The UK's Greatest Prime Minister died this morning.

[Alceste]

One extra point.......

Margaret Thatcher,the first woman to rise in politics to become Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, an outstanding stride in Equality for all.

And you, a feminist (I believe?) , have totally ignored that fact?

Feminists are against gender discrimination. That means you don't get any accolades just for not having a penis. It's important to also be competent. That's why feminists weren't overjoyed at Sarah Palin's sudden rise to fame.

 

[oldbadger]

Feminists are against gender discrimination. That means you don't get any accolades just for not having a penis. It's important to also be competent. That's why feminists weren't overjoyed at Sarah Palin's sudden rise to fame.

I remember the name, vaguely, but that is all.

But I often read and hear of acclaim for women who have excelled ......... now to read that only sexists pigs raised them high? Have I got that right?

Margaret Thatcher becoming one of the World's leaders, and holding that office for 11 years could not be written off so soon, surely? Could you have done it, do you think?

 

[oldbadger]

No, I was influenced by the English in general. I was there for several months when her decade-long reign of labour abuse and IRA provocation collapsed around her. The bitter fruits of her efforts were strongly felt by the young, who were suddenly beset by skyrocketing homelessness and unemployment. I heard their stories, and the stories of angry young soldiers freshly returned from the Falklands, in and around the pub I worked in in central London. I also heard the angry sentiments of the elderly, such as my lovely downstairs neighbour who used to make us weak, sugary tea. Living on a fixed income, she was not particularly fond of the notion of a poll tax.

The second time I lived in England, people were mostly hating on Blair, but Thatcher was far from forgotten. Even two decades later, she was no more popular than before.

I did also live in Ireland for a short while, but the spite of the working class Irish for Thatcher pales in comparison to the spite of the working class English I met.

Wow.....what a bad press that was! Do you teach rhetoric by any chance?

The bitter fruits of the young, beset by homelessness all started well before Thatcher's time. We (with two kids) were homeless in the 70's.

 

[Alceste]

I remember the name, vaguely, but that is all.

But I often read and hear of acclaim for women who have excelled ......... now to read that only sexists pigs raised them high? Have I got that right?

Margaret Thatcher becoming one of the World's leaders, and holding that office for 11 years could not be written off so soon, surely? Could you have done it, do you think?

Where did you get that from? I only said that feminists are not going to celebrate the success of any particular woman just because she hasn't got a penis. I assume the British public in general, sexist pigs or not, elevated her to power, though I can't imagine why. Her legacy leaves feminists nothing to get excited about, as all her efforts were to benefit the rich at the expense of the working class. Such values do not rank very highly on the feminist agenda.

 

[lunakilo]

On our side of the pond, it was Reagan who ended the cold war.

And here I was thinking it was Gorbatjov

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Gorbachev bowed to an inevitability. Reagan's military spending spree forced the USSR to try and keep up, effectively destroying their poorly designed economic model. Reagan deserves most of the kudos for the end of Soviet Russia.

Every single American president deserves credit. Reagan just happened to be their when it happened. The Soviet Unions economy started to fall apart well before Reagan. Keeping up I have seen no evidence of that. The fact is that the CIA for years could not recognize that the Soviet Union was falling a part. They overestimated both there armed forces and there economic strength.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

And here I was thinking it was Gorbatjov

True

thatcher showed them nothing but hate.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

She will be remembered by the Rich for supporting their greed and making it ok to despise the poor. For selling off the countries silver. (who owns those shares now) Selling off the social housing so there are no houses for the young to rent today. She believed a country could live off the service industries.

Every one else remembers her with hate.
If there is a hell, she will know now, how the rest of us felt. and that evil has to be paid for.

As for the Falklands. if she had not withdrawn our navy and most of the garrison to save money, they would never have been attacked.

 

[Secret Chief]

Agreed,i think there are going to many who feel the same way and they will let their presence felt at the funeral.

Correct. Thatcher made herself the rallying point for the British class conflict. This weekend and on Wednesday Britain will reap some of her bitter harvest.

 

[Secret Chief]

Feminists are against gender discrimination. That means you don't get any accolades just for not having a penis. It's important to also be competent. That's why feminists weren't overjoyed at Sarah Palin's sudden rise to fame.

As a man, I am offended that it is suggested Thatcher Milk Snatcher was not a woman. Please, I insist ladies, you keep her!

 

[oldbadger]

She will be remembered by the Rich for supporting their greed and making it ok to despise the poor.

But as you also mention, she gave the poor a chance to own a home, defended miners who wanted to work (and were being attacked by gangs), and she never caused a winter of discontent like 1979. Do you remember the rubbish piles power cuts and all? By the way...... I never voted for her party, just want to look back as fairly as I can.

For selling off the countries silver. (who owns those shares now) Selling off the social housing so there are no houses for the young to rent today. She believed a country could live off the service industries.

We were already deeply in trouble. Her decisions held the collapse off until now? And we have masses of good housing associations, although I admit that funding is dropping away sharply just now. That's the least of our worries, I reckon.

Every one else remembers her with hate.
If there is a hell, she will know now, how the rest of us felt. and that evil has to be paid for.

I know that the Sun is a bluey, but the headlines today say that a poll shows her as more popular than Winston. I know! Bloody papers, but this does show another face to our feelings about her.

As for the Falklands. if she had not withdrawn our navy and most of the garrison to save money, they would never have been attacked.

Ah!!! Was it Lord Carrington who resigned? OK...... Does one mistake destroy her? How many disasters did Winston cause before his greatest time?

 

[England my lionheart]

Ok....... ok.....

