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Featured The Willful Ignorance of Creationism

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Every time I recommend reading a book that lays out all of the evidence for evolution to creationists (typically Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne or similar books), they always either do not respond, or state that they will not read it. Why could this be? If they truly believed in searching for the truth, they would read books that challenge their current viewpoint. If they had confidence in their beliefs, they would research the arguments of the other side, and would not fear a challenge to their belief system. But the fact that they refuse to research all of the evidence for evolution by reading a pro-evolution book indicates to me that they fear that being presented with the evidence will change their mind. And this fear of evidence is common among all creationists that I have encountered, not just those on this forum. I grew up in an environment of fundamentalist Christians who either sent their children to private schools or home-schooled them because they did not want their children to learn about the evidence for evolution in public schools. The only motivation for this that I can think of is fear. These people know that their belief system is weak, and they fear that being presented with evidence for evolution would change their minds and their children's minds, thus they literally hide themselves and their children from this evidence, out of their fear that they will realize just how weak their belief system actually is.

    I hope that this does not come across as too accusatory or preachy. I am simply reporting my personal observations of how creationists (both on this forum and in my personal life) behave in the face of evidence for evolution. But maybe some of them will prove me wrong. How many of you young-earth creationists will take up my challenge to read Jerry Coyne's book Why Evolution is True? If any of you will take the time to read it, I will gladly have a discussion with you about it.
     
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  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I also suggest the book The Not so Intelligent Designer by Abby Hafer where it is clearly explained how animals are so genetically fragile that they undergo mutations restlessly...and how the evidence excludes an intelligent design a priori.
     
    #2 Estro Felino, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I have noticed that most creationists neither understand the concept of scientific evidence not the scientific method. It would only take a few minutes to go over these concepts, and if I was wrong I would quickly admit it and move on. But they appear to be too afraid to do even that.

    If they are not going to take a few minutes to learn the basics, which on their own do not refute their beliefs how much hope can you have that they will spend hours reading a book?
     
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  4. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    I have listened to many videos by Jerry Coyne and here is a short promo for his book.



    When you listen to him promoting evolution, it all sounds very convincing, so I'll let people watch this and evaluate what he says before I offer my own comments.....

    What do evolutionists think he is saying?
     
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  5. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Ah yes, they love their random in cartoon Form.
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    when fighting a conflagration, a backfire is often a good plan of action. fight fire with fire.


    evolution is in the bible. it's originally known as a alchemical process where you change one form of metal into another. either the metal fails from environmental conditions, or transformed(evolves). fire in this case is the catalyst that induces the change. adaption(transformation) comes when environmental pressures induces change.

    some call it trial by fire. pressure changes things, tests the mettle of most things. change the mind and you can change the matter because energy cannot be created/destroyed, but it can be developed(evolved) into something else. a change in environment induces a change, or adaptation; otherwise the species goes extinct and something else will fill the vacuum.


    Deuteronomy 4:20
    But the Lord hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as you are this day. - this is turning base metals into gold.

    the philosophers stone, the smaragdine stone is the heart of a person capabilities to adapt and change - conquer the self, the ego, the beast.


    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    it's always darkest before the dawn and the light of understanding arises in the heart

    Jeremiah 31:33
    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.



    Jade Books in Heaven - Wikipedia
     
    #6 Fool, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  7. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Don't hold your breath. You know they won't and you know why.

    Of course, no doubt they think of evolutionists in much the same way. If we just opened our hearts to the truth of Christ and the word of god (the Bible) we too would see the folly of our belief in the lies of evolution and quickly join those warming themselves by the creationist camp fire.

    .
     
    #7 Skwim, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
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  8. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Wow! So Darwin and Wallace were plagiarists.

    BUT WAIT, since when has evolution been the changing of one metal into another? As you were, evolution was NOT in the Bible.
     
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  9. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Creationists, at least those dependent upon certain scriptures, simply cannot fathom the idea that what they are reading and believe in, is misguided and erroneous.
     
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  10. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    WOW!!!!, didn't say that they were plagiarists. the idea, process of evolution is implied in the books of the hebrews, hidden in allegory. its interesting that when the exact verbiage isn't used that people can't see the same action, process.


    alchemy isn't about changing metals into gold. its the idea that when someone is put through a change it either adapts and evolves or fails. the bible is chalked full of allegorical references, man as a metal, pottery, lion, lamb, tree, vine, water, mountain, book, scroll, et al. language implies much.
     
    #10 Fool, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  11. james blunt

    james blunt Well-Known Member

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    This world suffers from willful ignorance in general to most things let alone anything else. Most of the people in the world are stupid people. In the school, they teach people to be stupid people.
     
  12. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    I refer to my previous comments on this Forum. Why on earth can't these sacred books be written in plain, unambiguous language.
    Phrases such as 'implied', 'hidden in allegory', 'allegorical references' do not impress and I smell b*llsh*t.

    Alchemy was the forerunner of chemistry and was involved primarily in transformation of matter into other matter and it was one gigantic failure.
     
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  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    languages are based on culture. poetry, prose, and song were considered the height of intelligence by some ancient cultures.

    thus the vedas are imbued with allegory and other ancient works, just as the books of the hebrews. storytelling is considered an art among most indigenous tribes. a good story is amusing. a great story leaves the reader with ideas about morals and how life operates no matter the age, culture, or environment.


    people are like books, everyone is a story in themselves. never judge a book by it's cover.

    Proverbs 27:17
    Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his love.

    giggles


    Other Ancient Civilizations - Classical Literature
     
    #13 Fool, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  14. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    As a (gnostic) Christian, how we got here doesn't even play a part in my mind. Everything is created by something before it. Since I don't accept the OT, I don't accept the 6 day creation process. If the big bang is a reality, then I believe something above it did the banging.
     
  15. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    So why are the likes of Shakespeare not ambiguous?

    Also, if this God is really the supreme being he said he is, couldn't he just issue a revised version in modern language?
     
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  16. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    works of fiction can still convey ideas or universal action and relationships.

    В. Комарова. «Метафоры и аллегории в произведениях Шекспира» :: Metaphors and allegories in the works of Shakespeare. Summary


    languages are cultural based and cultures are cultivated based on the environment. that is what you call evolution from adaptation. you've been led to believe that god is something other than human, other than it's creative self, something other than nature itself, it isn't.

    it's either pantheistic, or panentheistic.

    pantheistic means the natural world is an expression of god in form at any given moment in space/time.
    panentheistic means the natural world is an expression of god in all forms across space/time and even when the natural world appears to have no form.

    love is not like a species, a form, that arises and collapses. it's a verb, an action, a movement first. it's a thing that ripples out forever like a wave on the ocean, or river of lights across the universe......... it is only identified as a noun second. giving it a name only acknowledges it's action. it cannot be isolated to a specific place in space/time. it transcends and tranforms.
     
  17. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you read his book? YouTube videos don't even scratch the surface of the evidence he presents in his book.
     
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  18. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    What is he saying? He's promoting his book and giving reasons to read it. he also gave *hints* of a couple of pieces of evidence for evolution.

    I haven't read the book, so not much more to say.
     
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  19. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    I'd recommend the book. It's very interesting, although I'm guessing you probably already know most of the information given in it.
     
  20. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I can always learn more.
     
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