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This is why Black Lives SHOULD Matter

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
The inequities of social justice has always been apparent in the black community, but nothing is more painful than to watch a mother relive her sons death. Regardless whether you agree or disagree with police reform you have to at least be empathetic to this mother who almost lost her entire family. In my community this is why we believe justice is nothing more than "Just-Us." The video is over 16 minutes long so I encourage you to view the whole thing but if not, go from the beginning to 6:08.

 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I might watch it. However, I agree with police reform, and the subject almost brings me to tears before watching the video as it is. So I'll have to see if I can watch the video. I recall when I joined RF, I took some wrong turns on some issues in threads. I wasn't quite skilled or knowledgeable enough at the time to tell who was who, and who was right in a debate. Plus there were some mischievous personalities kind of steering things a wrong way. Especially for newcomers. I do find things better in these discussions now. But anyway, I support police reform, and I'd also like to see a bit more done for the African-American community in other ways too, so that we have more Social Equity.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I might watch it. However, I agree with police reform, and the subject almost brings me to tears before watching the video as it is. So I'll have to see if I can watch the video. I recall when I joined RF, I took some wrong turns on some issues in threads. I wasn't quite skilled or knowledgeable enough at the time to tell who was who, and who was right in a debate. Plus there were some mischievous personalities kind of steering things a wrong way. Especially for newcomers. I do find things better in these discussions now. But anyway, I support police reform, and I'd also like to see a bit more done for the African-American community in other ways too, so that we have more Social Equity.

Respect for being honest. I wont lie I cried thinking about my mom and what if that was me. This woman reacted how my mom would. This case was BS because prosecutors gave the cop a three year deal for a plea. The mother didn't even know.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
This case was BS because prosecutors gave the cop a three year deal for a plea. The mother didn't even know.
This is why I fear a focus and emphasis on police reform will fall painfully short. Even if we get an independent review panel to police the police, there is still an ocean of problems in the courts that can be antagonistic towards meaningful police reform.
The entire justice system needs overhauled and reformed from the bottom-top and top-bottom.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I've seen lots of stories and videos about blacks who have been guilty of driving while black, shopping while black, being outside the home they own while black up to and including breathing while black.

I know that until black lives matter as much as white lives matter and see that realized by people being treated equally this country will not live up to her ideals.

And of course that applies to every group.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
This is why I fear a focus and emphasis on police reform will fall painfully short. Even if we get an independent review panel to police the police, there is still an ocean of problems in the courts that can be antagonistic towards meaningful police reform.
The entire justice system needs overhauled and reformed from the bottom-top and top-bottom.

Oh I agree. The entire judicial system is interconnected. District Attorneys in bed with the mayor, the mayor in bed with the governor, chief of police in bed with all of them. One hand washes the other. I highly doubt we will see true American justice so long as men of power with no moral compass retain their power. It's really going to take a true progressive system to completely overhaul the judicial system. Even at the Supreme Court level because Trump has set up conservative judges that will be on the bench for a long time which is why I fear places like Planned Parenthood are in trouble which may lead to a delay of progrssivism in our legal ecosystem. I'm not a law student so I cannot even articulate any policy or remedy to even address these disparities.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I've seen lots of stories and videos about blacks who have been guilty of driving while black, shopping while black, being outside the home they own while black up to and including breathing while black.

I know that until black lives matter as much as white lives matter and see that realized by people being treated equally this country will not live up to her ideals.

And of course that applies to every group.

I'm not sure if you remembered when I shared the story of walking home and being stopped by the police in my hospital scrubs, had my work badge placed on the hood of the cop car and sat in the back and had my name ran. His reason? Doing an investigation of a break in and I matched the description. Like yeah, so the burglar broke in a house wearing hospital scrubs? What I was going to say @KAT-KAT, is that the concept of Black Lives Matter which is directly in relation to Critical Race Theory is that we must alleviate our society of systems that disproportionately affects people of color as well as other minority (e.g. LGBTAQ+) communities. In many of my circles this is what is upsetting to some of us in the black community because we can't even get a damn bill that specifically address crimes against the black community. Asians get a bill while the media articulates the anti-Asian hate as something attributed to black which is far from it (See:Viral images show people of color as anti-Asian perpetrators. That misses the big picture.). Anti-Semitism is overtly emphasized and demonized as absolute hate, yet anything remotely related to the black community is hardly taken serious.

