Theistic (Biblical) Evolution: How Does This Sucker work?

[Audie]

Ah, but it is.

However, I'm using the anthropological definition of "myth", namely that these are stories meant to convey teachings, regardless as to whether these "stories" are factually accurate.

Like so?

narratives), myths articulate how characters undergo or enact an ordered sequence of events. The term myth has come to refer to a certain genre (or category) of stories that share characteristics that make this genre distinctly different from other genres of oral narratives, such as legends and folktales. Many definitions of myth repeat similar general aspects of the genre and may be summarized thus: Myths are symbolic tales of the distant past (often primordial times) that concern cosmogony and cosmology (the origin and nature of the universe), may be connected to belief systems or rituals, and may serve to direct social action and values.

The classic definition of myth from folklore studies finds clearest delineation in William Bascom’s article “The Forms of Folklore: Prose Narratives” where myths are defined as tales believed as true, usually sacred, set in the distant past or other worlds or parts of the world, and with extra-human, inhuman, or heroic characters. Such myths, often described as “cosmogonic,” or “origin” myths, function to provide order or cosmology, based on “cosmic” from the Greek kosmos meaning order (Leeming 1990, 3, 13; Bascom, 1965). Cosmology’s concern with the order of the universe finds narrative, symbolic expression in myths, which thus often help establish important values or aspects of a culture’s worldview. For many people, myths remain value-laden discourse that explain much about human nature.

 

[Sapiens]

As we have expiate to you, at least several times, it isn't mythology.

Definition of mythology
plural mythologies
: an allegorical narrative
: a body of myths: such as: the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people
b : mythos 2

• cold war mythology

: a branch of knowledge that deals with myth
: a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something

When the shoe fits ... wear it.

 

[Sapiens]

Expiate?

Definition of expiate
expiated; expiating
transitive verb
: to put an end to
: to extinguish the guilt incurred by: to make amends for

 

[Audie]

As we have expiate to you, at least several times, it isn't mythology.

You have STATED it, but expiate?
Expiate? In the present tense, at that,
after "have..."

And it is mythology.

We've suggested to others that they at a
minimum check the dictionary before trying
to teach the better educated.

 

[Etritonakin]

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth....

Everything after that sentence happened AFTER God initially created the heavens (universe) and the Earth.

The definitions of the words in the next sentence allow for -and, in the context of the rest of Genesis and other books, should read...

And the earth BECAME or HAD BECOME waste and ruin.

Any amount of time could have passed between the completion of the heavens and earth (at which the sons of God shouted for joy as described in Job) and the Earth becoming waste and ruin to an unspecified degree.

That which follows is not the initial creation.

By the spirit of God, the Word then made the Earth not waste and ruin.

As Satan ascended "above the heights of the clouds" when attempting to dethrone God -and was cast back down to Earth -and had already done so when interacting with humans in Eden -along with other verses -it is at least indicated that the state of the Earth was due to that conflict and/or neglect by the third of the angels under his command -and that the Earth was already there.

The lights, etc., are likewise not an initial creation, but relative positioning, etc.

The Word (by the working of his "glorious body" is able to "subdue all things unto himself") and spirits have bodies with far greater capabilities -and the sinning ages would have greater ability to destroy.

The animals created in Genesis were also not specified to be the first on earth -and Adam was the first to be created with the potential for eternal life -and is not actually specified to be the first humanoid on earth. Cain was concerned about others harming him -and found a wife in Nod when cast out of Eden. There is also a distinction made between the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Once something has been created or has developed, repeating the process is easier. Eve was said to be made from part of Adam. In modern terms, God made Eve from Adam's existing material/code/DNA. God is said to keep records -which would certainly be necessary for storing their "spirit" to be resurrected into a new and improved body later.

Ironically, we can accept that we might eventually be able to do such -but not that it is already "a thing"

 

[Skwim]

The animals created in Genesis were also not specified to be the first on earth

So you're contending that other animals, and I assume plants and such, were on earth before god said:

"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." (Gen. 1:11) and "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. (Gen 1:20) and " And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. (Gen 1:24)
​

is that about it?

​

-and Adam was the first to be created with the potential for eternal life -and is not actually specified to be the first humanoid on earth.

So, what is your source for these pre-Adamic humanoids?

Once something has been created or has developed, repeating the process is easier.

Why? Was creating plants and animals difficult for god?

God is said to keep records -which would certainly be necessary for storing their "spirit" to be resurrected into a new and improved body later.

Other than yourself, who says god kept such records? And, that they are necessary for storing their "spirit" to be resurrected?


.

 

[Kenny]

Ah, but it is.

However, I'm using the anthropological definition of "myth", namely that these are stories meant to convey teachings, regardless as to whether these "stories" are factually accurate.

And truly that is an application! (But I don't think that what the poster meant).

Where I begin to take it more literally is when it says "And King David had a son and named him Solomon". There may be a story will can pull out from it, but it is still his-story-ical

 

[metis]

Where I begin to take it more literally is when it says "And King David had a son and named him Solomon".

