To those opposed to the Israeli Offensive in Gaza

[Flankerl]

Before 1948 Jews,Christians and Muslims lived in harmony and there was no major problem

Murdering non-Zionist Jews of the old Yishuv was no major problem?

 

[beenie]

No you are putting words in my mouth.
An injustice was created in 1948.In order to justify the position you got to rectify the position.Palestine has to be given back to its rightful owners.Do you know how many Palestinians were forced to flee their homes and live as refugees in other countries.What i am saying is justice has to prevail for a lasting peace.Jews,Christians and Muslims can all live together in harmony in one country called Palestine and refugees must return to claim what is rightfully their possessions.

Even I am realistic enough to know that ain't gonna happen. Do you really think Jews and Christians are going to live peacefully under Hamas's rule? The only way all three groups could live peacefully in one nation is to have a secular government. The name of the country is completely irrelevant and prideful.

 

[LuisDantas]

No you are putting words in my mouth.

Hardly. I am instead trying to understand what you are proposing that could be at least conceivably plausible. Saying that Israel should not have been created nearly seventy years ago tells very little about what to do now.

An injustice was created in 1948.In order to justify the position you got to rectify the position.Palestine has to be given back to its rightful owners.Do you know how many Palestinians were forced to flee their homes and live as refugees in other countries.What i am saying is justice has to prevail for a lasting peace.Jews,Christians and Muslims can all live together in harmony in one country called Palestine and refugees must return to claim what is rightfully their possessions.

Okay.

I hope it only looks like you are telling me that you don't care whether the lands were fairly bought back in the 1940s.

I hope I am mistaken in understanding that you are putting considerations of what was supposedly true almost 70 years ago as more significant than what is true now (and involves literally millions of people that were not even born back then, and in both sides of the conflict as well).

I hope so, because if I did understand you correctly, I fear that I can't take what you say very seriously at all. I can't bring myself to consider matters of pride over supposedly ancestral lands as being of comparable importance to matters of actual living conditions of people that are known to exist and be under the stress of warfare.

Worse yet, it looks like the IDF may have little choice but allow itself to be pressed into what may end up being reluctanct, slow and very hurtful genocide after all.

 

[beenie]

Hardly. I am instead trying to understand what you are proposing that could be at least conceivably plausible. Saying that Israel should not have been created nearly seventy years ago tells very little about what to do now.

Okay.

I hope it only looks like you are telling me that you don't care whether the lands were fairly bought back in the 1940s.

I hope I am mistaken in understanding that you are putting considerations of what was supposedly true almost 70 years ago as more significant than what is true now (and involves literally millions of people that were not even born back then, and in both sides of the conflict as well).

I hope so, because if I did understand you correctly, I fear that I can't take what you say very seriously at all. I can't bring myself to consider matters of pride over supposedly ancestral lands as being of comparable importance to matters of actual living conditions of people that are known to exist and be under the stress of warfare.

Worse yet, it looks like the IDF may have little choice but allow itself to be pressed into what may end up being reluctanct, slow and very hurtful genocide after all.

Luis, reading your post and mine, it seems we are on a very similar wave-length, and that makes me happy.

 

[loverOfTruth]

Israeli self-defense ...

http://www.un.org/apps/news/infocus/sgspeeches/statments_full.asp?statID=2314#.U9vmuvk7uG6

 

[farouk]

Do you even have to ask? a quick read of Hamas' charter will give you that answer. Faruk supports the Hamas.

Article Thirty-One: The Members of Other Religions The Hamas is a Humane Movement
Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam, and recent and ancient history is the best witness to that effect. The members of other religions must desist from struggling against Islam over sovereignty in this region. For if they were to gain the upper hand, fighting, torture and uprooting would follow; they would be fed up with each other, to say nothing of members of other religions. The past and the present are full of evidence to that effect. “They will not fight you in body safe in fortified villages or from behind wells. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a folk who have no sense.” Sura 59 (al-Hashr, the Exile), verse 14 Islam accords his rights to everyone who has rights and averts aggression against the rights of others. The Nazi Zionist practices against our people will not last the lifetime of their invasion, for “states built upon oppression last only one hour, states based upon justice will last until the hour of Resurrection.” “Allah forbids you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your houses, that you should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loves the just dealers.” Sura 60 (Al-Mumtahana), verse 8.

The above is from their charter and i don't see why you having a problem accepting their charter.Maybe you should study the entire charter as a whole and not read with one eye closed.

 

[LuisDantas]

Luis, reading your post and mine, it seems we are on a very similar wave-length, and that makes me happy.

The feeling is mutual, fair lady. We can at least hope to agree on what should be sought. That is better than the alternative, if nothing else.

 

[beenie]

The feeling is mutual, fair lady. We can at least hope to agree on what should be sought. That is better than the alternative, if nothing else.

Absolutely.

