Theistic (Biblical) Evolution: How Does This Sucker work?

[Audie]

The biblical theory of evolutions comes from verses of the following type.


New International Version
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

.

So "god" made domestic sheep, and wild ones.
Domestic horses, and wild ones.
Wild cattle, and domestic ones.

There is no "biblical theory of evolution"

 

[Audie]

Good out!!!

Are you under the impression that this is an "out" in the
sense of running away from a winning argument?

 

[1robin]

So "god" made domestic sheep, and wild ones.
Domestic horses, and wild ones.
Wild cattle, and domestic ones.

There is no "biblical theory of evolution"

God made the original sheep like animals, horse like animals, and cow like animals. Over the course of time these types of animals changed within their type or "kind". Some of these were domesticated. It is very hard to take biblical words and find to exact corresponding taxonomy terms for them. Think of it this way the bible limits evolution where as Darwinian evolution claims common descent is true. It is hard to extract any more out of the bible than this. The bible is not a biological textbook.

 

[1robin]

Are you under the impression that this is an "out" in the
sense of running away from a winning argument?

I was not the one that ended the discussion. If anyone was running it wasn't me. However I said that the other person's quitting was a good opportunity to cease the debate. "Good out" is a common enough expression.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God made the original sheep like animals, horse like animals, and cow like animals. Over the course of time these types of animals changed within their type or "kind". Some of these were domesticated. It is very hard to take biblical words and find to exact corresponding taxonomy terms for them. Think of it this way the bible limits evolution where as Darwinian evolution claims common descent is true. It is hard to extract any more out of the bible than this. The bible is not a biological textbook.

Fine, that is your belief. How do you explain the fact that the fossil record tells us that this is not the case?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was not the one that ended the discussion. If anyone was running it wasn't me. However I said that the other person's quitting was a good opportunity to cease the debate. "Good out" is a common enough expression.

Funny, you criticized @Skwim for refusing to have anything to do with you, yet you ran away from me, using a false excuse.

 

[1robin]

Fine, that is your belief. How do you explain the fact that the fossil record tells us that this is not the case?

Ok, since you wont stuff I am implementing a 3 step plan.

Step one is to clearly tell you what I am going to do.
Step 2 is to put you on my ignore list.
Step 3 is to report you for trolling.

We are at step one. I do not want to have a discussion with you at this time. Not in any thread. So stop clogging up my alerts page. If you cannot control yourself I will put you on my ignore list. If you still can't stop I will report you. I have never reported anyone for anything but your going too far. Stop now and we can have another discussion sometime in the future. Keep posting to me and I will give up on you.

 

[Audie]

God made the original sheep like animals, horse like animals, and cow like animals. Over the course of time these types of animals changed within their type or "kind". Some of these were domesticated. It is very hard to take biblical words and find to exact corresponding taxonomy terms for them. Think of it this way the bible limits evolution where as Darwinian evolution claims common descent is true. It is hard to extract any more out of the bible than this. The bible is not a biological textbook.

That aint what the bible says

 

[1robin]

That aint what the bible says

No, that's my interpretation of the following verse:

New International Version
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good

If you want to do some more reading check this out:What Does after Its Kind Mean?

I am curious to know what mistakes you think I made in my interpretation. What's your interpretation of verses like that one above?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok, since you wont stuff I am implementing a 3 step plan.

Step one is to clearly tell you what I am going to do.
Step 2 is to put you on my ignore list.
Step 3 is to report you for trolling.

We are at step one. I do not want to have a discussion with you at this time. Not in any thread. So stop clogging up my alerts page. If you cannot control yourself I will put you on my ignore list. If you still can't stop I will report you. I have never reported anyone for anything but your going too far. Stop now and we can have another discussion sometime in the future. Keep posting to me and I will give up on you.

Once again this is a public forum. I have been far more polite with you than you have been with me. If you can't deal with the corrections of your errors perhaps you should not be trying to debate.

Why don't you try to be polite and learn from your errors? When it comes to evolution there is no debate any longer, only corrections of what are either amazingly wrong statements and quite often lies by creationists. And I have never trolled you, at least less so than you have trolled both me and others. For example complaining about "color commentary" could qualify as trolling.

