The Two Faces of the Sabbath

[Ben Avraham]

How do you spin the term "sin offering" and the animals slaughtered for them?

I am not sure if you really understand the role of sin offerings and animal sacrifices in the Theology of Israel. First of all they are rituals aka shadows of things to come. BTW, prophetic rituals pointing to fulfillments among the People and within the near future.

The Yom Kippur for instance was prophetic until the Fall of Israel when the Assyrians took Ephraim aka the Ten Tribes Eastward through the desert into Assyria in an exile never to return. That was the fulfillment of the ritual of the Scapegoat according to Leviticus 16:9,10.

Every year by Yom Kippur, the High Priest would send the Scapegoat into the desert. The fulfillment took place when HaShem rejected Ephraim aka the Ten Tribes and confirmed Judah to remain alone as one People before the Lord forever. (Psalms 78:67-70)

Now, why Yom Kippur went on being celebrated every year to this day? The difference is in the motif. After Israel was sent as the Scapegoat to Azazel aka into Assyria and, with the return of the Jews from Babylon, Yom Kippur continued being celebrated in memory of Israel's scapegoating function to redeem Judah so that it remained as a Lamp forever in Jerusalem for the sake of David. (I Kings 11:36) Hence Isaiah 53:11 where we read, "My righteous Servant aka Israel makes the 'many' aka those of Judah righteous for theirs was the punishment that he bore." So, today, Yom Kippur is celebrated in memory, not as a prediction of things to come because they have come already when Israel redeemed Judah qua Scapegoat.

 

[omega2xx]

Indeed, HaShem sanctified us by giving us the Law; then, it is only obvious that He would not remove the Law that by which we have sought for holiness. The bondage He has freed us from is the bondage of sin and slavery.

Giving us the law did not sanctify us because we can't keep the law. Sanctification is not about getting better. The first thing God sanctified was the Sabbath and it cant improve. The word means to "set apart." God set apart the Sabbath for us to remember what He has don for us and for us to worship, praise and thank Him

If HaShem has set us free from the bondage of the Law, how do you know it and Jesus didn't?

We know it the same way little children know Jesus loves them---The Bible tells them so(Rom 6:14). What makes you think Jesus did not know that?

So, there is no other option that you are wrong and not Jesus who warned us to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31

Of course we listen to the law. The moral law has not been eliminated. That is how we know what God considers sin, but the law can't save us. If It could Jesus died in needlessly(Gal 2:21)

Again, if it was for freedom from the Law that Jesus set us free, why would he demand that we listen to "Moses" aka the Law? As I see, you are raising a barrier between Jesus and the rest of us by contradicting him.

So we would know what sins is so we can try to avoid it and confess it when we do(Rom 7:7).
The was has become our tutor to LEAD US TO Christ(Gal 3:24).

You are again contradicting Jesus because, as a Jew, he understood the prophets well enough to believe that once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9) So, nothing could symbolize bodily resurrection in the Tanach aka the gospel of Jesus.

This is not about the resurrection, it is about sanctification and the Tanach is not the gospel of Jesus.

I would be happy if you shared with me the 3 ones from the Tanach. Would you please?

I don't remember the context. When I send this post, I will go back and try to find it and then edit this post and include it.

Sorry but, I disagree with you. In Jewish Theology the day starts at evening and ends only at sunset of the next day. Don't forget that our day also has 24 hours. You must have learned this one with a "Jew-for-Baal" Send him to Elijah and he will take him down to the Valley of Kishon for some treatment. (I Kings 18:40)

That is basically what I said and I learned it from Genesis.

You have got to go metaphorical with that one. It can by no means be literal.

Again I don't remember the contest. If I can find the original, I will add it to my edit of this post.

The 3 resurrection in the OT - I Kings 17:17-24---2 Kings 4:18-37---2 Kings 13:20-21. I think we could l\also include the dry bones coming back to life.

Rev 22:5 - There will no longer be any night; and they will not have the need of the light of a lamp not hr light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them...

There is no reason not to take that verse literally.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Giving us the law did not sanctify us because we can't keep the law. Sanctification is not about getting better. The first thing God sanctified was the Sabbath and it cant improve. The word means to "set apart." God set apart the Sabbath for us to remember what He has don for us and for us to worship, praise and thank Him

Tell me Omega, can you keep the law that says, "Thou shall not kill or thou shall not steal?" Yes, so, you can keep the Law. HaShem would not give us a series of commandments that we could not keep. Trust me!

We know it the same way little children know Jesus loves them---The Bible tells them so(Rom 6:14). What makes you think Jesus did not know that?

I am the one to ask you that question. Jesus said that we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) Do you think that he did not know that you could not keep the Law? Of course he knew that you can.

Of course we listen to the law. The moral law has not been eliminated. That is how we know what God considers sin, but the law can't save us. If It could Jesus died in needlessly(Gal 2:21)

So, what laws are you talking about, the Jewish rituals? Don't worry about those! They are not for you.

So we would know what sins is so we can try to avoid it and confess it when we do(Rom 7:7).
The was has become our tutor to LEAD US TO Christ(Gal 3:24).

How could the Law lead you to Jesus and not to safety from the consequences as a result of transgressing the Law?

This is not about the resurrection, it is about sanctification and the Tanach is not the gospel of Jesus.