Usually what I read and hear when it comes to police encounters of black Americans is that "he should have complied." Or "maybe if he wasn't selling loose cigarettes he would be alive." I find the lack of empathy and degradation of one's humanity is at the epicenter of American society. Which is why I made the comment in the other thread celebrating July 4th. I personally don't feel American nor a complete human being so long as I am still observing and even experiencing social inequities in American society. Far too many 'true Americans" like to tell us to stop hyphenating our demographic (e.g. African-American) but I always say how can stop hyphenating who I am if society is always reminding my community we are Black/African before we are American?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The inequities of social justice has always been apparent in the black community, but nothing is more painful than to watch a mother relive her sons death. Regardless whether you agree or disagree with police reform you have to at least be empathetic to this mother who almost lost her entire family. In my community this is why we believe justice is nothing more than "Just-Us." The video is over 16 minutes long so I encourage you to view the whole thing but if not, go from the beginning to 6:08.


I get a very strong impression that there's a toxic culture which pervades law enforcement and the legal system. Racism, corruption, greed, hypocrisy - it's all there.

I recall a case several years ago here, an incident which happened south of Tucson. The Border Patrol pulled over someone for "suspicious driving." (You gotta love some of these squirrelly, vague justifications for pulling people over.) The guy had a bag of weed in the trunk of his car, so he tried to run off, but the Border Patrol shot him in the back.

Since it happened within the jurisdiction of Pima County, the Sheriff's Department was obliged to investigate, but the investigator's report revealed some interesting responses by the Border Patrol agents at the scene. They were indignant at having to answer questions about the shooting. They reportedly said "We're all cops here! Why should we have to answer questions?" They apparently didn't even know why there needed to be an investigation after a shooting.

They seem to behave more like some kind of private "mafia" with their own version of "omerta."

My view is that we need to tear down the entire system and rebuild it from scratch. That's something a lot of people want to avoid, but I don't think we're going to have much of a choice in the years to come. A big problem we're facing these days is the blatant hypocrisy and corruption within the system, along with a good percentage of the population which wants to have its cake and eat it too. Many people not only want to keep their freedom, security, safety, and wealth, but they also want to be well thought of as decent, noble human beings. Reminds me of the end of Catch 22 where they say "we want you to like us."

Something will eventually have to give. No matter how many safety nets there might be, a system can tolerate only so much BS before collapse is imminent. It's almost like that collapsed condo building in Florida is a bellwether of the shape of things to come.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I get a very strong impression that there's a toxic culture which pervades law enforcement and the legal system. Racism, corruption, greed, hypocrisy - it's all there.

Police misconduct has been going on since slave patrols (See:Slave Patrols: An Early Form of American Policing)

guy had a bag of weed in the trunk of his car, so he tried to run off, but the Border Patrol shot him in the back.

Is marijuana still illegal there?

They seem to behave more like some kind of private "mafia" with their own version of "omerta."

I agree. Hence the "blue wall." If you saw training day stuff like that really does happen.

My view is that we need to tear down the entire system and rebuild it from scratch. That's something a lot of people want to avoid, but I don't think we're going to have much of a choice in the years to come. A big problem we're facing these days is the blatant hypocrisy and corruption within the system, along with a good percentage of the population which wants to have its cake and eat it too. Many people not only want to keep their freedom, security, safety, and wealth, but they also want to be well thought of as decent, noble human beings. Reminds me of the end of Catch 22 where they say "we want you to like us."

Something will eventually have to give. No matter how many safety nets there might be, a system can tolerate only so much BS before collapse is imminent. It's almost like that collapsed condo building in Florida is a bellwether of the shape of things to come.

Very well put but don't hold your breath cause I doubt such things will happen in our lifetime.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Police misconduct has been going on since slave patrols (See:Slave Patrols: An Early Form of American Policing)

True.

Is marijuana still illegal there?

No, it was legalized just recently due to the voters approving it. But when the incident took place, it was still illegal. The Border Patrol would have been operating under federal authority, and they frequently patrol the I-19 corridor between Nogales and Tucson. I've been reading that the feds are laying off on marijuana these days, but there are other drugs they still go after.

The whole "war on drugs" has been a quite a sham from the very beginning anyway. I believe addiction is a serious problem which must be dealt with, but as a medical issue, not a criminal issue. The war on drugs is what persuaded the public to give near blind support to the police, giving them a free hand and more funding for the militarization of police forces across the country.