And in my first post here I responded to where you used a creationist site when "theistic evolution" is the acceptance of evolution, but assuming that God had a hand in it. I even supplied a link to the site by the Christian that invented the term.

What you are describing here is merely creationism and not theistic evolution.

 

[Audie]

No, that's my interpretation of the following verse:

New International Version
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good

If you want to do some more reading check this out:What Does after Its Kind Mean?

I am curious to know what mistakes you think I made in my interpretation. What's your interpretation of verses like that one above?

Dog, goat, pig, sheep. cow, cat chicken, guinea pig, chicken,
donkey water buffalo pigeon goose llama reindeer.......

and so on were all created separately as domestic animals,
with genetically identical wild cousins?

People had no role in domesticating them, they came
ready made. Is that what you think? The people who did
all the hard work might be a little annoyed with such
statements.

Of course animals reproduce "after their kind".

But are offspring identical to the parents?

Of course not. So we accept that there are
changes, and that the changes can accumulate.

But, you say, it is "so far and no further, as per limits
set by "god"?

Where does the bible say that?

 

[1robin]

Dog, goat, pig, sheep. cow, cat chicken, guinea pig, chicken,
donkey water buffalo pigeon goose llama reindeer.......

and so on were all created separately as domestic animals,
with genetically identical wild cousins?

Are you asking me a question? I am not sure what your driving at here but I do not think what you posted is accurate. Originally there were only wild animals, but over many years some of them were bread and became "tame".

People had no role in domesticating them, they came
ready made. Is that what you think? The people who did
all the hard work might be a little annoyed with such
statements.

Are you saying this is what you believe? If so can you explain why you think this to be true. For example I do not believe tame Cows were created. I believe they were purposely bread from wild cattle until we have what we have today. Do you understand breeding processes.

Of course animals reproduce "after their kind".

I said evolve after their kind. That is a bit different.

But are offspring identical to the parents?

No

Of course not. So we accept that there are
changes, and that the changes can accumulate.

Agreed but this seem sto fly in the face of your other comments above.

But, you say, it is "so far and no further, as per limits
set by "god"?

Where does the bible say that?

For example God created an original dog kind. Over the course of many years those original dogs became wolves, coyotes, great danes, toy dog breeds, etc..... I don't believe they ever evolve into non-dogs. IOW I do not believe that common descent is true.

You keep suggesting that my biblical interpretation is wrong. Please interpret the following verse and tell me what you think it says.

New International Version
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

I also provided a link as to the interpretation of verses like the one above and it agrees with my own interpretation. Did you read it? It isn't very long. Please do so and tell me whether you agree or not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know that 1robin believes in creationism. But that is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is "Theistic evolution" a term coined by Frances Collins, a Christian and biologist that accepts the fact that life as we know it today is the product of evolution, he accepts common descent.

' Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God",[3] and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God". '

Theistic evolution - Wikipedia

He was the one that started Biologos, an organization that tries to explain evolution to Christians:

BioLogos

Hmm, I wonder if I should report him for trolling for trying to change the topic of the thread

 

[ecco]

I know that 1robin believes in creationism. But that is not the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is "Theistic evolution" a term coined by Frances Collins, a Christian and biologist that accepts the fact that life as we know it today is the product of evolution, he accepts common descent.

' Francis Collins describes theistic evolution as the position that "evolution is real, but that it was set in motion by God",[3] and characterizes it as accepting "that evolution occurred as biologists describe it, but under the direction of God". '

Theistic evolution - Wikipedia

He was the one that started Biologos, an organization that tries to explain evolution to Christians:

BioLogos

Hmm, I wonder if I should report him for trolling for trying to change the topic of the thread

Theistic evolution requires one to discard the notion that the Bible is absolute literal truth. That is something that many people can not do. Early childhood indoctrination is difficult to overcome. For some, it is impossible.

 

[Audie]

Are you asking me a question? I am not sure what your driving at here but I do not think what you posted is accurate. Originally there were only wild animals, but over many years some of them were bread and became "tame".

