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They Are Not Christians!

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
A retired neighbour and I decided to seek out all the 'tea and chat' venues in our area in the hopes of finding a pleasant hour or two to spend during weekday mornings with new company. It's just more acceptable than drinking cheap cider on street corners, is all, although we could try that at some later time, maybe.

The over 60's club was cold and everybody stayed wrapped up in coats, there being no chance of heating such a huge hall. The Methodist church was friendly, warm and hospitable and I got a free piece of cake with my mug of tea. The Riverside Church was delightful and for a few coins we got pots of tea, a plate of biscuits and nice folks around us. This was looking really good!

And then yesterday we visited a Christian community which invites total sinners like us to a 'light refreshment and chat' venue. The lady who runs the place and her area supervisor were both lovely people, but there was a senior lady 'priest' from HQ present who might benefit from a few courses on diplomacy and conflict management. For that reason I will not name this church. One person shouldn't smash a group's reputation......

We were ushered in to a warm hall where a table was set! No mug of tea and biscuit there.... we were sat down and invited to choose from three soups, and rolls were handed round! My friend was totally off balance at such an unexpected level of formality. There was not much chatter amongst the ten or twelve guests and so (in order to discover more venues) I asked the lady opposite me if she visited any other church meetings. She did..... an evangelical chapel over there, and a Baptist church down the road and etc etc. And that's when I asked her if she ever visited the little Christian Spiritualist chapel which is not far from the Baptist Church. OMG! The senior HQ lady had overheard my question.

In a most unfortunate Germanic kind of accent she spoke loudly for all to hear with pointed finger stabbing the air, 'They are Not Christians!....... Those people are Not Christians!' The whole table came to a silent sit-still. My friend looked at me with that 'You p--t!' kind of expression that I know so well.

I tried to back peddle. I mumbled about 'Well, sure, there are so many different churches, and some churches do say that other Churches are not Christians.......'.

'No! They are not even a Church! Those people are Satanists!' she was shaking very slightly. 'Tell me!' she ordered, 'Do you celebrate Halloween? Do you dress up as Satan?!!!' Gentle members......... this is not at a deep south bible-bashing chapel, this is in a frigging English seaside town at table with a bunch of sweet old dears (I'm 70 now so that's me, OK?)

The senior lady pulled their Creed from a bag and thrust it under my nose...... I noticed the very last line which pointed out that Christians (well, their kind of Christians) would have happiness and joy forever......... while the wicked would suffer dreadful punishment for Eternity.

We talked for a little longer, maybe a few seconds, and then I noticed the time. Yes, it was time to go..... ..... My friend was clearly preparing for a full emergency evacuation (probably cursing my name), but the senior lady pointed out in that Germanic accent that 'Surely we would stay for the talk, No? You must stay for the talk!'.

...And at that point I chucked a fiver on the table and switched on 'polite but positive assertion' and removed self and friend to safety, a long way down the road. I think my friend has decided never to come to any more coffee-and-meet mornings with me ever again. Especially Christian ones!

And so.......... the debate...... Christian Churches here are dying fast, and a huge % of most congregations are elderly because the young are not believing in Christianity that pretends to be full of love whilst enjoying the idea of outsiders being tormented in endless horror. And young ones don't get the concept of 'Smiling faces which conceal scowling nasty mindsets'.

Which of you Christians point out other congregations whilst declaring 'They are not Christians!'... ?? In any event, I could happily stand back and let churches like that one destroy each other in their hot contention.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That is one of many, many reasons why I left the JWs. Many(not all) I met were not likely to call people 'not real Christians' to their face (bad for PR) but they will behind closed doors. 'They don't have The Truth' 'house of babylon' 'deceived by Satan' 'unbelievers' yadda yadda. Part and parcel of an exclusivist world view.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Part and parcel of an exclusivist world view.

