Three Students Found Dead Just Outside of Hebron

[metis]

Bad news: the three Israeli students were found dead not far from Hebron, and Netanyahu has called for an emergency security meeting.: Reports: Missing Israeli teens found dead in West Bank - CNN.com

Besides feeling sadness for the families of the three students, I have a personal concern in that our oldest granddaughter, who is 16, is leaving for Israel tomorrow for a month.

Please keep these families in our prayers.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I have family and friends there, not to mention an oversees relationship with two synagogues. This is terribly sad.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This, from the Times of Israel and Haaretz.

 

[metis]

On CNN, Ben Wedeman stated that when the young men were abducted, Hamas leaders in Gaza celebrated in the streets and passed out candy to the kids there.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Israel's security cabinet has been meeting for about an hour now. The situation is likely to get even uglier very soon.

At a time such as this it is all too easy to simply and angrily dismiss the words of J.J. Goldberg, but we should not.

 

[xkatz]

Baruch Dayan HaEmes

 

[Flankerl]

Well this was to be expected.

 

[dantech]

As saddening as this is, I hope things don't get out of hand now.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As do I.

 

[LAGoff]

I'd like to know what the halakha is about how to treat the arabs in the West Bank areas.
How bad can we treat them?
What are the [halakhic] paramaters in dealing with them (I'm of course talking about the majority of West Bank arabs who are innocent) in relation to the Scriptures [which say that Hashem gave us this Land]?

 

[Moishe3rd]

I'd like to know what the halakha is about how to treat the arabs in the West Bank areas.
How bad can we treat them?
What are the [halakhic] paramaters in dealing with them (I'm of course talking about the majority of West Bank arabs who are innocent) in relation to the Scriptures [which say that Hashem gave us this Land]?

The closest thing to halacha in terms of the Arabs would be to treat them as rodef.
A rodef may be killed after he has been warned to cease pursuing his victim to murder them.

Strangers are welcome in the Land of Israel if they abide by Jewish Law.
However, that is a problem in of itself in that the government of Israel does not abide by Jewish Law.

So, the only real acceptable halacha is to treat those that pursue you to kill you - as murderers and therefore kill them first. This is true anywhere.
It would seem to be more valid for Jews in particular in the Land of Israel.
This I believe.

Baruch Dayan Emes

 

[Phil25]

Can non Jewish post here. Sorry, but I am a new member. And just out of curiosity, what does Baruch Dayan Emes mean?

 

[xkatz]

Can non Jewish post here. Sorry, but I am a new member. And just out of curiosity, what does Baruch Dayan Emes mean?

Blue DIRs are limited to respectful questions and the such for non-members (ie only members who proclaim to adhere to Judaism should attempt to answer questions asked in Judaism DIR).

As for "Baruch Dayan Emes", it is basically an invocation of a prayer that is said after someone dies.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Can non Jewish post here. Sorry, but I am a new member. And just out of curiosity, what does Baruch Dayan Emes mean?

Baruch Dayan Emes means "Blessed is the True Judge."
G-d is the True Judge.
When someone dies, we acknowledge that, even in the midst of tragedy and death, G-d is the True Judge and that He is in control of Everything.
We bless G-d when we think we understand what He does.
And, we bless G-d even if we do not understand what He does.
Baruch Dayan Emes.

 

[CMike]

Very tragic.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What are the [halakhic] paramaters in dealing with them (I'm of course talking about the majority of West Bank arabs who are innocent) in relation to the Scriptures [which say that Hashem gave us this Land]?

The closest thing to halacha in terms of the Arabs would be to treat them as rodef.
A rodef may be killed after he has been warned to cease pursuing his victim to murder them.

And so it goes …

"What can we do to the innocent, those herded behind walls and trapped by checkpoints?" one asks.
"Treat them as rodef, as pursuers, and pursue and kill them." comes the answer.
"But do we not thereby become pursuer and terrorist?" one wonders.
"No, it's OK," we are told, "because HaShem is on our side."​

.. and ever more are 'righteously' killed. Baruch Dayan Emes; Baruch HaShem.

 

[Moishe3rd]

And so it goes …

"What can we do to the innocent, those herded behind walls and trapped by checkpoints?" one asks.
"Treat them as rodef, as pursuers, and pursue and kill them." comes the answer.
"But do we not thereby become pursuer and terrorist?" one wonders.
"No, it's OK," we are told, "because HaShem is on our side."​

.. and ever more are 'righteously' killed. Baruch Dayan Emes; Baruch HaShem.

I would suggest both a gentler and more realistic take on life.
You write as if depressed.
I suspect that comes from your belief that the concept of of "rodef" means that we should just round up people and kill them.
If you stayed away from that kind of thinking, you might feel better.

On the other hand, the reason G-d said that, after warning a person who is pursuing you to kill you, that you should kill them first, is that G-d values human life above all else.
It is not good to simply lie down and die because you don't believe in defending your life by killing another.

 

[metis]

A personal note as my granddaughter arrived in Israel at 8:00 this morning e.s.t. and should be in Jerusalem for the rest of this week and early next week.

On a tragic note, a Palestinian teenager was apparently murdered as a revenge killing, and this is truly pathetic. Fortunately, the reaction there is not to celebrate this senseless killing but to condemn it, and Netanyahu says they will definitely investigate this and that this was uncalled for.

 

[dantech]

A personal note as my granddaughter arrived in Israel at 8:00 this morning e.s.t. and should be in Jerusalem for the rest of this week and early next week.

On a tragic note, a Palestinian teenager was apparently murdered as a revenge killing, and this is truly pathetic. Fortunately, the reaction there is not to celebrate this senseless killing but to condemn it, and Netanyahu says they will definitely investigate this and that this was uncalled for.

It really is pathetic...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The family of murdered boy Naftali Frenkel responded to reports that a body was found in the Jerusalem Forest and said, “If an Arab youth was indeed killed for nationalistic reasons, such an act is shocking and horrifying.”

“There is no difference between blood and blood. Murder is murder, no matter the age and nationality (of the victim). There is no justification, no forgiveness and no atonement for any form of murder,” Naftali’s uncle, Yishai Frenkel, said. [source]

His name was Muhammad Hussein Abu Khdeir. He was 15 years old.