Another thread, another time perhaps. Don't want to derail the thread too much.What are some others?
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Another thread, another time perhaps. Don't want to derail the thread too much.What are some others?
Yup. That's why I don't go. I find them to be theological social clubs who care way more about patting themselves on the back instead of doing anything useful.I agree that many young people are leaving "Christian" "churches", not because they don't believe in God, or the Bible, but because they feel that there is a lot of hypocrisy, and lack of genuine love.
I would much rather see people only come together when large numbers are warranted for a particular task and any other time just doing what needs to be done.I am always impressed with the number of young people who attend the meetings at Kingdom Halls (KH) of JWs, and are also so eager to participate.
So, by deconverting the building, people actually get the shelter they need. There's a moral in that somewhere.I can think of one church that is now a family residence, and two large churches that have been converted into luxury apartment flats.
I understand that people aren't their organization, so I typically give people a pass socially unless they prove themselves to be shills for their organization.Fair enough. I've always acknowledged other people's faiths, beliefs, opinions etc because we all have individual 'minds', but what pees me off heartily is when one Christian points at another Christian Church and trashes it to bits, back-bites, slanders, defames and crushes it in red hot nastiness. Which of course places that particular Christian/Church just about where it belongs, in the bin, as far as I'm concerned.
A retired neighbour and I decided to seek out all the 'tea and chat' venues in our area in the hopes of finding a pleasant hour or two to spend during weekday mornings with new company. It's just more acceptable than drinking cheap cider on street corners, is all, although we could try that at some later time, maybe.
The over 60's club was cold and everybody stayed wrapped up in coats, there being no chance of heating such a huge hall. The Methodist church was friendly, warm and hospitable and I got a free piece of cake with my mug of tea. The Riverside Church was delightful and for a few coins we got pots of tea, a plate of biscuits and nice folks around us. This was looking really good!
And then yesterday we visited a Christian community which invites total sinners like us to a 'light refreshment and chat' venue. The lady who runs the place and her area supervisor were both lovely people, but there was a senior lady 'priest' from HQ present who might benefit from a few courses on diplomacy and conflict management. For that reason I will not name this church. One person shouldn't smash a group's reputation......
We were ushered in to a warm hall where a table was set! No mug of tea and biscuit there.... we were sat down and invited to choose from three soups, and rolls were handed round! My friend was totally off balance at such an unexpected level of formality. There was not much chatter amongst the ten or twelve guests and so (in order to discover more venues) I asked the lady opposite me if she visited any other church meetings. She did..... an evangelical chapel over there, and a Baptist church down the road and etc etc. And that's when I asked her if she ever visited the little Christian Spiritualist chapel which is not far from the Baptist Church. OMG! The senior HQ lady had overheard my question.
In a most unfortunate Germanic kind of accent she spoke loudly for all to hear with pointed finger stabbing the air, 'They are Not Christians!....... Those people are Not Christians!' The whole table came to a silent sit-still. My friend looked at me with that 'You p--t!' kind of expression that I know so well.
I tried to back peddle. I mumbled about 'Well, sure, there are so many different churches, and some churches do say that other Churches are not Christians.......'.
'No! They are not even a Church! Those people are Satanists!' she was shaking very slightly. 'Tell me!' she ordered, 'Do you celebrate Halloween? Do you dress up as Satan?!!!' Gentle members......... this is not at a deep south bible-bashing chapel, this is in a frigging English seaside town at table with a bunch of sweet old dears (I'm 70 now so that's me, OK?)
The senior lady pulled their Creed from a bag and thrust it under my nose...... I noticed the very last line which pointed out that Christians (well, their kind of Christians) would have happiness and joy forever......... while the wicked would suffer dreadful punishment for Eternity.
We talked for a little longer, maybe a few seconds, and then I noticed the time. Yes, it was time to go..... ..... My friend was clearly preparing for a full emergency evacuation (probably cursing my name), but the senior lady pointed out in that Germanic accent that 'Surely we would stay for the talk, No? You must stay for the talk!'.
...And at that point I chucked a fiver on the table and switched on 'polite but positive assertion' and removed self and friend to safety, a long way down the road. I think my friend has decided never to come to any more coffee-and-meet mornings with me ever again. Especially Christian ones!
And so.......... the debate...... Christian Churches here are dying fast, and a huge % of most congregations are elderly because the young are not believing in Christianity that pretends to be full of love whilst enjoying the idea of outsiders being tormented in endless horror. And young ones don't get the concept of 'Smiling faces which conceal scowling nasty mindsets'.
Which of you Christians point out other congregations whilst declaring 'They are not Christians!'... ?? In any event, I could happily stand back and let churches like that one destroy each other in their hot contention.
