Three days and three nights?

[Brickjectivity]

Hi Brickjectivity, I'm sorry to hear that you feel the events may not have happened. And concerning the peace offering, why couldn't any of it be eaten ON the third day, that it had to be eaten on the first two days? The third day did not come into play as you assumed with the peace offering.

Nothing to be sorry about. Life is a gift. The peace offering could be eaten during the third day so long as nothing was left over and any remains were burned before the fourth day. (I don't remember suggesting it had to be eaten on the second day. If so, please strike it from the record.)

If Yeshua wanted to express the darkness of the age, why mention there are 12 hours in the day? When He specifically mentioned that He would be in the tomb for three days and three nights, He meant three 12 hour days, and three 12 hour nights. He was in the tomb for exactly 72 hours, and this can be proven convincingly by closely looking at the Scriptures. KB

Twelve hours = a half day. The passage in question is a discussion between Jesus and his disciples about whether he should return to Judea since the Jews there had just tried to stone him. It is not a discussion about the length of a day, so you are imposing that aspect onto it. I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, but you are putting something in there experimentally. When he mentions the 12 hour day he is talking about light & dark and being able to see versus stumbling in the dark. That 'Stumbling' is related to stoning, the fact that certain Jews wanted to stone him. (Achan was stoned for bringing trouble upon Israel, causing Israel to stumble. see Joshua 7:25) Those Jews, then, judged that Jesus was causing the nation to stumble -- hence that he should be stoned. This explains why Jesus begins to discuss day & night and stumbling or not. Jesus says "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world's light...." Jesus implied that the nation had stumbled because there was darkness in those times, a dark age. The Jews that had tried to stone him were walking in darkness. They sensed a problem in their nation but misunderstood the cause. Jesus did not explicitly explain it to his disciples, but given these conditions it behooved him to go to those in darkness that had stumbled and help them to get up. Whether his disciples understood it that way or not, his disciples did not question him further on the subject. Perhaps they, like us, did not know what the heck he was talking about.

 

[Brickjectivity]

He was in the tomb for exactly 72 hours, and this can be proven convincingly by closely looking at the Scriptures. KB

Mentioning this part, specially; its fine as long as he is resurrected a hair before the fourth day.

 

[Ken Brown]

Nothing to be sorry about. Life is a gift. The peace offering could be eaten during the third day so long as nothing was left over and any remains were burned before the fourth day. (I don't remember suggesting it had to be eaten on the second day. If so, please strike it from the record.)

Hi Brickjectivity, you are mistaken about the peace offering. It could ONLY be eaten on the first two days after it was offered, if any remained ON the third day, it could not be eaten, but rather burned:

Lev 19:5-7
(5) And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto Yahweh, ye shall offer it at your own will.
(6) It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire.
(7) And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted.

Lev 7:18
(18) And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination, and the soul that eateth of it shall bear his iniquity.

I'm sorry to inform you Brickjectivity, but you need to go back to the drawing board on your thinking with respect to the third day eating of the peace offerings.

Did you know that in the eating of the Passover, it could ONLY be eaten that first night, and it had to be eaten in haste with staff in hand, loins girded, and sandals on your feet, and if any remained unto the next morning, it had to be burned with fire:

Exo 12:10-11
(10) And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
(11) And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is Yahweh's Passover.

Why do you think there is a difference between the eating of the Passover and the eating of the Peace Offering? KB

 

[Ken Brown]

Twelve hours = a half day. The passage in question is a discussion between Jesus and his disciples about whether he should return to Judea since the Jews there had just tried to stone him. It is not a discussion about the length of a day, so you are imposing that aspect onto it. I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, but you are putting something in there experimentally. When he mentions the 12 hour day he is talking about light & dark and being able to see versus stumbling in the dark. That 'Stumbling' is related to stoning, the fact that certain Jews wanted to stone him. (Achan was stoned for bringing trouble upon Israel, causing Israel to stumble. see Joshua 7:25) Those Jews, then, judged that Jesus was causing the nation to stumble -- hence that he should be stoned. This explains why Jesus begins to discuss day & night and stumbling or not. Jesus says "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? Anyone who walks in the daytime will not stumble, for they see by this world's light...." Jesus implied that the nation had stumbled because there was darkness in those times, a dark age. The Jews that had tried to stone him were walking in darkness. They sensed a problem in their nation but misunderstood the cause. Jesus did not explicitly explain it to his disciples, but given these conditions it behooved him to go to those in darkness that had stumbled and help them to get up. Whether his disciples understood it that way or not, his disciples did not question him further on the subject. Perhaps they, like us, did not know what the heck he was talking about.