Ah, a very wise choice.

 

[Kenny]

Definition of mythology
plural mythologies
: an allegorical narrative
: a body of myths: such as: the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people
b : mythos 2

• cold war mythology

: a branch of knowledge that deals with myth
: a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something

When the shoe fits ... wear it.

But I do...

also defined

1. any invented story, idea, or concept:His account of the event is pure myth.

Which definition are you thinking of?

 

[Kenny]

You have STATED it, but expiate?
Expiate? In the present tense, at that,
after "have..."

And it is mythology.

We've suggested to others that they at a
minimum check the dictionary before trying
to teach the better educated.

LOL... actually "explained" but you did catch it. You are a good reader.

 

[Audie]

LOL... actually "explained" but you did catch it. You are a good reader.

Unusual for me actually, I'd be a terrible proof reader.

I just look at the shape of words.

And just giving you a hard time, you could not
possibly have meant "expiate".

 

[Kenny]

Unusual for me actually, I'd be a terrible proof reader.

I just look at the shape of words.

And just giving you a hard time, you could not
possibly have meant "expiate".

LOL... I am completely defenseless at this time. No come back, no remark... Can I laugh?

 

[CoexistentialCrisis]

"Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that 'evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God, and Theistic evolution, which accepts that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God'."
source

This is very well and good, but how does one reconcile this with the claims found in early Genesis where stuff happens independently of one another and in days, etc.?

.

The Days of Creation represent the 7 stages of our souls development. They aren't literal days.

If you draw comparisons to the 7 Chakras and 7 Root Races, you can see a pattern emerge as it describes the cyclic ascension of the soul.

Ever play the Whisper Game. One person whispers a phrase in another person's ear and they pass along the phrase by whispering it to someone else. Once everybody gets a turn, the last person says what they were told out loud; usually resulting in an evolved version of what began.

That's ALL of religion, in a nutshell. They're all distorted versions of a truth we once held.

 

[siti]

They're all distorted versions of a truth we once held.

That sounds like a rehash of the old "Golden Age" myth - a time when humans were much "closer to God"...and all the better for it! But how does that fit in with evolution? I mean, evolution suggests that our knowledge and understanding of the reality that surrounds us has been built up gradually as our species emerged from the less intelligent ones that preceded us. So how far back was it that we "held" that "truth"? Before religion - so when? Religion seems to have been around in some form in the neolithic period - so go back further - how far? Paleolithic cave-painting times? Pre-human times? Did our rodent-like ancestors scurrying around the legs of the dinosaurs "hold" that "truth"?

 

[Audie]

The Days of Creation represent the 7 stages of our souls development. They aren't literal days.

If you draw comparisons to the 7 Chakras and 7 Root Races, you can see a pattern emerge as it describes the cyclic ascension of the soul.

Ever play the Whisper Game. One person whispers a phrase in another person's ear and they pass along the phrase by whispering it to someone else. Once everybody gets a turn, the last person says what they were told out loud; usually resulting in an evolved version of what began.

That's ALL of religion, in a nutshell. They're all distorted versions of a truth we once held.

See why we dont believe any of you religionists?

No two have the same story!

 

[Sapiens]

Definition of mythology
plural mythologies
: an allegorical narrative
: a body of myths: such as: the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people
b : mythos 2

• cold war mythology

: a branch of knowledge that deals with myth
: a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something

When the shoe fits ... wear it.

But I do...

also defined

1. any invented story, idea, or concept:His account of the event is pure myth.

Which definition are you thinking of?

No need to quibble, both fit nicely.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Which is not what is being talked about here.


"Goo to zoo" is not an article of evolution. Biological evolution only deals with living organisms.

.

evolution to work requires
- non life to life
- single cell to multi
- invert to vertebrae
- asexual to sexual
- egg layer to non egg layer
- ape to man

but yes there is a law of biology that life comes form life... sounds like an obstacle to getting to first base

 

[Salvador]

"Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that 'evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God, and Theistic evolution, which accepts that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God'."
source

This is very well and good, but how does one reconcile this with the claims found in early Genesis where stuff happens independently of one another and in days, etc.?

.

RICHARD DAWKINS: " Well, I’m curious to know if Adam and Eve never existed where did original sin come from? But I also would like to clarify the point about whether there was ever a first human. That’s a rather difficult and puzzling question because we know that the previous species from which we’re descended is probably homo erectus and before that some sort of australopithecine but there never was a last homo erectus who gave birth to the first homo sapiens. Every creature ever born belonged to the same species as its parents. The process of evolution is so gradual that you can never say, aha, now suddenly we have the first human. It was always a case of just a slightly different from the previous generation. That’s a scientific point which I think is quite interesting. I’m not sure if it has a theological significance except that I think successive popes have tried to suggest that the soul did indeed get added, rather like gin to tonic, at some particular point during evolution; at some point in evolution there was no soul and then later there was one so it is quite an interesting question to ask. Now we have rather a good fossil record from Africa of the descent of humans from australopithecines to various species of homo, perhaps homo habilis, perhaps homo erectus, then archaic homo sapiens and then modern homo sapiens. At what point did the soul get injected and what does the idea of original sin mean if Adam and Eve never existed?"