I wanted to highlight that sentence. Because to me it gets to the heart of what is gradually dying away but not quietly and not quickly enough in my book. There are endless jokes and sayings about this "my way or the highway" world view and I would also want to avoid such people and organizations as much as I can.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
That is one of many, many reasons why I left the JWs. Many(not all) I met were not likely to call people 'not real Christians' to their face (bad for PR) but they will behind closed doors. 'They don't have The Truth' 'house of babylon' 'deceived by Satan' 'unbelievers' yadda yadda. Part and parcel of an exclusivist world view.

Funny, I came from a church who said JW's weren't Christians. I compared the love I felt in church (no love to speak of) with the love I felt among JW' s and there was no comparison. I stayed for the next 45 years, feeling that I had finally found my spiritual home.....sounds like you didn't. :shrug:

When have I said things behind closed doors without saying what I believe out loud? You say you left JW's but I dont believe you were ever really a part of our brotherhood. Perhaps you danced around the fringes for a while? Did you find your spiritual home after you 'left'?

Ephesians 4:4-5..."One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

There can only be one truth.....one road to life, and I believe I have found it...and I can tell you why. I can also tell you why Jesus gave the parable of the 'wheat and the weeds'. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43) False Christians are growing in the world along with the real ones. It's up to us to locate them. If we can't tell the difference, then what was the point of the parable? o_O

Jesus gave us the criteria and he also did not suffer fools (in the religious sense) gladly. He exposed the hypocrisy of the Pharisees quite publicly on many occasions. (Matthew 23) Should we do less?

The majority of Jews were persuaded to hate Jesus enough to want him dead.....why should his disciples expect less? (John 15:18-21)

Universalism is not taught in scripture. (Matthew 7:13-14) There is no soppy, all-forgiving god. He is a myth created by those who don't think they need to answer for their actions. Like it or not, the God of the Bible requires an accounting, (Hebrews 4:13) and he doesn't care what label you're wearing.

Sadly, those who choose the wrong road don't actually live to regret it....:(
 
Last edited:

nPeace

Veteran Member
A retired neighbour and I decided to seek out all the 'tea and chat' venues in our area in the hopes of finding a pleasant hour or two to spend during weekday mornings with new company. It's just more acceptable than drinking cheap cider on street corners, is all, although we could try that at some later time, maybe.

The over 60's club was cold and everybody stayed wrapped up in coats, there being no chance of heating such a huge hall. The Methodist church was friendly, warm and hospitable and I got a free piece of cake with my mug of tea. The Riverside Church was delightful and for a few coins we got pots of tea, a plate of biscuits and nice folks around us. This was looking really good!

And then yesterday we visited a Christian community which invites total sinners like us to a 'light refreshment and chat' venue. The lady who runs the place and her area supervisor were both lovely people, but there was a senior lady 'priest' from HQ present who might benefit from a few courses on diplomacy and conflict management. For that reason I will not name this church. One person shouldn't smash a group's reputation......

We were ushered in to a warm hall where a table was set! No mug of tea and biscuit there.... we were sat down and invited to choose from three soups, and rolls were handed round! My friend was totally off balance at such an unexpected level of formality. There was not much chatter amongst the ten or twelve guests and so (in order to discover more venues) I asked the lady opposite me if she visited any other church meetings. She did..... an evangelical chapel over there, and a Baptist church down the road and etc etc. And that's when I asked her if she ever visited the little Christian Spiritualist chapel which is not far from the Baptist Church. OMG! The senior HQ lady had overheard my question.

In a most unfortunate Germanic kind of accent she spoke loudly for all to hear with pointed finger stabbing the air, 'They are Not Christians!....... Those people are Not Christians!' The whole table came to a silent sit-still. My friend looked at me with that 'You p--t!' kind of expression that I know so well.

I tried to back peddle. I mumbled about 'Well, sure, there are so many different churches, and some churches do say that other Churches are not Christians.......'.

'No! They are not even a Church! Those people are Satanists!' she was shaking very slightly. 'Tell me!' she ordered, 'Do you celebrate Halloween? Do you dress up as Satan?!!!' Gentle members......... this is not at a deep south bible-bashing chapel, this is in a frigging English seaside town at table with a bunch of sweet old dears (I'm 70 now so that's me, OK?)

