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Three scriptural reasons Barack Obama is the Beast

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by xic, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    Nah, it's 666 and not the aberrant/heretical 616, so it doesn't "fall apart" but it stays quite well together.

    We should not abandon sound exegesis and textual criticism based on sensational newspaper articles which themselves are based on lone or minority manuscripts.

    There are over 280 Greek manuscripts containing Revelation and almost all of them state 666 as the number of the beast. The two oldest papyri are evenly divided in their reading. P115 has 616 and P47 has 666. However the only other ancient manuscript that supports 616 is Codex C/04 from the 5th century. In other words, nearly all the manuscripts hold to the reading of 666, including Codex Alexandrinus and Sinaiticus, and over 80% of our uncial manuscripts.

    Lastly, we also have not only the overwhelming weight of the manuscripts but the writings of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp who is said to have been a disciple of John. He wrote explicitly about the 616 vs. 666 in his treatise "Against the Heresies", Book 5, Chapter 30 (written in the 2nd Century):

    CHAP. XXX.--ALTHOUGH CERTAIN AS TO THE NUMBER OF THE NAME OF ANTICHRIST, YET WE SHOULD COME TO NO RASH CONCLUSIONS AS TO THE NAME ITSELF, BECAUSE THIS NUMBER IS CAPABLE OF BEING FITTED TO MANY NAMES. REASONS FOR THIS POINT BEING RESERVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. ANTICHRIST'S REIGN AND DEATH.

    1. Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies(3) [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end),--I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.](4) Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be granted them by God. But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory, lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who confided in them. ​

    Of course, this wasn't mentioned in the newspapers.
     
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  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Well, as "sound exegesis" doesn't seem to be part of your presentation, I am not sure where you are coming from. The "another beast", the "beast with two horns like a lamb", follows the 6th head of the beast, the Augustus Caesar, who was present at the writing of the book of Revelation, which makes the "another beast", the 7th head. The last beast, the 8th, the one that "was and is not" was the 5th head of the beast "Julius Caesar", who was "slain" and "healed" as the Augustus Caesars. It is the 10 horns of the 8th head of the beast who will hate, persecute, make naked, and burn the "harlot" with fire. The "harlot", being Judah, the Jews, who were persecuted, hated, made naked, by such leaders/horns, as Hitler, Stalin communist state, the king of Spain as part of the Inquisition, etc. The 7th head of the beast, who was the "beast with two horns like a lamb" was Constantine, who deceived the world by way of his Roman/Babylonian church, whose two horns like a lamb, two Christ like leaders were the lawless false prophet Paul, and the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:16-17) Peter.

    Trump, unlike the closet Muslim Obama, supports Israel, and the Jews. It is Obama who gave the Iranians 150 billion dollars to crush Israel, and the Jews, as well as the USA. No, you seem to miss the whole point of the demon spirits of Revelation 16:13 gathering all the kings of the earth to Har-Magedon. The "demon spirit" belongs to the dead 5th head of the beast, Julius Caesar. It was Obama, one of the 10 horns of the 8th beast, who set up the Paris meeting whereas 120 nations signed a proclamation decrying Israel. The newspaper regarding 616, simply quoted the academics, they didn't do the leg work. All the later manuscripts used 666, because once the error started, who was to change it back, since only those "who has understanding" can decipher it (Revelation 13:18), and that rules out the "wicked" per Daniel 12:10, which rules out Constantine's Roman "Christian" church, which follows the lead of the false prophet Paul, who is one of the horns like a lamb. The other horn being Peter.
     
    #102 2ndpillar, Mar 13, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  3. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Obama has nothing to do with Revelation, nor does Stalin, Hitler or the King of Spain.

    Nero committed suicide with help and it was feared he would return from the dead and restart the persecutions.... crossing the Euphrates with an army of Parthians.

    The names you are looking for are : Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Vespasian, Titus, Domitian, Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninius Pius, Marcus Aurelius..

    Why does your church teach such hatred of Peter, Paul and Constantine?
     
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  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You should tread lightly when relying on early church "fathers". After the "day of distress" that being "Jacob distress" (Jeremiah 30:7), and the nations/Gentiles real distress (Jeremiah 30:11), which would be "Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:13-16), or in the language of Joel 3:2 & 12), YHWH's valley of judgment for the nations, the "nations"/Gentiles will confess "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood" (Jeremiah 16:19). What is said to have been true, is not necessarily true.
     
  5. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Oh, will this nonsense ever stop?!
     