Doctrinal differences and denominationalism have existed since the Reformation.A retired neighbour and I decided to seek out all the 'tea and chat' venues in our area in the hopes of finding a pleasant hour or two to spend during weekday mornings with new company. It's just more acceptable than drinking cheap cider on street corners, is all, although we could try that at some later time, maybe.
The over 60's club was cold and everybody stayed wrapped up in coats, there being no chance of heating such a huge hall. The Methodist church was friendly, warm and hospitable and I got a free piece of cake with my mug of tea. The Riverside Church was delightful and for a few coins we got pots of tea, a plate of biscuits and nice folks around us. This was looking really good!
And then yesterday we visited a Christian community which invites total sinners like us to a 'light refreshment and chat' venue. The lady who runs the place and her area supervisor were both lovely people, but there was a senior lady 'priest' from HQ present who might benefit from a few courses on diplomacy and conflict management. For that reason I will not name this church. One person shouldn't smash a group's reputation......
We were ushered in to a warm hall where a table was set! No mug of tea and biscuit there.... we were sat down and invited to choose from three soups, and rolls were handed round! My friend was totally off balance at such an unexpected level of formality. There was not much chatter amongst the ten or twelve guests and so (in order to discover more venues) I asked the lady opposite me if she visited any other church meetings. She did..... an evangelical chapel over there, and a Baptist church down the road and etc etc. And that's when I asked her if she ever visited the little Christian Spiritualist chapel which is not far from the Baptist Church. OMG! The senior HQ lady had overheard my question.
In a most unfortunate Germanic kind of accent she spoke loudly for all to hear with pointed finger stabbing the air, 'They are Not Christians!....... Those people are Not Christians!' The whole table came to a silent sit-still. My friend looked at me with that 'You p--t!' kind of expression that I know so well.
I tried to back peddle. I mumbled about 'Well, sure, there are so many different churches, and some churches do say that other Churches are not Christians.......'.
'No! They are not even a Church! Those people are Satanists!' she was shaking very slightly. 'Tell me!' she ordered, 'Do you celebrate Halloween? Do you dress up as Satan?!!!' Gentle members......... this is not at a deep south bible-bashing chapel, this is in a frigging English seaside town at table with a bunch of sweet old dears (I'm 70 now so that's me, OK?)
The senior lady pulled their Creed from a bag and thrust it under my nose...... I noticed the very last line which pointed out that Christians (well, their kind of Christians) would have happiness and joy forever......... while the wicked would suffer dreadful punishment for Eternity.
We talked for a little longer, maybe a few seconds, and then I noticed the time. Yes, it was time to go..... ..... My friend was clearly preparing for a full emergency evacuation (probably cursing my name), but the senior lady pointed out in that Germanic accent that 'Surely we would stay for the talk, No? You must stay for the talk!'.
...And at that point I chucked a fiver on the table and switched on 'polite but positive assertion' and removed self and friend to safety, a long way down the road. I think my friend has decided never to come to any more coffee-and-meet mornings with me ever again. Especially Christian ones!
And so.......... the debate...... Christian Churches here are dying fast, and a huge % of most congregations are elderly because the young are not believing in Christianity that pretends to be full of love whilst enjoying the idea of outsiders being tormented in endless horror. And young ones don't get the concept of 'Smiling faces which conceal scowling nasty mindsets'.
Which of you Christians point out other congregations whilst declaring 'They are not Christians!'... ?? In any event, I could happily stand back and let churches like that one destroy each other in their hot contention.
Now just you go back and copy-paste any words from me in that OP that read 'narrow minded bigots', will you please?There's a couple of things going on, and you perceiving it as narrow-minded bigots is an oversimplification.
The Spiritualist Church has the tiniest congregation, I learned yesterday. So that is rubbish.First, the Spiritualist church is stealing members from in all likelihood.
Jesus was a Spiritualist, wasn't he?Second, she actually is correct that Spiritualists are not strictly speakibg Christians. If I remember correctly, Spiritualists are kinda a New Age fringe movement.
What is Christian Spiritualism? - abingdonspiritualistchurch
I know that they have healers. I visited a Christian Spiritualist Chapel in the next town last year..... amazing. Jesus was a Healer, did you know?Yeah they're very into sorta seance crap. It's not a church.
Yes. You got that about right.Although she is probably getting very bent out of shape here, I don't really understand passionate ppl. To her it's vitally important that ppl's souls are not led astray. To me, I don't mind most of what ppl do.
Lastly, she is totally off-base about Halloween.