Are you saying this is what you believe? If so can you explain why you think this to be true. For example I do not believe tame Cows were created. I believe they were purposely bread from wild cattle until we have what we have today. Do you understand breeding processes.

I said evolve after their kind. That is a bit different.

No

Agreed but this seem sto fly in the face of your other comments above.

For example God created an original dog kind. Over the course of many years those original dogs became wolves, coyotes, great danes, toy dog breeds, etc..... I don't believe they ever evolve into non-dogs. IOW I do not believe that common descent is true.

You keep suggesting that my biblical interpretation is wrong. Please interpret the following verse and tell me what you think it says.

New International Version
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

I also provided a link as to the interpretation of verses like the one above and it agrees with my own interpretation. Did you read it? It isn't very long. Please do so and tell me whether you agree or not.

You are saying, quite correctly, that people developed the
various domestic breeds from wild ancestors.

I do of course understand that the bible is read to say a
great many different things.

The bible, though, says with great clarity* that
they were all created at the same time.

I understand too that the actual history of life,
as so nicely recorded in the fossil history
does not correspond to what is described in
the bible- there are only religious reasons for thinking
that there are set "kinds" from which no
change of "kind" is possible.

"Test all things, but not if it might contradict
a cherished belief" is the functional interpretation of
one bible passage.

Reading what agrees with you, btw, can sometimes
be taken for confirmation bias. Just sayhin'

*wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds

 

[Subduction Zone]

Theistic evolution requires one to discard the notion that the Bible is absolute literal truth. That is something that many people can not do. Early childhood indoctrination is difficult to overcome. For some, it is impossible.

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie. How many times have we seen the incredible cognitive dissonance that comes with those beliefs? Otherwise intelligent people all of a sudden appear to become fools when their cherished beliefs are shown to be wrong.

 

[1robin]

You are saying, quite correctly, that people developed the
various domestic breeds from wild ancestors.

Correct.

I do of course understand that the bible is read to say a
great many different things.

Yes but proper exegesis is to read all scriptures in the context of the rest of the bible.

The bible, though, says with great clarity* that
they were all created at the same time.

Which verse?

understand too that the actual history of life,
as so nicely recorded in the fossil history
does not correspond to what is described in
the bible- there are only religious reasons for thinking
that there are set "kinds" from which no
change of "kind" is possible.

It does if you use my interpretation that is why I wnted to know your own interpretation.

"Test all things, but not if it might contradict
a cherished belief"

is the functional interpretation of
one bible passage.

Are you saying I accept contradictions because of some cherished belief? What belief would that be?

Reading what agrees with you, btw, can sometimes
be taken for confirmation bias. Just sayhin'

Why would I care if the bible said things simply evolve instead of they were created. I don't have a dog in the race.

*wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds

So your saying you believe the bible created wild cattle at the same moment he created domestic cows?

 

[Audie]

Correct.

Yes but proper exegesis is to read all scriptures in the context of the rest of the bible.

Which verse?

It does if you use my interpretation that is why I wnted to know your own interpretation.

Are you saying I accept contradictions because of some cherished belief? What belief would that be?

Why would I care if the bible said things simply evolve instead of they were created. I don't have a dog in the race.

So your saying you believe the bible created wild cattle at the same moment he created domestic cows?

"So I am saying...."

Hardly. The bible did not create anything. It says, though,
the domestic and wild versions of cattle etc were created
simultaneously.


What verse!!!??? I copied it from you and it it is right there
at the bottom of the post you are answering!!

*wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds"

Dont see how it could be more plain than that.

 

[1robin]

"So I am saying...."

Hardly. The bible did not create anything. It says, though,
the domestic and wild versions of cattle etc were created
simultaneously.


What verse!!!??? I copied it from you and it it is right there
at the bottom of the post you are answering!!

*wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds"

Dont see how it could be more plain than that.

Sorry but I do not have enough time at present to continue our discussion.

 

[Astrophile]

There's evidence life was indeed planted on our planet by aliens.


Extraterrestrial intelligence has indeed left its mark in our genetic code as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code.

What did the aliens evolve from, and what is their genetic code like?