The senior lady pulled their Creed from a bag and thrust it under my nose...... I noticed the very last line which pointed out that Christians (well, their kind of Christians) would have happiness and joy forever......... while the wicked would suffer dreadful punishment for Eternity.

We talked for a little longer, maybe a few seconds, and then I noticed the time. Yes, it was time to go..... ..... My friend was clearly preparing for a full emergency evacuation (probably cursing my name), but the senior lady pointed out in that Germanic accent that 'Surely we would stay for the talk, No? You must stay for the talk!'.

...And at that point I chucked a fiver on the table and switched on 'polite but positive assertion' and removed self and friend to safety, a long way down the road. I think my friend has decided never to come to any more coffee-and-meet mornings with me ever again. Especially Christian ones!

And so.......... the debate...... Christian Churches here are dying fast, and a huge % of most congregations are elderly because the young are not believing in Christianity that pretends to be full of love whilst enjoying the idea of outsiders being tormented in endless horror. And young ones don't get the concept of 'Smiling faces which conceal scowling nasty mindsets'.

Which of you Christians point out other congregations whilst declaring 'They are not Christians!'... ?? In any event, I could happily stand back and let churches like that one destroy each other in their hot contention.
I agree that many young people are leaving "Christian" "churches", not because they don't believe in God, or the Bible, but because they feel that there is a lot of hypocrisy, and lack of genuine love.
I find many grownups feel the same way too, but many people take Church attendance seriously, and so, no matter what, they faithfully attend those services, because they believe it is what God requires.

I believe many of these people are happy giving God the minimum - it's better than nothing at all, but I think people know when they are filled, from when they are empty, so those that really are sincere about being filled, search out a place of worship, where they might fill that void.

I am always impressed with the number of young people who attend the meetings at Kingdom Halls (KH) of JWs, and are also so eager to participate. I have had the pleasure of meeting young people who attended meetings they were invited to, and they enjoyed the association and teaching format so much, they kept attending - even doing so on their own.

The KHs of JWs are always well attended, and because they are always growing, there are always being split in other to keep the size of a congregation manageable, so new congregations are regularly being formed.

Because of the trademark door to door ministry, public witnessing, informal witnessing, and other forms of witnessing, people who sincerely seek to fill the spiritual void, don't have to search in vain, but rather they are found.
As Jesus said, Jehovah is the one that draws people to his organization (John 6:44), because he is the one that sees the heart.
He is aware of those who want truth and righteousness. Matthew 5:3, and those who prefer just sweet words. 2 Timothy 4:3, 4

Matthew 7:7, 8
7 “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you; 8 for everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
A retired neighbour and I decided to seek out all the 'tea and chat' venues in our area in the hopes of finding a pleasant hour or two to spend during weekday mornings with new company. It's just more acceptable than drinking cheap cider on street corners, is all, although we could try that at some later time, maybe.

The over 60's club was cold and everybody stayed wrapped up in coats, there being no chance of heating such a huge hall. The Methodist church was friendly, warm and hospitable and I got a free piece of cake with my mug of tea. The Riverside Church was delightful and for a few coins we got pots of tea, a plate of biscuits and nice folks around us. This was looking really good!

And then yesterday we visited a Christian community which invites total sinners like us to a 'light refreshment and chat' venue. The lady who runs the place and her area supervisor were both lovely people, but there was a senior lady 'priest' from HQ present who might benefit from a few courses on diplomacy and conflict management. For that reason I will not name this church. One person shouldn't smash a group's reputation......

We were ushered in to a warm hall where a table was set! No mug of tea and biscuit there.... we were sat down and invited to choose from three soups, and rolls were handed round! My friend was totally off balance at such an unexpected level of formality. There was not much chatter amongst the ten or twelve guests and so (in order to discover more venues) I asked the lady opposite me if she visited any other church meetings. She did..... an evangelical chapel over there, and a Baptist church down the road and etc etc. And that's when I asked her if she ever visited the little Christian Spiritualist chapel which is not far from the Baptist Church. OMG! The senior HQ lady had overheard my question.