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  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Not quite right. The 6th head of the beast had 10 horns between the period of the sacking of Jerusalem by Pompey and Titus, when you include Titus. You skipped 3 emperors in that time frame, and added 3 that were not included in that time frame. Revelation is about Jerusalem, and while Hadrian put down a revolt in Jerusalem, it was already in ruins. As for Nero, there are myths about Nero to fill the holes in church dogma. As for Hitler, and Revelation 17:16, Hitler fulfilled it perfectly as one of the 10 horns of the 8th head of the beast, not the 10 horns of the 6th head of the beast who where already dead. Hitler hated the Jews/"harlot", and "will make her desolate, and naked, and will eat her flesh, and will burn her up with fire" (Revelation 17:16). The "beast" was given their kingdom "until the words of God should be fulfilled" (Revelation 17:17). Well Judah and Jerusalem have now been "restored" (Joel 3:1), and now the "valley of judgment" for the nations is at hand (Joel 3:2), and the kingdoms of all the heads of the beast will be crushed (Daniel 2:35), "all at the same time". And why do you make saints out of Peter, Paul, and Constantine. Did not Peter deny Christ and fall into a lake, be led by Satan, while Paul killed and persecuted the followers of Yeshua, and Constantine killed his son and wife? What is your attraction to these guys?
     
  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Soon enough to please even the most ardent of masochist.
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    69 AD, was a year in the history of the Roman Empire in which four emperors ruled in succession: Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian.

    Israel hasn't been restored.. They don't have a king.

    None of them are involved in Revelation or the Book of Daniel.. and none of them were perfect.. but that was over 1600 years ago. Why the hate?

    Daniel 2:31-45

    The statue composed of four different metals represents the succession of empires that were to rule over Israel before the establishment of the fifth kingdom, the kingdom of God. Babylon is the head of gold; Medo-Persia, the chest and arms of silver; Greece, the belly and thighs of bronze; and Rome, the fourth kingdom, is the legs of iron.
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The "house of Israel" (Ezekiel 36:17) which is "Ephraim", and which is "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:19) hasn't been joined with Judah, the "house of Judah" (Ezekiel 37:15-28), but "Judah", and "Jerusalem" have been "restored" (Joel 3:1). Now is the time for the "valley of judgment" for the nations, which is also called Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:13-19). At that time "Judah" and "Eprhaim" will be reunited under King David, on the land "I gave to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37:24-25).

    As for Daniel 2:33, you left out the "its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay". The feet of iron and partly of clay represent the 10 toes/kings/horns of the 8th beast (Revelation 17:11), partly of Roman blood, and partly of the blood of Edom/Esau/Muslims. All the kingdoms above have been crushed per Daniel 2:34, but they have not been all crushed at the same time (Daniel 2:35). The KSA does not fear Iran for nothing. Iran plans to crush Israel, and hopefully in their minds, the U.S., and the KSA is in the middle. Apparently you are in the middle as well. If you simply stock up on some kind of seasoning that goes well with locust, you shouldn't go hungry during the 5 months the locust will live (Revelation 9:5). You have to be careful of their stinging tail like a scorpion (Revelation 9:5). Well, fire also comes out of their mouths (Revelation 9:17).
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Iran will NEVER attack Israel. If you think they will, you know absolutely NOTHING about the Middle East.
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You would think not, but who are they going to use their nuclear weapons on, KSA? A lot of sanctions to live through for them to let their toys go unused. I know my history well enough to know that Shia have been killing Sunni for a long time, whether with guns or gas. Now they have nuclear capability from Pakistan, with missile technology from Russia and North Korea. And now KSA wants nukes. You need to read the book "Hiroshima". The same passage in that book describing the carnage, is equivalent to that found in Zechariah 14:12, which is a description of the valley of judgment/Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:16). In Zechariah 14:13, it tells how one hand will be lifted against another, with respect to those trying to capture Jerusalem. The same thing happened in the Crusades. A couple of knights riding some horses, or a ragtag bunch of farmer with pitch forks didn't defeat the whole Muslim nations. The Crusaders simply turned one sect of Islam against another. If the Shia think they can kill the Jews, and kill the Sunni at the same time, what do they have to lose? The Iranian Shia have a nice section in Jeremiah with respect to their missiles, and their down fall. Keep in mind that the Iranian missile site is located in an area once called "Elam" (Jeremiah 49:35-37).

    Jeremiah 49:35-37 35This is what the LORD Almighty says: "See, I will break the bow of Elam, the mainstay of their might. 36I will bring against Elam the four winds from the four quarters of heaven; I will scatter them to the four winds, and there will not be a nation where Elam's exiles do not go. 37I will shatter Elam before their foes, before those who want to kill them; I will bring disaster on them, even my fierce anger," declares the LORD. "I will pursue them with the sword until I have made an end of them.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    KSA will probably get nukes.. They are building nuclear desalination plants that also generate cheap electricity. Iran isn't going to nuke Israel. KSA paid for Pakistan to get nukes as a checkmate to India years ago anyway.

    Sunni and Shia get along quite well in Arabia. Shia are successful in the oil industry and in the merchant class.

    There are 21 "sites" in Iran and not all of them are in Elam.

    Locusts aren't a problem. They are a boon and arrive when the wind brings rain right behind them.. If they stick around more than 5 days there are larva hatching everywhere and the desert gets a massive dose of organic fertilizer.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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  14. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense! When America seized land from the Indians, it did not “give” the Indians land by sticking them on a reservation. As Sooda very patiently informed you previously Obama did not “give” Iran anything. . We took Iranian assets and then we returned them. It’s as simple as that.

