Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
With an attitude like the OP, it's no wonder that so many people outright reject a religion that condemns people to hell like that.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Those who don't enjoin truth deserve hell forever.
- Thread starter Link
- Start date
With an attitude like the OP, it's no wonder that so many people outright reject a religion that condemns people to hell like that.
Orbit
I'm a planet
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
What is truth to you, may not be truth to others.
What you do is condemning others, but you dont show them the "right" way to live. Often you accuse and use anger to herd people toward what you yourself want people to be,
If you want people to find truth as you see it, you are better of living as an example of righteous living, instead of using anger.
For not following the truth? I'm saying irrelevant of religion, say even no God, not enjoining truth has consequences that are evil and the intention is evil. If no such thing as God or hell, they still deserve it.
The truth is irrelevant if I'm on it or not. I'm saying in theory, people who don't want the truth deserve hell forever. This is regardless if there is a true religion or not.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Part of the right way to live, is enjoining good and forbidding evil and enjoining truth. If it comes out as being "angry" at evil people so be it.
PureX
Veteran Member
Because there are no evil people. Only people who have done some evil things. And we have all done some evil things.
Evil things have evil intentions. Intentions are states people are during actions. Do enough of that in your life, and you are evil.
PureX
Veteran Member
Never entirely, though. Which is why hell for eternity is unjust.
Last edited:
I see no evidence of this.
IMO, if you actually cared about truth, you would have applied more of a critical lens to your own beliefs.
Last edited:
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
In your own life yes.
We are always in a situation we have to swipe our own path first, before we tell others what is good to do.
But if we have not clean out our own evil, how can we do it onto others?
Ella S.
*temp banned*
Truth is a means to an end. It can be used for evil, just as deception can be used for good. If a genocidal dictator demanded that I tell them where I hid their would-be victims, I'd lie to them to send them on a wild goose chase and give said victims more time to get away. I see that as good, not evil.
Aside from that, none of us can be completely certain that what we think we know is true, and so "enjoining truth" could be seen as impossible. You'd condemn all of humanity as evil that way, which I think just makes the word "evil" lose its meaning.
On top of everything else, you make the case that evil people deserve punishment. I simply disagree with this entirely. I think punishment itself is evil, because all it does is cause more harm. It doesn't help anyone. Maybe trouble-makers need to be separated from the people they might hurt, but not to punish them; it's to protect others from their bad behavior.
Aside from that, none of us can be completely certain that what we think we know is true, and so "enjoining truth" could be seen as impossible. You'd condemn all of humanity as evil that way, which I think just makes the word "evil" lose its meaning.
On top of everything else, you make the case that evil people deserve punishment. I simply disagree with this entirely. I think punishment itself is evil, because all it does is cause more harm. It doesn't help anyone. Maybe trouble-makers need to be separated from the people they might hurt, but not to punish them; it's to protect others from their bad behavior.
PureX
Veteran Member
Some might say that attitude is 'evil'.
Last edited:
Since most religions and philosophies seem to get at the same thing, I'm going to accept your statement. Lying is very evil.
God and His messengers don't like to be "put aside."
"You plug 'em, I plant 'em." (Undertaker's slogan in the cartoon Tumbleweeds, with Calvin and Hobbs). It means, you kill them and I will bury them.
"Don't enjoin truth"....When someone calls Khomeni (former Iranian leader) great, we should at least try to understand why he killed. Islamics seem to cover up the truth, possibly for fear that God will get them, and possibly for fear that Khomeni will get them. Khomeni made a fatwa against Solmon Rushdie (like a Mafia hit...trying to kill him) for writing a book (Satanic Verses) that cast Islam in a poor light.
The holy words of Islam (from various sources...books and human leaders), are, at the very least, confusing to those who engage in terrorism. This might be why there have been so many acts of terrorism around the world. European nations have suffered bombings, the US suffered the 911 attack (and previous truck bombings of the same World Trade tower buildings), and numerous bombings, as well. Israel is under constant bombardment, and that forced them to take measures to protect Jews and Palestineans alike. Then the Palestineans argue that they are innocent and restricted (they have to be because they live in a war zone of their own making). Apparently the world isn't big enough for Jews and Arabs (or other Middle Easterners) to live in the same general region without killing each other. Shared holy sites, and shared land is not working out, nor is the land for peace offer (they have the land, but where is the peace?).