In a most unfortunate Germanic kind of accent she spoke loudly for all to hear with pointed finger stabbing the air, 'They are Not Christians!....... Those people are Not Christians!' The whole table came to a silent sit-still. My friend looked at me with that 'You p--t!' kind of expression that I know so well.

I tried to back peddle. I mumbled about 'Well, sure, there are so many different churches, and some churches do say that other Churches are not Christians.......'.

'No! They are not even a Church! Those people are Satanists!' she was shaking very slightly. 'Tell me!' she ordered, 'Do you celebrate Halloween? Do you dress up as Satan?!!!' Gentle members......... this is not at a deep south bible-bashing chapel, this is in a frigging English seaside town at table with a bunch of sweet old dears (I'm 70 now so that's me, OK?)

The senior lady pulled their Creed from a bag and thrust it under my nose...... I noticed the very last line which pointed out that Christians (well, their kind of Christians) would have happiness and joy forever......... while the wicked would suffer dreadful punishment for Eternity.

We talked for a little longer, maybe a few seconds, and then I noticed the time. Yes, it was time to go..... ..... My friend was clearly preparing for a full emergency evacuation (probably cursing my name), but the senior lady pointed out in that Germanic accent that 'Surely we would stay for the talk, No? You must stay for the talk!'.

...And at that point I chucked a fiver on the table and switched on 'polite but positive assertion' and removed self and friend to safety, a long way down the road. I think my friend has decided never to come to any more coffee-and-meet mornings with me ever again. Especially Christian ones!

And so.......... the debate...... Christian Churches here are dying fast, and a huge % of most congregations are elderly because the young are not believing in Christianity that pretends to be full of love whilst enjoying the idea of outsiders being tormented in endless horror. And young ones don't get the concept of 'Smiling faces which conceal scowling nasty mindsets'.

Which of you Christians point out other congregations whilst declaring 'They are not Christians!'... ?? In any event, I could happily stand back and let churches like that one destroy each other in their hot contention.
I am kind of in a rush right now as I was just about to close up the laptop when I saw your post, so I just skimmed your story... I will try to read it more intently tomorrow....

But just off the top of my head, I am in the united States so Churches are not dying out at all. This country might be the last stronghold of Christianity... :)

Anyhow, it has been a week for me... On the other forum that I post on it is mostly fundamentalist Christians and atheists and the atheists are my friends... As a Baha'i, I have been told I am going to hell and now I have been categorized as a demon along with my atheist friends. :rolleyes: My friends said they are all leaving that forum after next week and coming to my forum... they normally go back and forth.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Funny, I came from a church who said JW's weren't Christians. I compared the love I felt in church (no love to speak of) with the love I felt among JW' s and there was no comparison. I stayed for the next 45 years, feeling that I had finally found my spiritual home.....sounds like you didn't. :shrug:

When have I said things behind closed doors without saying what I believe out loud? You say you left JW's but I dont believe you were ever really a part of our brotherhood. Perhaps you danced around the fringes for a while? Did you find your spiritual home after you 'left'?

Ephesians 4:4-5..."One body there is, and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

There can only be one truth.....one road to life, and I believe I have found it...and I can tell you why. I can also tell you why Jesus gave the parable of the 'wheat and the weeds'. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43) False Christians are growing in the world along with the real ones. It's up to us to locate them. If we can't tell the difference, then what was the point of the parable? o_O

Jesus gave us the criteria and he also did not suffer fools (in the religious sense) gladly. He exposed the hypocrisy of the Pharisees quite publicly on many occasions. (Matthew 23) Should we do less?

The majority of Jews were persuaded to hate Jesus enough to want him dead.....why should his disciples expect less? (John 15:18-21)

Universalism is not taught in scripture. (Matthew 7:13-14) There is no soppy, all-forgiving god. He is a myth created by those who don't think they need to answer for their actions. Like it or not, the God of the Bible requires an accounting, (Hebrews 4:13) and he doesn't care what label you're wearing.

