If possible, I would very much like a better understanding of this. For the simple purpose of not miss-speaking about Atheism unintentionally. Please.

You may want to check some ancient posts. @paarsurrey started quite a few threads along the years.

But I was not exagerating or being selective at all when I said that it is an expected trait of Muslim posts about atheism. They are, quite literally, taught to call something that I do not expect to find in the real world by the name "atheism". I am not even quite sure what, but it is certainly not atheism as it actually exists.

It would be refreshing to find an counter-example, in all honesty.