The US is #1...

[Falvlun]

In income inequality.

A new paper by economists Facundo Alvaredo, Anthony B. Atkinson, Thomas Piketty, and Emmanuel Saez lays out just how much better at making inequality the U.S. is than everybody else and tries to explain how it got that way.

The U.S. has the worst income equality in the developed world.

The top 1% have doubled their slice of the income pie, from 10% in 1960 to 20% now.

Let me repeat that: 1% of U.S. citizens control 20% of the wealth.

So, what has caused this concentration of wealth? Should we presume that the middle class and poor people have just gotten 200% lazier?

According to the study, a huge factor is the tax breaks for the wealthiest individuals that occurred during this time-frame. They have seen their taxes slashed by 40%.

The other huge factor is the rise of Wall Street, taking advantage of new, friendly legislation, particularly the ease and low taxes on capital gains.

And all this money, of course, makes it possible to buy politicians and more top friendly legislation.

I am interested in the conservative response to this, and how they mesh their belief that financial success is based upon merit, with these facts.

Do you think that it is a good thing that 20% of wealth is in the hands of 1%? What is unreasonable about re-raising the taxes of these uber-wealthy people, back to higher levels, to allow the country's wealth to flow more equitably?

The argument against raising taxes on the rich is that this constitutes "redistribution of the wealth". Well, it appears that this is precisely how these people got some of that money-- by redistributing 10% of the nation's wealth into their own coffers.

 

[tytlyf]

First line is misleading. Do you mean the US is #1 in income inequality?

 

[Falvlun]

First line is misleading. Do you mean the US is #1 in income inequality?

Why yes, yes I do. That's just a lot of "in"s there. I fixed it.

 

[F0uad]

Oooo... i was expecting to hear something like: America is number 1 in being the most violent nation in the world with only existing for 300 years..

 

[Penumbra]

In income inequality.

The U.S. has the worst income equality in the developed world.

The top 1% have doubled their slice of the income pie, from 10% in 1960 to 20% now.

Let me repeat that: 1% of U.S. citizens control 20% of the wealth.

Actually, you're underselling your point. The top 1% of U.S. citizens do earn 20% of income, but income and wealth are different.

The top 1% control about 35% or so of the wealth.

Source.

Breaking it down another way, the top 20% of people control more than 80% of the wealth. Here is a chart on the quintiles:

Source.

One more way of putting it, is that the top 400 richest Americans combined have approximately equal the wealth of the bottom 150 million Americans combined.
Source.

So, what has caused this concentration of wealth?

A reduction in top income tax rates and mild increases in middle class tax rates. We have a slightly regressive tax structure in terms of tax payments and net worth.

Plus, we're one of the only developed countries that doesn't have true universal health care, and doesn't pay for most of college for qualifying individuals. So Americans pay way more for health care, and typically start their careers out in major student debt.

 

[Quintessence]

You know, when I mentioned in casual conversation that I think there should be a law that forbids the top wage earner to make more than ten times the wage of the lowest income earner (assuming full-time employment for a full year) I got called a "communist." Frankly, I thought the ten times rule was being generous. I'm sorry, but nothing any human being does is so important as to justify some of the outrageous salaries I hear about. In a time where state budgets are squeezed, the presidents at the universities of my state got raises. They already have six-figure salaries. The amount of money they got from their raise could support me pretty comfortably. Ten percent of their total salaries could support me MORE than pretty comfortably. That's sick.

 

[Penumbra]

You know, when I mentioned in casual conversation that I think there should be a law that forbids the top wage earner to make more than ten times the wage of the lowest income earner (assuming full-time employment for a full year) I got called a "communist." Frankly, I thought the ten times rule was being generous. I'm sorry, but nothing any human being does is so important as to justify some of the outrageous salaries I hear about. In a time where state budgets are squeezed, the presidents at the universities of my state got raises. They already have six-figure salaries. The amount of money they got from their raise could support me pretty comfortably. Ten percent of their total salaries could support me MORE than pretty comfortably. That's sick.