Sadly, those who choose the wrong road don't actually live to regret it....:(
Case in point.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Dying fast or changing fast? How many did you visit and what about that 'Spiritualist' church that was being denigrated by the dying church?
Dying, Bricks......dying.

I can think of one church that is now a family residence, and two large churches that have been converted into luxury apartment flats.

So far we have visited seven (we only started last week).

The average Sunday service congregation seems to be about 10-20 persons, mostly all elderly, and the Catholic Church has a bout 50 present. But the JWs fill their Kingdom Hall with two separate meetings each Sunday, that's about 200 persons.

We have not visited the Spiritualist Church yet, but the one that I visited last autumn for healing is struggling to keep going.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I agree that many young people are leaving "Christian" "churches", not because they don't believe in God, or the Bible, but because they feel that there is a lot of hypocrisy, and lack of genuine love.
I find many grownups feel the same way too, but many people take Church attendance seriously, and so, no matter what, they faithfully attend those services, because they believe it is what God requires.

I believe many of these people are happy giving God the minimum - it's better than nothing at all, but I think people know when they are filled, from when they are empty, so those that really are sincere about being filled, search out a place of worship, where they might fill that void.

I am always impressed with the number of young people who attend the meetings at Kingdom Halls (KH) of JWs, and are also so eager to participate. I have had the pleasure of meeting young people who attended meetings they were invited to, and they enjoyed the association and teaching format so much, they kept attending - even doing so on their own.

The KHs of JWs are always well attended, and because they are always growing, there are always being split in other to keep the size of a congregation manageable, so new congregations are regularly being formed.

Because of the trademark door to door ministry, public witnessing, informal witnessing, and other forms of witnessing, people who sincerely seek to fill the spiritual void, don't have to search in vain, but rather they are found.
As Jesus said, Jehovah is the one that draws people to his organization (John 6:44), because he is the one that sees the heart.
He is aware of those who want truth and righteousness. Matthew 5:3, and those who prefer just sweet words. 2 Timothy 4:3, 4

Matthew 7:7, 8
7 “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you; 8 for everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened.

Ah yes, the Kingdom Hall here is large, but now it can only hold half of the JWs in this area and so there are two meetings each Sunday.

No matter what a JW thinks, they would never start shouting out about other religions....... at worst they would continue to discuss in a quiet and controlled manner.

As far as I know, the JWs are the only Christian Faith around here with a strong following of youngsters.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Ah yes, the Kingdom Hall here is large, but now it can only hold half of the JWs in this area and so there are two meetings each Sunday.

No matter what a JW thinks, they would never start shouting out about other religions....... at worst they would continue to discuss in a quiet and controlled manner.

As far as I know, the JWs are the only Christian Faith around here with a strong following of youngsters.
I am not surprised, and I have seen churches close here, too. The attendance is down per church. Even so new ones keep starting up. They are everywhere. Its likely they will keep trying new things.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I am not surprised, and I have seen churches close here, too. The attendance is down per church. Even so new ones keep starting up. They are everywhere. Its likely they will keep trying new things.
I feel sure that there is a wide gap for the provision of 'New Christianity' if it's based upon love and understanding.

But see here, the first line of that mentioned outfit's Creed ....
We believe that the scriptures of the Old Testament and the New Testament were given by inspiration of God, and that they only constitute the Divine rule of Christian faith and practice.

Now I wonder what that senior's opinions would have been about modern Equality Legislation. I wonder what her views might have been about Old Testament Laws which might have been clutched to whilst others dumped? A food table was not the place to really seek to interview such a person on the extremes that her behaviour clearly showed to be present. The kind of Christianity that wants to speak of understanding one moment, and shouts out OT law the next is socially a dangerous schizophrenic imo.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
The kind of Christianity that wants to speak of understanding one moment, and shouts out OT law the next is socially a dangerous schizophrenic imo.