I agree. Hence the "blue wall." If you saw training day stuff like that really does happen.

When I was a teen, I worked at a hotel, and the night security guard whose day job was working for the sheriff's department at the county jail, and his father was a top sergeant with TPD, although he was retired when I met him.

I had some interesting talks with them, and they told me some stories of their encounters here and there. The one point they drove home is that, the main reason they ever have to come down hard on someone is if they feel there is open defiance or disrespect for the police or the law. As long you're submissive, deferent, and respectful of their authority, then they'll go easy on you. In their eyes, that's for the good of the police department and to do otherwise would be to invite anarchy (although I can't say I agree with that projection). So, they feel compelled, as if it's their duty.

They often talk about "training," as if that's some kind of panacea, but usually they're referring to the rules of engagement and when/how they can use deadly force. But I don't think they're really addressing the root philosophy behind it all, the idea that the police and the law must be respected no matter what. Their philosophy seems vaguely reminiscent of Thomas Jefferson's famous "wolf by the ears" analogy.

Very well put but don't hold your breath cause I doubt such things will happen in our lifetime.

We may not even get the chance, with so many other potential hazards looming before us. The whole world is getting tense these days. I'm not terribly worried about America going down the drain, although I still think humanity can grow and move towards a higher enlightenment. But as you say, it probably won't happen in our lifetime.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Don't get me wrong; yes I agree that there are problems in certain areas, but not all areas of the country that exhibit anomisity or prejudice against blakcs.
However, what I do not see is the outcry against what, for example, went on in Chicago over the 4th of July holiday period, or the problems in New York City and lthe majority of large cities in the country.
In the words of VP Harris....what is the root cause.
The idea that it is a "gun" problem is nothing more than a defelection; guns don't walk around and shoot people...people shoot people. Yes, there is an issue of guns in the wrong hands; but you have to look beyond the easy explaination.
Chicago’s most violent weekend of 2021: 104 shot, 19 of them killed. 13 kids among the wounded
NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for May 2021
US crime rise not letting up in major cities - CNN
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It would be a darn shame if police treatment of blacks
rose only to the level of their treatment of whites.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
However, what I do not see is the outcry against what, for example, went on in Chicago over the 4th of July holiday period, or the problems in New York City and lthe majority of large cities in the country.
First step is looking.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Oh I agree. The entire judicial system is interconnected. District Attorneys in bed with the mayor, the mayor in bed with the governor, chief of police in bed with all of them. One hand washes the other. I highly doubt we will see true American justice so long as men of power with no moral compass retain their power. It's really going to take a true progressive system to completely overhaul the judicial system. Even at the Supreme Court level because Trump has set up conservative judges that will be on the bench for a long time which is why I fear places like Planned Parenthood are in trouble which may lead to a delay of progrssivism in our legal ecosystem. I'm not a law student so I cannot even articulate any policy or remedy to even address these disparities.
I don't disagree. Apparently now it's ok for cops to run people's license plates for pay from civilians who need to learn to mind their own damn business and not take such despicable invasions of privacy.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Don't get me wrong; yes I agree that there are problems in certain areas, but not all areas of the country that exhibit anomisity or prejudice against blakcs.
However, what I do not see is the outcry against what, for example, went on in Chicago over the 4th of July holiday period, or the problems in New York City and lthe majority of large cities in the country.
In the words of VP Harris....what is the root cause.
The idea that it is a "gun" problem is nothing more than a defelection; guns don't walk around and shoot people...people shoot people. Yes, there is an issue of guns in the wrong hands; but you have to look beyond the easy explaination.
Chicago’s most violent weekend of 2021: 104 shot, 19 of them killed. 13 kids among the wounded
NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for May 2021
US crime rise not letting up in major cities - CNN
That has nothing to do with the problems the OP brings up and is itself shameless deflection as you try to take attention away from the cops.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
do you mean all police or only a handful?
I mean just about all of them, those who are both actively abusing the badge and playing judge, jury, and executioner and those who are passively silent and with their silence enabling and protecting the ones who believe their job is to punish people who don't give them complete and total submission and respect.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
I mean just about all of them, those who are both actively abusing the badge and playing judge, jury, and executioner and those who are passively silent and with their silence enabling and protecting the ones who believe their job is to punish people who don't give them complete and total submission and respect.
Well, young lady you are sadly mistaken. Before painting all with a brush maybe you should investage all of the small to middle size towns, not just your big cities.
 
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