But she also gave thousands and thousands of council-house dwellers the chance to own their homes. I never voted blue, but she was one hell of a woman, just like Churchill was one hell of a man. I swear that Maggie could have taken us thru the blitz just as well. Sometimes we need an old so-and-so to keep us going. She was something else. And she was a woman, which most feminists seem to want to ignore?

Yes the vote catcher,own your council house,at least until its repossessed in the recession,her government sold everything and the icing on the cake was a title for her and for some reason her offspring.

The only comparison I can see with her and Churchill is that they were both useless during peacetime and that's it except she was also inept at war,funny enough our present government are inept too and just like her completely out of touch with the British people,like her they are not listening and are going to waste 11 million pounds on burying that old bag of bones whether we like it or not,listening to Cameron in the House of Commons today brought back feelings of being sick listening to her.

 

[Musty]

BBC News - Obituary: Baroness Thatcher

I can't claim to any indepth knowledge of Baroness Thatcher or time in charge but I'm generally reluctant to place too much importance on leaders impact on a country.

It seems to me that the the the person in charge is just one of a multitude of factors which determine the course of a countries history and governments/leaders have a tendency to claim credit for good things and assign blame elsewhere when there is no clear evidence that their actions had any real quantifiable impact.

I do however think it's quite sad that people are celebrating her death. Regardless of her politics she's still a human being with family and friends who'll mourn her passing. I'd be upset if people celebrated the death of one of my friends and family.

 

[Alceste]

As a man, I am offended that it is suggested Thatcher Milk Snatcher was not a woman. Please, I insist ladies, you keep her!

Let's both reject her.

 

[Secret Chief]

Let's both reject her.

I agree; it was not human.

£11m to bury her!!!!!??? Funny how national poverty prevents so much, but when we need £11m to bury a body it's not a problem. Em cufk.

 

[dust1n]

No I don't forget. But we the people, the 99.99999999etc% of humanity vote (or allow) these leaders into power, usually based upon their offers, take as much as we can from the system, and then years later, blame them for the mess-ups that we have allowed. And we never blame ourselves, it's always some other crowd, group, party......or leader.

Which is very different than 'respect,' which is the term we were just using until goal posts were moved.

It is true that they 'blunder'. Churchill came unstuck many times. But for people like him to have the unbelievable guts to stand up again, and carry on, rather than run and hide........ to carry a nation thru darkest times alone ...... that's the ticket. And I reckon that Margaret Thatcher could have done that as well.

I never voted for her, her party, their disgraceful policies or the arrogant lack of empathy they showed; 'Out of work? Hard times? Get on yer bike and find some!!' (Tebbit)

I remember the local East Kent miners trying to demonstrate against oil deliveries to Ramsgate, and how they were put down, and I remember the scandal when we discovered that coal (mined by children) was being imported from a South American country. I remember all that.

But looking at the person, and her guts, I would like to give her respect at this time.

Ok, I all I said was that you aren't going to find much respect for Thatcher outside of the UK.

One extra point.......

Margaret Thatcher,the first woman to rise in politics to become Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, an outstanding stride in Equality for all.

And you, a feminist (I believe?) , have totally ignored that fact?

No, I haven't totally ignored that fact, but I haven't brought it up because gender isn't a distinguishing factor for how policies are criticized. Do you think that males who are feminists that think all females are clear of all wrong-doing or something or was this red herring just to try to prove a point from one thread in another.

 

[oldbadger]

Which is very different than 'respect,' which is the term we were just using until goal posts were moved.

Hello again!

Ok, I all I said was that you aren't going to find much respect for Thatcher outside of the UK.

Oh yeah? Just wait to see who attends her funeral!

No, I haven't totally ignored that fact, but I haven't brought it up because gender isn't a distinguishing factor for how policies are criticized. Do you think that males who are feminists that think all females are clear of all wrong-doing or something or was this red herring just to try to prove a point from one thread in another.

What rubbish is this? There was me, talking about outstanding individual achievement, and you try this nonesense? My posts on this thread, stand up on this thread!

Margaret Thatcher held office for 11 years thru three searate Parliaments, the longest office held in the 20th century. Chew on that and tell me that she did not deserve respect, regardless of her politics. Our opposition leader gave her just that ovation in Parliament today.

 

[dust1n]

Hello again!

Hello, not going to address the moving of the goal posts, or?

Oh yeah? Just wait to see who attends her funeral!

Ok... :tick tock, tick tock:

What rubbish is this? There was me, talking about outstanding individual achievement, and you try this nonesense? My posts on this thread, stand up on this thread!

Margaret Thatcher held office for 11 years thru three searate Parliaments, the longest office held in the 20th century. Chew on that and tell me that she did not deserve respect, regardless of her politics. Our opposition leader gave her just that ovation in Parliament today.

Sorry I don't respect people for climbing to the top. If you are a politician, I respect you because of your advancements for people, not just for the fact that you are a politician.

But again, keep moving goal posts.

 

[Alceste]

I agree; it was not human.

£11m to bury her!!!!!??? Funny how national poverty prevents so much, but when we need £11m to bury a body it's not a problem. Em cufk.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised the public has to pay for her funeral at all regardless of the price. Can't her estate afford it?

 

[England my lionheart]

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised the public has to pay for her funeral at all regardless of the price. Can't her estate afford it?

The family are going to pay half apparently,we have to tote the bill just like the banks bailout and the great EU ******,makes me angry,especially when they have cut so many disability benefits,because,we are told,we have to knuckle under to get the economy back on track.

Basically they should have had a private ceremony,instead they are inviting trouble,the word is that there are many demo's on the day of the funeral and btw,Ding Dong the Witch is dead is at number 10 in the charts but the BBC are refusing to play it if it gets to number one.