"Not enjoining the truth can lead to wars." Wars are also fought over truthful statements. Palestineans claim that Israelis killed some of their members, and Jews claim that Palestineans previously killed some of their members, then Jews claim that the Palestineans previously killed some of their members, etc. Since the hostilities have continued for thousands of years, there are thousands of years of bickering to resolve with violence.
Peace is achieved when we say (we are where we are). We don't look a past wrongs, but attempt to forge a peace today, regardless of who has harmed whom in the past.
The United States has a tradition of not dealing with terrorists. This is because we don't want to give into demands of one group of terrorists, or it will encourage other groups to do terrorist acts to get their way as well. It has been long established that terrorism is not a valid way of negotiating. But, this puts small groups on awkward footing, since the US and its military is far larger, armed better, funded better, and trained better. How, then, does a small nation or smaller group gain the ability to discuss grievances? Most can't.
The US has to recognize that Middle Eastern terrorists might be freedom fighters, attempting to kick off interlopers (though Jews have pointed out that they have lived in the region for thousands of years and are not interlopers). The US has to open dialogs with the terrorists.
The United States worries that if such negotiations are public, the messages of the terrorists will spread around the world and that would recruit more people (perhaps terrorists) to their cause. Thus, the US wants all such negotiations to be private. But that doesn't satisfy a group that wants to appeal to the world for its grievances.
Surely it would be cheaper, and make a happier world if all would communicate. It would also help if the Islamics would not try to drive Jews into the sea to their deaths.
Most Islamics are not terrorists. They live peaceful and productive lives, and are fine people. But, many can (and do) interpret the Quran (and other holy writings, and the holy messages of their leaders) as violence. It is easy to do, and many (even in this forum) have pointed out the seemingly violent passages.
Everyone should try to respect each other's religions. But we cannot abide by a religion that asserts violence. We can't let one religion kill all those who don't believe as they do. We can't let one religion toss a virgin into a volcano (Islam doesn't) in order to gain entrance into heaven (that's greed....sacrificing another for one's own gain). So, there are limits to religious freedom. When the rights of one religion interfere with the rights of another religion, we have to draw a line and prohibit them.
I suspect that some Islamics step over that line, and harm others. This has to stop.
Imagine how productive the Middle East would have been if there had not been so much violence over the years. Look at the billions of dollars wasted, and the buildings that were destroyed, and the lives that were lost (Jewish lives, Islamic lives, and even Christian lives caught in the crossfire, or sent in as soldiers from neighboring countries).
Surely no one could imagine that God wants violence, waste, and destruction. God tells Christians not to kill...don't make wars.
President George W. Bush fought the wrong enemy. Iraq and the Taliban of Afghanistan were not terrorists and had nothing to do with the 911 attack. In fact, the Taliban had captured bin Laden and his men just 9 days after the 911 attack and offered to turn him over to the United States (the Taliban, at that time, were US allies). W. Bush attacked his own allies, and ultimately killed a million innocent people including women and children, and made torture camps around the world. The International Red Cross reported a torture camp in Iraq, then shortly thereafter, US troops "accidentally" bombed the IRC, killing all of them in that group....silenced them. W. Bush lied the US into war, and he had the only military (and covert agency) intel. US citizens had to believe what he told them. Former news reporter, Dan Rather, in tears over the death of his friends in the World Trade Center, said that we have to go to war now before we lose our resolve. This is how lynch mob justice is done. It is done in haste, before one thinks it through. Innocent people are killed.
You talk of truth, but lies are all around us. It is difficult to know who to trust. I think that, through discussion, we can find common interest and common agreement.
You might want to try being kinder to yourself then.
If someone suspects that another person is evil, without proof, and kills them though they are innocent, I'd say that there actions are evil. Hasty justice isn't justice at all. Texas justice is to kill suspects, then figure out if they were supposed to be killed (but at least it's fast).
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
And you believe they deserve an infinite amount of pain and suffering for all eternity.
How can you consider yourself good when you wish infinite suffering on those who disagree with you?