Hi Brickjectivity, the only aspect I am imposing is simple logic. If Yeshua says in one instance that the ONLY sign He would give to prove His authority would be a sign where He would be in the tomb for three days and three nights, and then in another Scripture He states the fact that there are twelve hours in the day, isn't it only logical to assume that He was saying the sign would be three 12 hour days, and three 12 hour nights? If I told you there are 60 seconds in a minute, and then later I told you that I would call you in 10 minutes, wouldn't you logically assume that I would call you in 10 sixty second minutes, or would you just assume those minutes would be 30 seconds or 15 seconds? Please Brickjectivity, look at this issue logically. Yeshua was three days and three nights in the tomb (72 hours) for His sign to be accurate. KB

 

[Brickjectivity]

Hi Brickjectivity, you are mistaken about the peace offering. It could ONLY be eaten on the first two days after it was offered, if any remained ON the third day, it could not be eaten, but rather burned:

Oh, yes.

I'm sorry to inform you Brickjectivity, but you need to go back to the drawing board on your thinking with respect to the third day eating of the peace offerings.

I seem to have forgotten the text of Leviticus 7:18. Thanks for pointing it out.

Did you know that in the eating of the Passover, it could ONLY be eaten that first night, and it had to be eaten in haste with staff in hand, loins girded, and sandals on your feet, and if any remained unto the next morning, it had to be burned with fire:

Yes, and actually the food was supposed to be carefully estimated beforehand to try and ensure that there would be enough and not too much.

Why do you think there is a difference between the eating of the Passover and the eating of the Peace Offering? KB

Are you asking why do I think there's a difference in the number of days in which its allowed to be eaten?

Hi Brickjectivity, the only aspect I am imposing is simple logic.

Is that a quote from Star Trek IV : The Voyage Home ? With respect, do I detect a Trekkie?

If Yeshua says in one instance that the ONLY sign He would give to prove His authority would be a sign where He would be in the tomb for three days and three nights, and then in another Scripture He states the fact that there are twelve hours in the day, isn't it only logical to assume that He was saying the sign would be three 12 hour days, and three 12 hour nights? If I told you there are 60 seconds in a minute, and then later I told you that I would call you in 10 minutes, wouldn't you logically assume that I would call you in 10 sixty second minutes, or would you just assume those minutes would be 30 seconds or 15 seconds? Please Brickjectivity, look at this issue logically. Yeshua was three days and three nights in the tomb (72 hours) for His sign to be accurate. KB

I'm sorry but I still think that the two scriptures are not related in the sense that you are gluing them together. He quips that there are 12 hours in a day in chapter 11 in the midst of a conversation about light & darkness, stumbling, stoning, and returning to Jerusalem or not. He makes a complex answer. If he wanted to say that he would be dead for exactly 72 hours he could have done so, but he purposely didn't say so directly. It is left up to you to decide if the 12 hours is important for deciphering the length of time he'd be in the tomb. Its similar to the question of why no one ever provides his exact date of birth. They could have told us, but they withheld that information. Simple logic would require a simpler situation where Jesus was talking exclusively about time, but his quip about 12 hours was in reply to a comment about Jews that were trying to stone him. That means there is not a simple conversation to use simple logic with, unless you can eliminate all other questions in the text; but this conversation of Jesus has many things going on in it. Most people skip it, because its a weird conversation.

Thanks for pointing out that previous oversight about the peace offerings!

 

[Ken Brown]

Are you asking why do I think there's a difference in the number of days in which its allowed to be eaten?

Hi Brickjectivity, yes. KB

 

[Brickjectivity]

Its an interesting thought experiment. I will give it some more thought.

 

[ZooGirl02]

This link from Catholic Answers can help explain this dilemma:

Was Christ really in the tomb for three days? | Catholic Answers

I hope this helps.

 

[Poisonshady313]

This link from Catholic Answers can help explain this dilemma:

Was Christ really in the tomb for three days? | Catholic Answers

I hope this helps.

It's a terrible answer. It's woefully inaccurate.

Let me share with you something I mentioned earlier in this thread.

We learn from Moses being on the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights that days are days, nights are nights, and that any part of a day is NOT regarded as a whole day. Such a mistake as the one you're making is the reason why the sin of the golden calf happened. They started counting from the moment Moses started to ascend the mountain, instead of properly counting starting from the sundown after he started as night one. So when Moses didn't arrive half a day before he actually did, they despaired, thought he was dead, and the sin of the golden calf happened.