As a shareholder, I vote against all of the pay packages of the executives of the stocks I own, except for two that I think are fair. The ratio of CEO pay to average pay has shot up like crazy over the last several decades, and as a shareholder I'd prefer not paying executives tens of millions of dollars per year. In the proxies, the way the company typically justifies the pay is to compare it to their peer group, but that doesn't mean anything when the whole peer group has doubled and then doubled again in executive pay.

There are also some interesting correlations where excessive executive pay has been linked with poor shareholder returns, so in other words, some of the highest paid CEOs have often been some of the worst performers. I see little reason to approve a $15 million pay package to any executive of any company that I have a stake in.

 

[DallasApple]

We are ******! Im buying stock in pharm hannibus!

 

[Kalidas]

You know, when I mentioned in casual conversation that I think there should be a law that forbids the top wage earner to make more than ten times the wage of the lowest income earner (assuming full-time employment for a full year) I got called a "communist." Frankly, I thought the ten times rule was being generous. I'm sorry, but nothing any human being does is so important as to justify some of the outrageous salaries I hear about. In a time where state budgets are squeezed, the presidents at the universities of my state got raises. They already have six-figure salaries. The amount of money they got from their raise could support me pretty comfortably. Ten percent of their total salaries could support me MORE than pretty comfortably. That's sick.

Also here is what I think is bullcrap. THEY get to decide what they get! They get their budget and then decide what goes where including their own pay. the whole situation is just stupid. I have yet to hear a rational reason these super rich should have so much. I hear it's because it's their company and they worked hard to get there. No THEY did not work hard all their underpaid employees worked hard, they barely work at all. I heard "Don't be mad at them for being successful" I'm not mad that their successful I'm and that their using this success to make it impossible for anyone else to be successful via lobbying and paying off politicians. Having all your wealth all stocked up in just 20% of the citizens is actually REALLY bad business. If for any reason just a few of these people fail miserably a MASSIVE chunk of that wealth gets flushed down the toilet. Oh hey that recently happened, it was one of the leading causes of the recession. And what did we do? Bailed them out? That's ********! If I blow all my money and bad practices and horrible money schemes I go bankrupt and go homeless, the rich get money from tax payers, there is no free market just oligarchy. oh and we recently slashed food stamps (of whom 505 of the recipients are CHILDREN!) so we can give the rich MORE subsidies. Yeah america that's a good idea take food out of the mouths of children so Mr. Rich ******* can buy his third island!

 

[BSM1]

Also here is what I think is bullcrap. THEY get to decide what they get! They get their budget and then decide what goes where including their own pay. the whole situation is just stupid. I have yet to hear a rational reason these super rich should have so much. I hear it's because it's their company and they worked hard to get there. No THEY did not work hard all their underpaid employees worked hard, they barely work at all. I heard "Don't be mad at them for being successful" I'm not mad that their successful I'm and that their using this success to make it impossible for anyone else to be successful via lobbying and paying off politicians. Having all your wealth all stocked up in just 20% of the citizens is actually REALLY bad business. If for any reason just a few of these people fail miserably a MASSIVE chunk of that wealth gets flushed down the toilet. Oh hey that recently happened, it was one of the leading causes of the recession. And what did we do? Bailed them out? That's ********! If I blow all my money and bad practices and horrible money schemes I go bankrupt and go homeless, the rich get money from tax payers, there is no free market just oligarchy. oh and we recently slashed food stamps (of whom 505 of the recipients are CHILDREN!) so we can give the rich MORE subsidies. Yeah america that's a good idea take food out of the mouths of children so Mr. Rich ******* can buy his third island!

When did we slash food stamps? Source?

 

[Kalidas]

When did we slash food stamps? Source?

House bill would cut food stamps, farm subsidies - CBS News

Unless the bill hasn't passed yet but I swear I heard it passed. If not then I am sorry for the misinformation.