    Look, when I deposit $100.00 bucks in a bank on Monday and ask for the same hundred bucks on Thursday, has the bank “given” me any money???

    Only in the world of @2ndpillar.

    Then you’ve already eliminated Obama from the equation. The anti-Christ will establish a covenant with Israel, not an anti-Israel Paris summit (Daniel 9:27). I think you’re confusing the two.

    Yep, the anti-Christ will initially be a friend to Israel and establish a covenant…right before he breaks it, and since you’ve already eliminated Obama for us it looks like Trump is footing the bill.

    Nah, the anti-Christ is a deceiver, and even though he hides in plain sight, with a big ‘666’ emblazoned on one of his office buildings, some cannot decipher it.

    He will set up the “abomination that causes desolation”. Last time it was Antiochus Epiphanes IV with a statue of Zeus. Who knows? Next time it could be a 6 foot portrait of Trump.

    Trump buys a 6’ portrait of himself using charity money

    Money, vanity, the number six and an end run around our tax laws… just the kind of shenanigans we expect an anti-Christ would be involved in.

    I’m afraid the "evidence" is looking a lot stronger for Trump than it ever did for Obama.
     
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  15. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    LOLOLOL.. :D I won't be matching wits with you!
     
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  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The "Indians" hadn't vowed to destroy Israel and the U.S., and were not producing nuclear weapons. What good are sanctions, when you give Iran 150 billion dollars, delivered in black planes, without notifying Congress. There was a reason the Iranian money was frozen in the U.S., and it wasn't wise for the closet Muslim, Obama, to release it. But never fear, it was necessary to give Iran the funds so that they could try and crush Israel and the U.S., to fulfill Scripture (Joel 3:2). The prophecy for the return of the Mahdi to Iran, was prayed for at the U.N. in 2008. What happened in 2008?

    In a speech to parliament, Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Sunday vowed to destroy the U.S., which he held responsible for distorting the world’s values and starting indiscriminate wars. According to semi-official news agency Fars, Khamenei said,”Battle and jihad are endless because evil and its front continue to exist.
    iran vows to destroy america - Bing

    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2006/09/20/ahmadinejad_prays...
    So Ahmadinejad basically goes to the UN last night to pray for the end of the world, and if you have any background you know he wants it to happen in his lifetime during his leadership in Iran .
     
  17. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    For God's sake Israel has been threatening Iran every quarter since they finally paid off the $100 million dollar debt for Iranian oil from 1979... They have been threatening Iran ever since ..

    Fear has worked for Bibi and Ariel Sharon.. Its the glue that holds their power together in Israel.
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Your version of the "antichrist" rant has no Scriptural basis. The "antichrist" term was mentioned by John, and was with respect to "is now in the world" (1 John 4:3), and "they went out from us" (1 John 2:18). You are twisting the testimony of the false prophet Paul, who misdirects to some coming man of lawlessness, when he is the man of lawlessness. Like the Iranians, he is somewhat correct, in that the man of lawlessness, will be revealed at the "end of the age", and "gathered out" (Matthew 13:41), and until that time, the "tares", such as Paul, will be protected against harm (Matthew 13:27-29). The "beast" of Revelation 16:13 is not the "antichrist", for he is the unclean spirit of the dead 5th head of the beast of Revelation 17:10-11, the one "who was", who was the dictator Julius Caesar. As for Daniel 9:27, get real, we are in the last half of the last week, which is "time, times, and half a time" per Daniel 7:25 & 12:7. You are trying to read Scripture under the dark light of Paul's testimony, and are apparently going around in circles. But fear not, for apparently the "many" walk beside you (Matthew 7:13).
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    He made it clear the antichrsts were former members of the followers of Jesus
     
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And why is it that a supposed "Christian" hates Israel so much. As for Israel threatening someone, I have not heard of it, that is not how they generally operate. They, unlike Obama, do not broadcast their intentions. Do you not know that those who bless Israel, are blessed, and those who curse Israel are cursed. (Genesis 12:3) As for Israel holding together, if you had read your bible, you would have noticed it is their neighbors who are planning to "wipe them out as a nation" (Psalms 83). It didn't happen in 1967, nor in 1973, and the neighbors lost ground in both wars. In the next war it will not go so well for the neighbors, as "Edom will become a desolate wilderness" (Joel 3:19), and "Judah will be inhabited forever" (Joel 3:20), and "I will avenge the their blood which I have not avenged" (Joel 3:21). You had better stock up on locust soy sauce. As for Iran relations after the debt situation, Iran went to Israel to get arms to fight Iraq. Israel had no reason to threaten Iran over an oil debt. The Iranians simply took Israel to court. While lawyers are somewhat strange, I don't think they were negotiating with swords.

    New American Standard Bible Genesis 12:3
    And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
     
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