There certainly is a difference between "third day" and "after three days and three nights". After three days and three nights is essentially another way of saying "fourth night" (because the night comes before the day.)

If you take a meatloaf out of the oven after 45 minutes, it cannot be said that it was in the oven for an hour.

 

[ZooGirl02]

It's a terrible answer. It's woefully inaccurate.

Let me share with you something I mentioned earlier in this thread.

We learn from Moses being on the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights that days are days, nights are nights, and that any part of a day is NOT regarded as a whole day. Such a mistake as the one you're making is the reason why the sin of the golden calf happened. They started counting from the moment Moses started to ascend the mountain, instead of properly counting starting from the sundown after he started as night one. So when Moses didn't arrive half a day before he actually did, they despaired, thought he was dead, and the sin of the golden calf happened.

There certainly is a difference between "third day" and "after three days and three nights". After three days and three nights is essentially another way of saying "fourth night" (because the night comes before the day.)

If you take a meatloaf out of the oven after 45 minutes, it cannot be said that it was in the oven for an hour.

I understand what you are saying but I will have to respectfully disagree. I do believe the article I quoted is correct. Catholic Answers is a very good resource and I have found them to be correct on just about anything I have ever searched for on there. I am not saying the site or the answers on the site is infallible... not by any means. However, I have personally found the site to be quite accurate the vast majority of the time.

 

[ZooGirl02]

PoisonShady313, could you please tell me what you think of this explanation?

Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Jesus' "Three Days and Three Nights" in the Tomb: Is it a Biblical Contradiction?

 

[Poisonshady313]

I understand what you are saying but I will have to respectfully disagree. I do believe the article I quoted is correct. Catholic Answers is a very good resource and I have found them to be correct on just about anything I have ever searched for on there. I am not saying the site or the answers on the site is infallible... not by any means. However, I have personally found the site to be quite accurate the vast majority of the time.

Consider for a moment that a Jew is telling you that a Catholic site is mistaken about its assertion regarding how Jews reckon days.

The article you quoted provides the typical response... yet it's just as accurate as the claim that Jews have horns.

It's easy to just make something up, say "this is what those people believe" without actually knowing/learning what those people believe.

 

[Poisonshady313]

PoisonShady313, could you please tell me what you think of this explanation?

Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Jesus' "Three Days and Three Nights" in the Tomb: Is it a Biblical Contradiction?

It's a terrible explanation. It repeats the same assertion over and over again without providing any support.

 

[ZooGirl02]

It's a terrible explanation. It repeats the same assertion over and over again without providing any support.

I thought it provided support. It quoted an example from the Old Testament where this principle is used. How is that not support?

 

[Ken Brown]

PoisonShady313, could you please tell me what you think of this explanation?

Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Jesus' "Three Days and Three Nights" in the Tomb: Is it a Biblical Contradiction?

Hi ZooGirl02, I know you asked PoisonShady313 the question, but I felt it would be good to chime in. One of the first assertions of the article speaks volumes:

Quote from Catholicism:
We know that Jesus was crucified on a Friday because Scripture tells us that the Sabbath (Saturday) as approaching (e.g., Mt 27:62, Mk 15:42, Lk 23:54, Jn 19:31 - the "day of preparation" is Friday, the day before the Sabbath: Saturday, and the Sabbath was considered to begin on sundown on Friday, as with Jews to this day).

You see ZooGirl02, their logic that ONLY Friday can be a "day of preparation" and ONLY Saturday can be a Sabbath is completely false. The 14th day of Nissan is Passover, and on the 14th, it was a "day of preparation" for the Sabbath which ALWAYS follows Passover--the 15th of Nissan, the 1st day of Unleavened Bread (Exo 12:16, Lev 23:7, Num 28:16-18). In the article, they even reference John 19:31, and John specifically mentions that this Sabbath was a "high day" or "special Sabbath," depending on the translation used. In the year that Yeshua was killed, the 14th of Nissan was the "day of preparation" for killing the lambs and preparing for the Seder that began later that Wednesday evening on the 15th of Nissan.