Christians, This Is Our Night
Halloween is an eve celebration of All Saints. It has been corrupted some by costume pageantry, but the idea of welcoming travelers and victory over fear in trust in Christ as a message is unchanged. In fact, those calling Halloween satanic are doing more to corrupt the lesson of Halloween.
You've no idea what she intended...... she stopped a whole table dead still. She showed very bad manners.Those aren't Christians. Could she be a little less unhinged about it? Yes. But she felt she was trying to warn you, just as I'd warn you against ppl trying to tell you "Muslims and Christians are basically the same" being a complete liar.
We have no idea about her motives. We only know about what she said and did.Was she a horrific bigot? No, she's just old-school.
When you are sitting at somebody else's table, you do it your way. I could have given her a very bad time over what she said, but I chose to be a wishy-washy guest at her table, and not contentious in any way.Also, you didn't do a good job backpedaling. That's about the most wishy-washy statement I've ever heard.
Each Church and group has its own Creed, and Canon.Some churches really aren't churches. Some are cults, some are feel-good organizations, and some teach things that are not gospel canon.
Doctrinal differences and denominationalism have existed since the Reformation.
Since the Reformation established the right of an individual or group of individuals to interpret scripture for themselves. A good thing.
Denominations major in minors, in my view, the doctrines of Christianity are very clearly presented in the New Testament.
Nevertheless, some choose to see things differently, which is their right.
However, one can give an opinion on doctrine or practice, one should NEVER judge an individuals standing as a Christian. Judge actions, never am individuals relationship to God, only God and they can know
I finding it somewhat amusing that the lady you spoke about was so agitated about Halloween. The original purpose of the day was to laugh at the forces of evil, because of.their sure defeat by Christ.
It wasn't to emulate the devil or ghosts or demons, it was to prove them powerless
Some people say that they receive and hear from the deceased.I can't speak for the church you went to or the woman who spoke up that way. But the Bible forbids talking to the dead for a very good reason.
I believe the Christian faith makes perfect sense. I believe I would have to question your reasoning ability if you had the facts but chances are you don't have them.
Its hard to trust the next generation, but that's all I can do. If they want to know something, I'm going to tell them. I'm not going to require them to become sane, mature initiates or to prove their good intentions. Today's youth will be deluged with information from this day forward. They need a root to graft things onto. I think they need anchors or islands to find what the hell is going on. This is why I plainly state things like 'The LORD is a covenant'. 'Atonement means you forgive everyone.' 'Sacrifices are treaties.' 'Communion is a treaty.' That person at your table who insults you and your guests shows that ignorance is simply not compatible with this age. They are filled with superstition, and so they are dangerous. The way things are done has to change with the times. Secrets have been important and have worked to keep politicians from controlling the church. This has failed. I have wondered what to do. Secrets have been a weapon against those who have wanted to control churches. I get that, but the thing is that Bible was translated and released to the uneducated. We are still, today, suffering because of it. The well is on fire. Blow it.I feel sure that there is a wide gap for the provision of 'New Christianity' if it's based upon love and understanding.
But see here, the first line of that mentioned outfit's Creed ....
We believe that the scriptures of the Old Testament and the New Testament were given by inspiration of God, and that they only constitute the Divine rule of Christian faith and practice.
Now I wonder what that senior's opinions would have been about modern Equality Legislation. I wonder what her views might have been about Old Testament Laws which might have been clutched to whilst others dumped? A food table was not the place to really seek to interview such a person on the extremes that her behaviour clearly showed to be present. The kind of Christianity that wants to speak of understanding one moment, and shouts out OT law the next is socially a dangerous schizophrenic imo.
Wow, Bricks....... you mentioned that the bible was translated and released to the uneducated........... and, secrets have been a weapon against 'would-be controllers'...... etc.Its hard to trust the next generation, but that's all I can do. If they want to know something, I'm going to tell them. I'm not going to require them to become sane, mature initiates or to prove their good intentions. Today's youth will be deluged with information from this day forward. They need a root to graft things onto. I think they need anchors or islands to find what the hell is going on. This is why I plainly state things like 'The LORD is a covenant'. 'Atonement means you forgive everyone.' 'Sacrifices are treaties.' 'Communion is a treaty.' That person at your table who insults you and your guests shows that ignorance is simply not compatible with this age. They are filled with superstition, and so they are dangerous. The way things are done has to change with the times. Secrets have been important and have worked to keep politicians from controlling the church. This has failed. I have wondered what to do. Secrets have been a weapon against those who have wanted to control churches. I get that, but the thing is that Bible was translated and released to the uneducated. We are still, today, suffering because of it. The well is on fire. Blow it.