 

[Kalidas]

which even if it hasn't passed yet the fact that this bill is even in the house still proves my point

 

[adi2d]

If you guys change the rules I think I'll go for janitor job at baseball stadium. I think I could make ends meet with 10 percent of top players salary
:sarcastic: :sarcastic

 

[DallasApple]

If you guys change the rules I think I'll go for janitor job at baseball stadium. I think I could make ends meet with 10 percent of top players salary
:sarcastic: :sarcastic

Save it in a tin can in the yard..its too late to buy gold.:sorry1::sorry1:

 

[Freelance_Policeman]

So...we should prevent people from being successful?

 

[Penumbra]

So...we should prevent people from being successful?

I think a better idea is to have a tax structure such that billionaire Warren Buffett doesn't pay a lower tax rate than a middle class or upper middle class individual.

 

[Kalidas]

So...we should prevent people from being successful?

No one wants to stop people from being successful, but being fair is another thing entirely. I think EVERYONE should pay their fair share of the tax burden. Sadly the super rich do not.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Actually, you're underselling your point. The top 1% of U.S. citizens do earn 20% of income, but income and wealth are different.

The top 1% control about 35% or so of the wealth.

Source.

Breaking it down another way, the top 20% of people control more than 80% of the wealth. Here is a chart on the quintiles:

Source.

One more way of putting it, is that the top 400 richest Americans combined have approximately equal the wealth of the bottom 150 million Americans combined.
Source.

A reduction in top income tax rates and mild increases in middle class tax rates. We have a slightly regressive tax structure in terms of tax payments and net worth.

Plus, we're one of the only developed countries that doesn't have true universal health care, and doesn't pay for most of college for qualifying individuals. So Americans pay way more for health care, and typically start their careers out in major student debt.

Awesome.....Your source puts mine to shame.....:sad:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

But II think we're on the same page.....:yes:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

House bill would cut food stamps, farm subsidies - CBS News

Unless the bill hasn't passed yet but I swear I heard it passed. If not then I am sorry for the misinformation.

It passed in the House but hasn't made it's way to the Senate. It will DIE in the Senate and the POTUS would never sign such a dumb bill. This is typical of Republicans. They believe they're "standing on principal" and seem to have no idea how to govern....because a severe cut to SNAP will undoubtedly affect their base.

The original bipartisan bill was going to cut, I think $5 Billion - I'll have to check that, but then Republicans in the House, when voting on the Farm bill, wanted to cut $20 Billion from the SNAP (Food Stamp Program)....but the whole bill died. So the republicans split the SNAP from the Farm bill. They wanted to fund the Farm Bill and add extra pork to it and on their separated SNAP Bill, something that has never been done since they've been voting on the Farm Bill, they proposed to cut and additional $20 Billion Dollars from SNAP...totally $40 Billion from the Food Stamp (SNAP) Program.....

I think these pigs are horrible human beings.........:sad:

 

[Kalidas]

It passed in the House but hasn't made it's way to the Senate. It will DIE in the Senate and the POTUS would never sign such a dumb bill. This is typical of Republicans. They believe they're "standing on principal" and seem to have no idea how to govern....because a severe cut to SNAP will undoubtedly affect their base.

The original bipartisan bill was going to cut, I think $5 Billion - I'll have to check that, but then Republicans in the House, when voting on the Farm bill, wanted to cut $20 Billion from the SNAP (Food Stamp Program)....but the whole bill died. So the republicans split the SNAP from the Farm bill. They wanted to fund the Farm Bill and add extra pork to it and on their separated SNAP Bill, something that has never been done since they've been voting on the Farm Bill, they proposed to cut and additional $20 Billion Dollars from SNAP...totally $40 Billion from the Food Stamp (SNAP) Program.....

I think these pigs are horrible human beings.........:sad:

Okay i knew I heard it passed somewhere. Still as I said the fact that it is even being discussed as a plausible idea is sickening. People ask if america is a Christian nation, I say no. NO proper christian would be okay with these kinds of bills, no we are a nation that worships money. money is the new God the rich are priests and the middle class are the sacrifices to appease the new God.