Tell me Omega, was Jesus a Jew or was he not? "Yes, he was a Jew." So, the Tanach was his gospel. The NT is the gospel for Christians, not for Jews.

The 3 resurrection in the OT - I Kings 17:17-24---2 Kings 4:18-37---2 Kings 13:20-21. I think we could l\also include the dry bones coming back to life.

Ezekiel's prophecy of the Dry Bones is a reference to the Jews in exile. If you read Isaiah 53:8,9, when Jews are forced into exile, it is as if they have been cutoff from the Land of the Living and graves are assigned to them among the nations. At the end of the exile, HaShem opens up those metaphorical graves and brings them back to the Land of Israel. That's what bodily resurrection is according to the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach.

Rev 22:5 - There will no longer be any night; and they will not have the need of the light of a lamp not hr light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them...There is no reason not to take that verse literally.

Really! If you honestly think Rev. 22:5 must be taken literally, the sun will no longer be in its place. How could the earth survive and even ourselves for that matter? That's why atheists make fun of us the theists.

 

[Sleeppy]

"Sabbath" denotes rest, or the cessation of work. In its origin, it is a blasphemous attribution to the Most High, in that God never ceases His work, nor does He rest, seeking refreshment.

In its portrayal, the Sabbath also retains another intellectual inefficiency, in that the Son of Man retains an ancient and innate rest and refreshment cycle, irrespective of thoughtful or superstitious designation.

 

[omega2xx]

"Sabbath" denotes rest, or the cessation of work. In its origin, it is a blasphemous attribution to the Most High, in that God never ceases His work, nor does He rest, seeking refreshment.

It certainly does mean cessation from work.

[/QUOTE]In its portrayal, the Sabbath also retains another intellectual inefficiency, in that the Son of Man retains an ancient and innate rest and refreshment cycle, irrespective of thoughtful or superstitious designation.[/QUOTE]

That is why Sabbath does not mean from physical work.. It applies to spiritual work to become acceptable to God.

 

[Sleeppy]

It certainly does mean cessation from work.

That is why Sabbath does not mean from physical work.. It applies to spiritual work to become acceptable to God.

Does rest and refreshment from spiritual fatigue, apply to an all-powerful and unchanging God?

 

[metis]

That is why Sabbath does not mean from physical work.. It applies to spiritual work to become acceptable to God.

Actually it includes some of both.

 

[omega2xx]

Does rest and refreshment from spiritual fatigue, apply to an all-powerful and unchanging God?

Of course, but if you get fatigued on Monday, sit down and Sabbath.

 

[omega2xx]

Actually it includes some of both.

Right. Many spiritual concepts also have secular meaning.

 

[metis]

Right. Many spiritual concepts also have secular meaning.

But there are also some physical restrictions on Shabbat according to Torah.

Gotta go.

 

[omega2xx]

But there are also some physical restrictions on Shabbat according to Torah.

Gotta go.

The only restriction is not to work, not to let your animals work and not to let your servants wordk.

 

[Sleeppy]

Of course,

We'll never agree.

 

[psychoslice]

Jesus kept the Sabbath, he was taken down from the cross on the eve of the Sabbath, he was risen from the grave after the Sabbath, now if the Sabbath had no more meaning to Jesus why would he keep the Sabbath, after all he never said it was done away with. I think Christians have got themselves in a corner which they cannot out from, and hence all the excuses.

I was once for many years a Seventh Day Adventist, which we kept the Sabbath, it was there right in the bible, how could you not keep it ?.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus kept the Sabbath, he was taken down from the cross on the eve of the Sabbath, he was risen from the grave after the Sabbath, now if the Sabbath had no more meaning to Jesus why would he keep the Sabbath, after all he never said it was done away with. I think Christians have got themselves in a corner which they cannot out from, and hence all the excuses.

I was once for many years a Seventh Day Adventist, which we kept the Sabbath, it was there right in the bible, how could you not keep it ?.

Saturday in pagan calendar is related to 'Saturnalia'.

did you celebrate Saturnalia as well?

 

[psychoslice]

Saturday in pagan calendar is related to 'Saturnalia'.

did you celebrate Saturnalia as well?

Sunday is a pagan day, its the day of the sun, do you keep it ?.

 

[Desert Snake]

Sunday is a pagan day, its the day of the sun, do you keep it ?.

I might, sure. The difference is that I know that the entire calendar is 'pagan', so it's pretty arbitrary. Even if I kept Saturday Sabbath, I know the calendar is pagan.

 

[psychoslice]

I might, sure. The difference is that I know that the entire calendar is 'pagan', so it's pretty arbitrary. Even if I kept Saturday Sabbath, I know the calendar is pagan.

The Jews have keep the Sabbath for many years, its still the same day, Saturday, starting from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

 

[Desert Snake]

The Jews have keep the Sabbath for many years, its still the same day, Saturday, starting from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

Yes, and that day is related to 'Saturnalia'. isn't my problem.

 

[rosends]

What about in places where the name of the day isn't Saturday? Is it related to Saturnalia in Georgia?

Days of the week in many languages

 

[Desert Snake]

What about in places where the name of the day isn't Saturday? Is it related to Saturnalia in Georgia?

Days of the week in many languages

No, it wouldn't follow in that regard.

Some calendars don't even have named days