 

[beenie]

Article Thirty-One: The Members of Other Religions The Hamas is a Humane Movement
Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam, and recent and ancient history is the best witness to that effect. The members of other religions must desist from struggling against Islam over sovereignty in this region. For if they were to gain the upper hand, fighting, torture and uprooting would follow; they would be fed up with each other, to say nothing of members of other religions. The past and the present are full of evidence to that effect. “They will not fight you in body safe in fortified villages or from behind wells. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a folk who have no sense.” Sura 59 (al-Hashr, the Exile), verse 14 Islam accords his rights to everyone who has rights and averts aggression against the rights of others. The Nazi Zionist practices against our people will not last the lifetime of their invasion, for “states built upon oppression last only one hour, states based upon justice will last until the hour of Resurrection.” “Allah forbids you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your houses, that you should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loves the just dealers.” Sura 60 (Al-Mumtahana), verse 8.

The above is from their charter and i don't see why you having a problem accepting their charter.Maybe you should study the entire charter as a whole and not read with one eye closed.

No, having one religion rule the entire region is not acceptable.

 

[icehorse]

Legitimacy of a country is not based on recognition.
This illegitimate state is built on stolen land.

how about purchased land?

 

[icehorse]

Article Thirty-One: The Members of Other Religions The Hamas is a Humane Movement
Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam, and recent and ancient history is the best witness to that effect. The members of other religions must desist from struggling against Islam over sovereignty in this region. For if they were to gain the upper hand, fighting, torture and uprooting would follow; they would be fed up with each other, to say nothing of members of other religions. The past and the present are full of evidence to that effect. “They will not fight you in body safe in fortified villages or from behind wells. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a folk who have no sense.” Sura 59 (al-Hashr, the Exile), verse 14 Islam accords his rights to everyone who has rights and averts aggression against the rights of others. The Nazi Zionist practices against our people will not last the lifetime of their invasion, for “states built upon oppression last only one hour, states based upon justice will last until the hour of Resurrection.” “Allah forbids you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your houses, that you should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loves the just dealers.” Sura 60 (Al-Mumtahana), verse 8.

The above is from their charter and i don't see why you having a problem accepting their charter.Maybe you should study the entire charter as a whole and not read with one eye closed.

Would it be accurate to boil this down to:

Hamas will tolerate other religions as long as Islam is the law and the other religions have dhimmi status?

 

[metis]

Article Thirty-One: The Members of Other Religions The Hamas is a Humane Movement
Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam, and recent and ancient history is the best witness to that effect. The members of other religions must desist from struggling against Islam over sovereignty in this region. For if they were to gain the upper hand, fighting, torture and uprooting would follow; they would be fed up with each other, to say nothing of members of other religions. The past and the present are full of evidence to that effect. “They will not fight you in body safe in fortified villages or from behind wells. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a folk who have no sense.” Sura 59 (al-Hashr, the Exile), verse 14 Islam accords his rights to everyone who has rights and averts aggression against the rights of others. The Nazi Zionist practices against our people will not last the lifetime of their invasion, for “states built upon oppression last only one hour, states based upon justice will last until the hour of Resurrection.” “Allah forbids you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your houses, that you should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loves the just dealers.” Sura 60 (Al-Mumtahana), verse 8.

The above is from their charter and i don't see why you having a problem accepting their charter.Maybe you should study the entire charter as a whole and not read with one eye closed.

Which planet are you posting from? And it's "interesting" that you admire Hamas, a known terrorist organization, so much. Why is it that some of the states near Gaza do not support Hamas and consider them a threat?

Oh, while you're at it, please tell us how so peaceful and tolerant your brand of Islam is whereas we constantly see Muslems killing Muslems and Muslems killing non-Muslems. Tell us how suicide bombers hitting civilian targets in many countries helps to promote peace. Tell us how discriminatory acts against other religions makes for a better world.

 

[xkatz]

Article Thirty-One: The Members of Other Religions The Hamas is a Humane Movement
Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam, and recent and ancient history is the best witness to that effect. The members of other religions must desist from struggling against Islam over sovereignty in this region. For if they were to gain the upper hand, fighting, torture and uprooting would follow; they would be fed up with each other, to say nothing of members of other religions. The past and the present are full of evidence to that effect. “They will not fight you in body safe in fortified villages or from behind wells. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a folk who have no sense.” Sura 59 (al-Hashr, the Exile), verse 14 Islam accords his rights to everyone who has rights and averts aggression against the rights of others. The Nazi Zionist practices against our people will not last the lifetime of their invasion, for “states built upon oppression last only one hour, states based upon justice will last until the hour of Resurrection.” “Allah forbids you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your houses, that you should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loves the just dealers.” Sura 60 (Al-Mumtahana), verse 8.