The sun set around 6:00 p.m. on that Wednesday evening, just as Yeshua was being placed in the tomb. He remained in the tomb for three days and three nights, and was resurrected Saturday evening right at sunset, around 6:00 p.m. Hope this helps. KB

 

[Shiranui117]

Hi ZooGirl02, I know you asked PoisonShady313 the question, but I felt it would be good to chime in. One of the first assertions of the article speaks volumes:

You see ZooGirl02, their logic that ONLY Friday can be a "day of preparation" and ONLY Saturday can be a Sabbath is completely false. The 14th day of Nissan is Passover, and on the 14th, it was a "day of preparation" for the Sabbath which ALWAYS follows Passover--the 15th of Nissan, the 1st day of Unleavened Bread (Exo 12:16, Lev 23:7, Num 28:16-18). In the article, they even reference John 19:31, and John specifically mentions that this Sabbath was a "high day" or "special Sabbath," depending on the translation used. In the year that Yeshua was killed, the 14th of Nissan was the "day of preparation" for killing the lambs and preparing for the Seder that began later that Wednesday evening on the 15th of Nissan.

The sun set around 6:00 p.m. on that Wednesday evening, just as Yeshua was being placed in the tomb. He remained in the tomb for three days and three nights, and was resurrected Saturday evening right at sunset, around 6:00 p.m. Hope this helps. KB

My question to you then is, if it's so obvious that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday, then why is this witness not present in the early Church? Why does no one, neither the Apostles, nor the Apostolic Fathers, nor anyone else, hold that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday? The Wednesday Crucifixion is a recent teaching, and to boot, it's a minority one among scholars. How do you explain that?

 

[Ken Brown]

My question to you then is, if it's so obvious that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday, then why is this witness not present in the early Church? Why does no one, neither the Apostles, nor the Apostolic Fathers, nor anyone else, hold that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday? The Wednesday Crucifixion is a recent teaching, and to boot, it's a minority one among scholars. How do you explain that?

Hi Shiranui117, I would be interested to see the first mention by any ancient writers that state Yeshua was crucified on Friday. Where in the early Church does it state a Friday crucifixion?

Also, the reason it's a minority among scholars is because when someone get's caught with their pants down, they usually try to cover up. KB

 

[Poisonshady313]

I thought it provided support. It quoted an example from the Old Testament where this principle is used. How is that not support?

It quoted an example of the phrase being used. However, the passage from Samuel does not at all support the argument being made by the article.

 

[Poisonshady313]

If anything, the passage from Samuel supports MY argument. "three days ago" means that today is the fourth day. i.e. today is today. Yesterday is one day ago. two days ago is two days ago. Three days ago is three days ago.

If Jesus was supposed to be "in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights"... coming out at any time before the fourth night (remember, night comes before day) would make Jesus a liar.

Think of baseball. If the pitcher is in the game for three innings, it means three full innings. If he is in for only the first two and a part of the third inning, he is said to have been in the game for 2 and a third or 2 and two thirds innings.

The incident of Moses on the mountain and the sin of the golden calf, as I described twice already in this thread, is biblical proof that what I'm saying is right.
Exodus 24:18 ...and Moses was upon the mountain forty days and forty nights.

Look at chapter 32 of Exodus. The people were one day off.

That's because they started counting the moment Moses started to ascend the mountain, instead of properly counting by starting at sundown after he started to ascend the mountain. Because we learn from Genesis one that the night comes before the day. So when they started with the second half of a day, instead of beginning at the start of a whole day, they were wrong.

 

[Shiranui117]

Hi Shiranui117, I would be interested to see the first mention by any ancient writers that state Yeshua was crucified on Friday. Where in the early Church does it state a Friday crucifixion?

Also, the reason it's a minority among scholars is because when someone get's caught with their pants down, they usually try to cover up. KB

Justin Martyr, writing around 150 AD, says this explicitly in his First Apology, chapter 67:

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.​

The day before Saturday is Friday, as we all know.

In addition, the Didache (written in the first century) equates the "Day of Preparation" with Friday, since on Friday, people would "prepare" for the Sabbath, doing all necessary tasks before the Sabbath, since no work could be done on the Sabbath.

But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week. Rather, fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday).
​

In case you're confused on what the Didache is talking about, the Didache is instructing the Christians when to fast during the week. The hypocrites (and I assume this means the Pharisees here, but the identity of the "hypocrites" doesn't matter too terribly much) fast twice a week, on the second day (Monday) and the fifth day (Thursday). The Didache is telling us to fast twice a week as well, but not on Monday and Thursday, but on Wednesday (the day that Judas agreed to betray Christ) and Friday (the day that Christ was crucified). That is why we Christians fast on Wednesday and Friday. Those two days weren't pulled out of a hat.