"The Vatican's View of Evolution: The Story of Two Popes" The Vatican's View of Evolution: Pope Paul II and Pope Pius

 

[Subduction Zone]

evolution to work requires
- non life to life

Nope, that is abiogenesis. Evolution works whether the first life was natural, poofed into existence magically by a god as you believe, or planted here by aliens.

- single cell to multi
- invert to vertebrae
- asexual to sexual
- egg layer to non egg layer
- ape to man

but yes there is a law of biology that life comes form life... sounds like an obstacle to getting to first base

You were doing rather well, your post implies that man is not an ape, he still is. You still are an ape. And you do not understand the law of biogenesis. That only denies spontaneous generation, which is more of a creationist idea than anything else.

 

[Salvador]

Nope, that is abiogenesis. Evolution works whether the first life was natural, poofed into existence magically by a god as you believe, or planted here by aliens.
.

There's evidence life was indeed planted on our planet by aliens.


Extraterrestrial intelligence has indeed left its mark in our genetic code as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us descendants of our cosmic ancestor(s)with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

“There is no plausible chemical logic to couple directly the triplets and the amino acids. In other words, the principles of chemistry where not the sought essence of the genetic code”

“The zero is the supreme abstraction of arithmetic. Its use by any alphabet, including the genetic code, can be an indicator of artificiality.”

"The place-value decimal system represented through digital symmetry of the numbers divisible by prime number (PN 037). This arithmetical syntactic feature is an innate attribute of the genetic code. The PN 037 notation with a leading zero emphasizes zero's equal participation in the digital symmetry. Numbers written by identical digits are devised by PN 037*3=111 and 1+1+1=3 and appear regularly [from the figure: 037*6 =222 and 2+2+2=6, 037*9=333 and 3+3+3 =9, 037*4=444 and 4+4+4=12, 037*15=555 and 5+5+5=15, 037*18=666 and 6+6+6=18, 037*21=777 and 7+7+7 =21. 037*24 =888 and 8+8+8=24, 037*27=999 and 9+9+9=27.)"

"There is a complete set of information symbols utilizing the decimal syntax 111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888, 999 in the genetic code. Each of these symbols consists uniformly of a carrier (balanced nucleons) and a meaning (the decimal syntax)."

Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov. God does exist !!!! - The “Wow! signal” of the terrestrial genetic code - by Vladimir I. Cherbak and Maxim A. Makukov* | Genetic Code | Amino Acid

"The first information system emerged on the earth as primordial version of the genetic code and genetic texts. The natural appearance of arithmetic power in such a linguistic milieu is theoretically possible and practical for producing information systems of extremely high efficiency. In this case, the arithmetic symbols should be incorporated into an alphabet, i.e. the genetic code. A number is the fundamental arithmetic symbol produced by the system of numeration. If the system of numeration were detected inside the genetic code, it would be natural to expect that its purpose is arithmetic calculation e.g., for the sake of control, safety, and precise alteration of the genetic texts. The nucleons of amino acids and the bases of nucleic acids seem most suitable for embodiments of digits. These assumptions were used for the analyzing the genetic code.

The compressed, life-size, and split representation of the Escherichia coli and Euplotes octocarinatus code versions were considered simultaneously. An exact equilibration of the nucleon sums of the amino acid standard blocks and/or side chains was found repeatedly within specified sets of the genetic code. Moreover, the digital notations of the balanced sums acquired, in decimal representation, the unique form 111, 222, …, 999. This form is a consequence of the criterion of divisibility by 037. The criterion could simplify some computing mechanism of a cell if any and facilitate its computational procedure.

Reference: Biosystems Volume 70, Issue 3, August 2003, Pages 187-209
"Arithmetic inside the universal genetic code" Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4703000662


"Numerous arithmetical regularities of nucleon numbers of canonical amino acids for quite different systematizations of the genetic code, which are dominantly based on decimal number 037, indicate the hidden existence of a more universal ordering principle. Mathematical analysis of number 037 reveals that it is a unique decimal number from which an infinite set of self-similar numbers can be derived with the nested numerical, geometrical, and arithmetical properties, thus enabling the nested coding and computing in the (bio)systems by geometry and resonance. The omnipresent fractal structural and dynamical organization, as well as the intertwining of quantum and classical realm in the physical and biological systems could be just the consequence of such coding and computing."

Reference: NeuroQuantology | December 2011 | Vol 9 | Issue 4 | Page 702-715 Masic, Natasa Nested Properties of shCherbak’s PQ 037 and (Biological) Coding/Computing Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Propertiesof shCherbak’s Prime Quantum 037 as a Base of (Biological) Coding/Computing
http://Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Properties