It seems to me that the entire Christian faith really
makes no sense. The list of ways just keeps going.
from the Genesis whopper to the next absurdity
and the next.

Now that people are not socially ostracized,
usually, and are not tortured to death for
deviation, the thing is falling apart of its own
weight.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
It seems to me that the entire Christian faith really
makes no sense. The list of ways just keeps going.
from the Genesis whopper to the next absurdity
and the next.

Now that people are not socially ostracized,
usually, and are not tortured to death for
deviation, the thing is falling apart of its own
weight.

Fair enough. I've always acknowledged other people's faiths, beliefs, opinions etc because we all have individual 'minds', but what pees me off heartily is when one Christian points at another Christian Church and trashes it to bits, back-bites, slanders, defames and crushes it in red hot nastiness. Which of course places that particular Christian/Church just about where it belongs, in the bin, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know how Paul managed to spin a religion which could control people with MORE FEAR than a three day death in ignominy and agony on a stake or cross, but he did it! I mean, Eternal Agony in Hellfire does kick crucifixion in to touch for shear shock and awe factor, all you gotta do is get the people to believe it and you've got 'em.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Fair enough. I've always acknowledged other people's faiths, beliefs, opinions etc because we all have individual 'minds', but what pees me off heartily is when one Christian points at another Christian Church and trashes it to bits, back-bites, slanders, defames and crushes it in red hot nastiness. Which of course places that particular Christian/Church just about where it belongs, in the bin, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know how Paul managed to spin a religion which could control people with MORE FEAR than a three day death in ignominy and agony on a stake or cross, but he did it! I mean, Eternal Agony in Hellfire does kick crucifixion in to touch for shear shock and awe factor, all you gotta do is get the people to believe it and you've got 'em.

It is the champ, for "carrot and stick".

The way that "Paul" came up with his own
version of what "Jesus" had to say is just one
of the many nonsensical things,

It took fear of eternal torture, and sometimes
of the clerics it starting early,, to keep that
shameful electrified corpse of a faith going this long
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe it does not usually arise in normal conversation but if asked specifically I make my beliefs clear. Besides would a person be better off with a false Christianity than with none? Usually Christians think that the devil gives just enough truth to suck a person into His evil ways.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Dying, Bricks......dying.

I can think of one church that is now a family residence, and two large churches that have been converted into luxury apartment flats.

So far we have visited seven (we only started last week).

The average Sunday service congregation seems to be about 10-20 persons, mostly all elderly, and the Catholic Church has a bout 50 present. But the JWs fill their Kingdom Hall with two separate meetings each Sunday, that's about 200 persons.

We have not visited the Spiritualist Church yet, but the one that I visited last autumn for healing is struggling to keep going.

I believe my church is struggling but probably more from the fact that it is a duck out of water. The one across the street has a capacity of 500 seats and had to go to two services. That church is what I would call a Charismatic church and the statistics show that is the type of church that is growing in the USA.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
It seems to me that the entire Christian faith really
makes no sense. The list of ways just keeps going.
from the Genesis whopper to the next absurdity
and the next.

Now that people are not socially ostracized,
usually, and are not tortured to death for
deviation, the thing is falling apart of its own
weight.

I believe the Christian faith makes perfect sense. I believe I would have to question your reasoning ability if you had the facts but chances are you don't have them.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
A retired neighbour and I decided to seek out all the 'tea and chat' venues in our area in the hopes of finding a pleasant hour or two to spend during weekday mornings with new company.

Here in western Canada, every small town has its favorite coffee shop. Retired farmers and others on breaks meet up usually at 10 in the morning, take up a few tables, have a couple of cups each, talk politics, farming, weather, sports (hockey) and other such stuff. (Never religion) The regulars often return around 3 in the afternoon to do the whole thing over again. Even the smallest of towns seem to have one of these. You can tell where it is by looking for a bunch of half-ton trucks outside. I think OB would do well in one, even order a piece of pie, or a muffin. You want me to look for a cheap house somewhere you could rent for a few years?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
A retired neighbour and I decided to seek out all the 'tea and chat' venues in our area in the hopes of finding a pleasant hour or two to spend during weekday mornings with new company. It's just more acceptable than drinking cheap cider on street corners, is all, although we could try that at some later time, maybe.