 

[dantech]

Article Thirty-One: The Members of Other Religions The Hamas is a Humane Movement
Hamas is a humane movement, which cares for human rights and is committed to the tolerance inherent in Islam as regards attitudes towards other religions. It is only hostile to those who are hostile towards it, or stand in its way in order to disturb its moves or to frustrate its efforts. Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam, and recent and ancient history is the best witness to that effect. The members of other religions must desist from struggling against Islam over sovereignty in this region. For if they were to gain the upper hand, fighting, torture and uprooting would follow; they would be fed up with each other, to say nothing of members of other religions. The past and the present are full of evidence to that effect. “They will not fight you in body safe in fortified villages or from behind wells. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are diverse. That is because they are a folk who have no sense.” Sura 59 (al-Hashr, the Exile), verse 14 Islam accords his rights to everyone who has rights and averts aggression against the rights of others. The Nazi Zionist practices against our people will not last the lifetime of their invasion, for “states built upon oppression last only one hour, states based upon justice will last until the hour of Resurrection.” “Allah forbids you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your houses, that you should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loves the just dealers.” Sura 60 (Al-Mumtahana), verse 8.

The above is from their charter and i don't see why you having a problem accepting their charter.Maybe you should study the entire charter as a whole and not read with one eye closed.

I'm speechless at the ignorance....

The sad part is it probably isn't even ignorance, just hate.

But no, you're certainly not anti Semitic

 

[farouk]

how about purchased land?

What purchased land you talking about.
In 1948 +- 800 thousand Palestinians were expelled from their homes.
530 of their villages destroyed and 11 of their urban neighbourhoods were emptied. Massacres, like that at Deir Yaseen, spread fear and terror in the hearts of Palestinian families and forced them to take flight.
By November 1948, Israel completed the occupation of the most fertile and populated areas of Palestine, and by December, it issued "the Emergency Regulations Relative to Property of Absentees".Now this is how an illegitimitate state stole land.

 

[farouk]

Which planet are you posting from? And it's "interesting" that you admire Hamas, a known terrorist organization, so much. Why is it that some of the states near Gaza do not support Hamas and consider them a threat?

Oh, while you're at it, please tell us how so peaceful and tolerant your brand of Islam is whereas we constantly see Muslems killing Muslems and Muslems killing non-Muslems. Tell us how suicide bombers hitting civilian targets in many countries helps to promote peace. Tell us how discriminatory acts against other religions makes for a better world.

So if any political party that opposes your oppression are called terrorists.
What do you call those that carried out the following massacres.
Al-Tira Massacre: December 1947
Haifa Oil Refinery Massacre: December 1947
Balad el-Sheikh Masacre: December 1947
Yehiday Massacre: December 1947
Khisas Massacre: December 1947
Qazaza Massacre: December 1947
Jaffa Massacre: January 1948
Semiramis Hotel (Jerusalem) Massacre: January 1948
Sa'sa' Massacres: February and October 1948
Cairo-Haifa Train Massacre: March 1948
al-Lajjun Massacre: April 1948
Deir Yasin Massacre: April 1948
Qaluniya Massacre: April 1948
Ayn el-Zaytoun Massacre: May 1948
Abu Shusha Massacre: May 1948
al-Tantura Massacre: May 1948
Beit Daras Massacre: May 1948
Lydda Massacre: July 1948
al-Dawayima: Massacre October 1948
Safsaf Massacre: October 1948
Saliha Massacre: October 1948
Eilaboun Massacre: October 1948
Hula Massacre: October 1948…..
and the massacres carry on until this day.
Now what you call these blood thirsty murders of women and children....
Sounds like in your planet you call them freedom fighters.

 

[farouk]

Would it be accurate to boil this down to:

Hamas will tolerate other religions as long as Islam is the law and the other religions have dhimmi status?

Do you know who created Hamas and what was their intent?

 

[xkatz]

Do you know who created Hamas and what was their intent?

Under the shadow of Islam it is possible for the members of the three religions: Islam, Christianity and Judaism to coexist in safety and security. Safety and security can only prevail under the shadow of Islam...

Their intent is establishing dhimmitude.

 

[LuisDantas]

What purchased land you talking about.
In 1948 +- 800 thousand Palestinians were expelled from their homes.
530 of their villages destroyed and 11 of their urban neighbourhoods were emptied. Massacres, like that at Deir Yaseen, spread fear and terror in the hearts of Palestinian families and forced them to take flight.
By November 1948, Israel completed the occupation of the most fertile and populated areas of Palestine, and by December, it issued "the Emergency Regulations Relative to Property of Absentees".Now this is how an illegitimitate state stole land.

I may easily be mistaken, I suppose, but the tale that reached me implies that you are talking about the people that lost their lands due to the 1948 where Israel was the (initial) victim.

Icehorse is probably talking about the lands that made the initial frontiers of Israel and which were approved by the UN. That was a considerably smaller territory, and supposedly all of which was acquired fairly.

 

[metis]

So if any political party that opposes your oppression are called terrorists...

I think it's rather obvious that Hamas is a terrorist organization as most of the world knows, and your support of terrorism makes you a terrorist sympathizer-- period. Israel does not target civilians, but Hamas does, admits it, and brags about it and celebrates it! Your attempt to justify terrorism pretty much tells us more than enough about you and your "peace-loving" religious affiliation.

As far as your list is concerned, I'm not going to waste time going back what occurred or didn't occur 60+ years ago, nor do I trust your list any more than I trust your opinions.