One main point is that this is the very beginning of the digital age. Its one thing for people in the future to have documents, but they need us. We are the thing that gives them a sense of reality by being honest about what we think - warts and all. We are the generation which is seeing the creation of the internet, of computers. We know the stories by our parents and grandparents and great grandparents. We know, firsthand, that people used to ride horseback. We know, firsthand, what it means to use a pay phone. These are not abstract for us. We know life without video games. If we hide things from future generations that causes serious problems.Wow, Bricks....... you mentioned that the bible was translated and released to the uneducated........... and, secrets have been a weapon against 'would-be controllers'...... etc.
I think that rather than keep the bible from uneducated it might be better to release it and educate more........ maybe?
I think that secrets are indicative of exclusive clubs........ and so 'not good'... ?
How would you 'Blow the flaming well'??
I cannot fully grasp what you're saying here.... that's not true.... I cannot grasp it at all.
...releasing it like a bomb did get people thinking, and did weaken the clergy. It remains a superstition engine. It was never truly released. Instead it was used as a weapon.I think that rather than keep the bible from uneducated it might be better to release it and educate more........ maybe?
Hey, Oldbadger, did you say you play chess? Did I understand you correctly? I love to play, but there are very few around my area who do.I challenge my chess spp each day, once, and get slaughtered embarrassingly, once.
I play microsoft Hearts.
Oh, some priests can be totally careless about folk's feelings at such delicate time as funerals, imo.
A long time ago a retired Bahai couple lost their son to lightening-speed-MS he leaving a Christian wife and baby behind, a very sad occasion. The Bahai parents asked the Christian wife if a Bahai prayer could be read at the service which a Christian priest would take. The young wife agreed to ask, but the priest refused, because he thought that such a prayer would be 'inappropriate'.
Such priests don't deserve a congregation today, and around here I don't think they get one, only the most friendly and Universal priests deserve to get followings, imo.
Thankyou for enlarging upon your earlier points.One main point is that this is the very beginning of the digital age. Its one thing for people in the future to have documents, but they need us. We are the thing that gives them a sense of reality by being honest about what we think - warts and all. We are the generation which is seeing the creation of the internet, of computers.
The survivors will be OK........ most of what lived amongst was not very important, or so I think.We know the stories by our parents and grandparents and great grandparents. We know, firsthand, that people used to ride horseback. We know, firsthand, what it means to use a pay phone. These are not abstract for us. We know life without video games. If we hide things from future generations that causes serious problems.
The children of the future will decide what is important or not about human history. And they won't be told what to believe by us...... threy will make up their own minds.Another point is that superstition should not be upheld. Superstition creates itself. It doesn't need our help.
Thank goodness that it did weaken the clergy! In the 80's I used to survey rich homes for security appraisals. One client was the CofE Diocesan Board. Oh my! You should have seen the residences of the clergy! I remember one beautiful room panelled floor to ceiling in a fruit wood, and the gun case must have held four pairs of game guns, any one pair worth a whole home today..... and all that wealth gathered together through manipulation, control, secrets and lies.late edit:
...releasing it like a bomb did get people thinking, and did weaken the clergy. It remains a superstition engine. It was never truly released. Instead it was used as a weapon.
What's the reason?I can't speak for the church you went to or the woman who spoke up that way. But the Bible forbids talking to the dead for a very good reason.
Hello again....Hey, Oldbadger, did you say you play chess? Did I understand you correctly? I love to play, but there are very few around my area who do.
What's the reason?
Thank goodness that it did weaken the clergy! In the 80's I used to survey rich homes for security appraisals. One client was the CofE Diocesan Board. Oh my! You should have seen the residences of the clergy! I remember one beautiful room panelled floor to ceiling in a fruit wood, and the gun case must have held four pairs of game guns, any one pair worth a whole home today..... and all that wealth gathered together through manipulation, control, secrets and lies.
Yeah....Deuteronomy 18:10-12.You were asking another member, but I can guess that both you and I are thinking of the Old Testament Laws about seers, etc.......
But I can't remember if the Israelites were actually told why they had to keep clear of seers and clairvoyants. Of course, even Kings broke that rule!
And so.......... the debate...... Christian Churches here are dying fast, and a huge % of most congregations are elderly because the young are not believing in Christianity that pretends to be full of love whilst enjoying the idea of outsiders being tormented in endless horror. And young ones don't get the concept of 'Smiling faces which conceal scowling nasty mindsets'.
Which of you Christians point out other congregations whilst declaring 'They are not Christians!'... ?? In any event, I could happily stand back and let churches like that one destroy each other in their hot contention.
Yeah....Deuteronomy 18:10-12.