The over 60's club was cold and everybody stayed wrapped up in coats, there being no chance of heating such a huge hall. The Methodist church was friendly, warm and hospitable and I got a free piece of cake with my mug of tea. The Riverside Church was delightful and for a few coins we got pots of tea, a plate of biscuits and nice folks around us. This was looking really good!

And then yesterday we visited a Christian community which invites total sinners like us to a 'light refreshment and chat' venue. The lady who runs the place and her area supervisor were both lovely people, but there was a senior lady 'priest' from HQ present who might benefit from a few courses on diplomacy and conflict management. For that reason I will not name this church. One person shouldn't smash a group's reputation......

We were ushered in to a warm hall where a table was set! No mug of tea and biscuit there.... we were sat down and invited to choose from three soups, and rolls were handed round! My friend was totally off balance at such an unexpected level of formality. There was not much chatter amongst the ten or twelve guests and so (in order to discover more venues) I asked the lady opposite me if she visited any other church meetings. She did..... an evangelical chapel over there, and a Baptist church down the road and etc etc. And that's when I asked her if she ever visited the little Christian Spiritualist chapel which is not far from the Baptist Church. OMG! The senior HQ lady had overheard my question.

In a most unfortunate Germanic kind of accent she spoke loudly for all to hear with pointed finger stabbing the air, 'They are Not Christians!....... Those people are Not Christians!' The whole table came to a silent sit-still. My friend looked at me with that 'You p--t!' kind of expression that I know so well.

I tried to back peddle. I mumbled about 'Well, sure, there are so many different churches, and some churches do say that other Churches are not Christians.......'.

'No! They are not even a Church! Those people are Satanists!' she was shaking very slightly. 'Tell me!' she ordered, 'Do you celebrate Halloween? Do you dress up as Satan?!!!' Gentle members......... this is not at a deep south bible-bashing chapel, this is in a frigging English seaside town at table with a bunch of sweet old dears (I'm 70 now so that's me, OK?)

The senior lady pulled their Creed from a bag and thrust it under my nose...... I noticed the very last line which pointed out that Christians (well, their kind of Christians) would have happiness and joy forever......... while the wicked would suffer dreadful punishment for Eternity.

We talked for a little longer, maybe a few seconds, and then I noticed the time. Yes, it was time to go..... ..... My friend was clearly preparing for a full emergency evacuation (probably cursing my name), but the senior lady pointed out in that Germanic accent that 'Surely we would stay for the talk, No? You must stay for the talk!'.

...And at that point I chucked a fiver on the table and switched on 'polite but positive assertion' and removed self and friend to safety, a long way down the road. I think my friend has decided never to come to any more coffee-and-meet mornings with me ever again. Especially Christian ones!

And so.......... the debate...... Christian Churches here are dying fast, and a huge % of most congregations are elderly because the young are not believing in Christianity that pretends to be full of love whilst enjoying the idea of outsiders being tormented in endless horror. And young ones don't get the concept of 'Smiling faces which conceal scowling nasty mindsets'.

Which of you Christians point out other congregations whilst declaring 'They are not Christians!'... ?? In any event, I could happily stand back and let churches like that one destroy each other in their hot contention.
I might think, or suspect, that about some sects, but I would never dream of blurting such a thing out at a supposedly ecumenical gathering. How stupid can one get?

We have a priest at our local church who has been given the job of ecumenical outreach by the bishop. (He's a good singer too - I got to know him when he sang Christ and I sang the narrator in the Passion on Good Friday) What is notable about this man is his intellectual curiosity and openness to seeing the positive side in other interpretations, or even other religions. He is also the master of the short and snappy sermon - a really communicator and a natural teacher. It sounds as if your Germanic lady was not really cut out for the role. I wonder what idiot at "HQ" sent her! Was this the C of E?
 
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